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Old 10th July 2009, 12:40   #61
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
C+ Segment:
buyers are seeing value in the City (90% Civic for 75% price)
Am I reading this right? - The ANHC is 90% of the Civic!!! With all due respect to you Mr. Moderator, but its more like 60% of the Civic at 75% of the price. Drive both of them side by side and you will surely agree with me. Actually, leave alone driving, just sit inside the ANHC after a Civic and you will feel the difference.

Anyways, I am disappointed to see the Linea settling near the 1000 pm mark. They should bring in more powerful engines that this car deserves, especially petrol. Then it will really take the fight to the ANHC.
Good to know the Grande Punto is doing well and helping Fiat on its revival path.

Finally, the Accord has been beaten, if only for a month. The Superb really deserves to sell well. Its such a complete car at this price.

Last edited by khan_sultan : 10th July 2009 at 13:31. Reason: fixed quotes
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Old 10th July 2009, 12:47   #62
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Informative piece of analysis. Kudos to the duo.

I was a bit surprised to see that the Rhino has sole 0 nos.(Read as Zero) in the month of June ? Is ICML shutting down? Can you also throw some light on sales figures of LINEA (Since the time of Launch till June 09 and also June09 standalone numbers)?
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Old 10th July 2009, 12:54   #63
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Originally Posted by 1100D View Post
I had booked a test drive last month on the Tata website for the Safari, with 2 dealers in town. I got a prompt response via SMS, the sales personnel called me a day later, but till now the test drive hasn't happenned. I could easily drop by the dealership, but then, I decided not to. However, what I was surprised about was I received calls from Toyota dealership enquiring if I would be interested in the Innova. The timing did not seem coincidental, something fishy is going on. Could be that Tata dealer sales personell could be on the Toyota payroll.
The sales representatives of each dealer meet up during a coffee break and share information regarding prospective clients for a small fee. How do I know this?

Well, my friend used to work for one of the Hyundai dealers and he let me in on this piece of information.
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Old 10th July 2009, 12:57   #64
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Default Excellent report but.....

Excellent report but.....

why Audi is missing?????
arent they sell any ?

Wait .... Yeti is coming in Mid 2010


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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
There is currently a vaccum in the 12-20L SUV market.
The affordable SUV(s) with appeal and image are Tata Safari and Mahindra Scorpio.
For a buyer looking for something better its straight jump to 16L with the GV (petrol) or all the way to Endeavor around 20L.
If Maruti can start assembling GV here, and sell it for 11-12L in petrol version, the sales will definitely jump.
People looking for premium SUV will be willing to pay an extra 2L for honda badge, but not an extra 8L.
This is a market where there exists a vaccum since so many years.
Currently we have sedans and hatches to cover all tastes and budgets, but in the SUV segment, either you are 8-10L kind of customer or a 16L+ kind of customer.
People with 12-14L to spend only have the tucson and that too old stock clearance.

Another vaccum exists in the affordable 4x4 category.
MUL can work on the Gypsy, give coil springs and plonk in the multijet and some decent seats with AC and Power steering, and they will have a comfortable extremely capable offroader for 7L
This will be very popular with Bolero and UV customers not to mention off roaders! Many shy away from the gypsy due to lack of comfort and the petrol engine!

Last edited by Rudra Sen : 10th July 2009 at 13:25.
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Old 10th July 2009, 13:07   #65
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Ford's debacle is surprising but Ford has probably read the minds. They are already working on a redesigned Fiesta. Also a Corolla/Optra Competer is on the cards afaik.
Redesigned Fiesta?? News to me? Can you throw some more light on this.

AFAIK, there a new version that is getting launched - SXi Supreme, with added alloys and stuff, but not redesign.

Pls share any info that you have on this and the D-seg car from Ford, that you are talking about.

EDIT: IT's the 1.4 TDCi SXi, that i am talking about; not the petrol one.

Last edited by oss : 10th July 2009 at 13:13. Reason: Clarification
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Old 10th July 2009, 13:19   #66
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Originally Posted by 007 View Post
Excellent report but.....

why Audi is missing?????
arent they sell any ?
Audi, like their parent VW, don't share sales information.
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Old 10th July 2009, 13:26   #67
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Originally Posted by Kashish Gupta View Post
Am I reading this right? - The ANHC is 90% of the Civic!!! With all due respect to you Mr. Moderator, but its more like 60% of the Civic at 75% of the price. Drive both of them side by side and you will surely agree with me. Actually, leave alone driving, just sit inside the ANHC after a Civic and you will feel the difference.
I know that, you know that, other BHPians / enthusiasts know that. But from the typical buyers perspective:

1. The ANHC is only 10% lesser in size than the Civic.

2. Is a newer model.

3. Comes with an automatic too.

4. Has more power than they'll ever use.

5. Is a Honda sedan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandeep.mishra View Post
I was a bit surprised to see that the Rhino has sole 0 nos.(Read as Zero) in the month of June ? Is ICML shutting down?
Without a doubt, things would be very difficult for ICML. They've only sold 68 Rhinos in May, and anywhere between 150 - 250 monthly since January. You can't keep a factory running or dealers happy with these kind of numbers. Plus, why exactly would one buy a Rhino vis a vis an MUV from a more reputable manufacturer (Toyota, Mahindra or Tata)?

Quote:
Can you also throw some light on sales figures of LINEA (Since the time of Launch till June 09 and also June09 standalone numbers)?
Dec 08 : 131
Jan 09 : 1,509
Feb 09 : 1,262
Mar 09 : 1,607
Apr 09 : 1,101
May 09 : 901
June 09 : 911

Quote:
Originally Posted by 007 View Post
Excellent report but.....

why Audi is missing?????
arent they sell any ?
They aren't willing to share numbers just yet.
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Old 10th July 2009, 13:36   #68
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I'm sorry, but I would not call it as a "Honda discount" available to anyone and everyone. The impression most people got (including myself) is that Honda is heavily discounting its cars for everyone. That was inaccurate information, plain and simple. If Citibank lowers its interest rates by 1% to Bharti-Axa HNI's, we really cannot post several messages on "Citibank discounting finance rates". That sends out the wrong message. A more appropriate way of terming this bit of news would be "Citibank's special offers ONLY to select customers".
100% Agreed. When the initial info came & posted here, there was a reference that it might be only for corporates. This was further compounded by a t-bhpian from bangalore (i think ashwinpk) who checked with a dealer Dakshin Honda & came back with additonal info that yes, its for select corporate. Then the next update came that its thro' Direct Delivery route. So, its available only for select corporates with Direct Delivery route. Thats the right message. Agreed.

May be Honda might be testing the waters as still the offer is on almost all models including Jazz (though because of Direct delivery, the dealer margins may have been apportioned which one needs to add back)

Quote:
Originally Posted by d3mon
Quick question though, do these figures represent the volume of cars moving off the showroom floor, the production by a certain manufacturer, or the dispatch of vehicles from the manufacturer to the dealer?
If I remember correctly, SIAM data is Manufacture-to-dealer sales. Am not sure though as its 5-6 years that I was using it earlier
Quote:
Originally Posted by discoverwild View Post
The sales representatives of each dealer meet up during a coffee break and share information regarding prospective clients for a small fee. How do I know this?

Well, my friend used to work for one of the Hyundai dealers and he let me in on this piece of information.
You bet! And this is not limted only to Auto Industry but generally happens across Industries

Last edited by tsk1979 : 10th July 2009 at 13:56.
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Old 10th July 2009, 13:54   #69
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Originally Posted by VahanPujari View Post
May be Honda might be testing the waters as still the offer is on almost all models including Jazz (though because of Direct delivery, the dealer margins may have been apportioned which one needs to add back)
VP - Honda always hand special offers for corporates. And not just Honda most companies have offers for select corporates - its there for most companies i have checked with - Toyota, Huyndai, Maruti,Mitsu.

In 2008, NHC corporate discount was 25-30K (later up to 40K when ANHC was coming) and for Civic it was 40K. For ANHC, it had corporate discount of 15K from Day 1 of launch. Since the prices were jacked up by about 35-40 K later, i believe the new offer will make corporate sales around the same price as it was before Mar 09.
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Old 10th July 2009, 14:09   #70
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VP - Honda always hand special offers for corporates. And not just Honda most companies have offers for select corporates - its there for most companies i have checked with - Toyota, Huyndai, Maruti,Mitsu.

In 2008, NHC corporate discount was 25-30K (later up to 40K when ANHC was coming) and for Civic it was 40K. For ANHC, it had corporate discount of 15K from Day 1 of launch. Since the prices were jacked up by about 35-40 K later, i believe the new offer will make corporate sales around the same price as it was before Mar 09.
Yes, Agreed. All companies come out with corporate offers from time-to-time. The only difference this time it seems (as far as I know - and I may be wrong & would stand corrected if its otherwise) is that the discounts really looks attractive especially that its not stock-clearance offer like NHC.
BTW, I think we're reading too much on this Honda offer (I blame myself). Lets move on, this is my last post on this topic
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Old 10th July 2009, 14:53   #71
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Originally Posted by d3mon View Post
@GTO and vasudeva

First of all, Thanks!!

Quick question though, do these figures represent the volume of cars moving off the showroom floor, the production by a certain manufacturer, or the dispatch of vehicles from the manufacturer to the dealer?

This would certainly shed some light on the surprising no. of cars sold/produced/dispatched for a certain 'Not so serious®' car.
I think these are primary sales numbers, i.e. sale of cars from manufacturer to dealers. I have verified Vasudev's Numbers with the numbers on the website of Maruti and they tally. So these must be primary sales

What is interesting, is to note that, barring Maruti and to a small extent Hyundai, Ford and GM, all other mfrs have grown over May 2009. Maruti has degrown by 12.7% over may 2009. It must be the effect of the 1 week maintenance shut down in may I guess

Last edited by nurni76 : 10th July 2009 at 14:56. Reason: error in sentence
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Old 10th July 2009, 17:20   #72
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Originally Posted by VahanPujari View Post
Its only for select corporates with Direct delivery from Honda. Still some dealers seem to know it as confirmed by some banglore t-bhpian (who seems to even know the names of corporates also) from dakshin honda here on another thread
Can any of the informed guys share (say PM) the details. A colleague of mine is looking at civic/altis and would very well settle on civic if the discount thingy is true.
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Old 11th July 2009, 02:09   #73
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Without a doubt, things would be very difficult for ICML. They've only sold 68 Rhinos in May, and anywhere between 150 - 250 monthly since January. You can't keep a factory running or dealers happy with these kind of numbers. Plus, why exactly would one buy a Rhino vis a vis an MUV from a more reputable manufacturer (Toyota, Mahindra or Tata)?
.
Arent these the numbers for deliveries to dealers?

One they are gearing up for a small car launch next year(delayed by a around a year).
Two, they are upgrading the RHIno. Maybe that' the reason no deliveries were made.

more information here. http://www.icml.co.in/eng/news/by2009.pdf
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/1197273-post754.html
International Cars & Motor Ltd


What's up with the tavera?

Quote:
Originally Posted by oss View Post
Redesigned Fiesta?? News to me? Can you throw some more light on this.

AFAIK, there a new version that is getting launched - SXi Supreme, with added alloys and stuff, but not redesign.

Pls share any info that you have on this and the D-seg car from Ford, that you are talking about.

EDIT: IT's the 1.4 TDCi SXi, that i am talking about; not the petrol one.
A redesigned upgraded Fiesta is on the cards but no confirmed release dates yet. A hatch is still sometime away. A civic contender (Focus?) is supposed to be released in the 3rd-4th quarter this year. This was also confirmed by their PR during the Autoexpo.
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Old 11th July 2009, 09:09   #74
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I just checked up the figures for the no of sedans sold by MSIL in May 09.It was 6782. As per Autocar, MSIL sold 6045 Dzires in the same month. That puts the sales of the SX4 at 737. That is a long way off from what it used to sell about a year ago.

MSIL needs to launch the SX4 Diesel real fast if it wants to maintain and grow market share in this segment. With the petrol prices rising again the sales of petrol sedans perceived to be low on fuel efficiency are bound to suffer.

Now that it has done with all its new launches, MSIL should have a look at providing more and better ( including diesel) engine options to the public. CNG and LPG can only offer limited options as these fuels are not widely available.

Linea, Fiesta and Verna all have the diesel variants outselling their petrol cousins by a large margin. Even the luxury cars like BMW, Mercedes and Audi sell a very high number of diesels. Indian junta cleary prefers diesels.
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Old 11th July 2009, 21:15   #75
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IMHO, GM India’s CEO Karl Slym did a fantastic job of managing the PR surrounding GM’s bankruptcy. Instead of playing avoidance, he took the news head on, gave long interviews to anyone in the media who was willing to listen, and personally appeared in ads & on their website.
EXACTLY. I'm of the same opinion too. I quite admire the way they've projected him as being fully responsible. Atleast they're trying to set things right, and that's worthy of applause.

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
• The Toyota Corolla Altis retains its position as champion of the C+ segment with 714 sales; its not hard to see why. Practicality inside out, excellent after-sales, healthy taxi sales (tourist) take the Corolla to the top. In fact, Altis seems to be the only car posting extraordinary growth in 6/2009. Lean times mean less flashy cars perhaps???

• The Honda Civic resurges, but only just so much, finishing off June with 451 cars. While MOM sales are up 102.2% (May was terribly low), YOY sales have crashed by 59%. Clearly, buyers are seeing value in the City (90% Civic for 75% price), or across direct better equipped competition like the Altis.
Quote:
• Surprises at the 20 lakh point. Firstly, the premium sedan segment has crashed by approximately 46% (20 lakh+ sedans). The Superb outsells the Accord for the first time, but only just (212 Superbs versus 205 Accords). Clearly, the Superb is an outstanding sedan (hatch), filled to the brim with goodies and with a delicious price tag. I’m certain she’d be good for atleast 400 cars in the market, if it weren’t for the lousy Indian customer service + Skoda’s reputation. That said, the Superb is a 40 lakh car for half the price. I mean, even if you steal 10 lakh rupees worth of parts, one still ends up with a 30 lakh car for 20 lakhs. Okay, okay, PJ I know.
Quote:
• The stupendously handsome 7 series finally takes the fight to India’s favorite 1 crore sedan : Merc’s S Class. The 7 and the S sold an identical 40 cars each in June. 3 of those 7 series belong to BHPians . For the 7th month in a row in 2009, BMW has overall outsold Mercedes Benz.
Very happy to hear the above. And LOL (Superb)
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