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Old 12th July 2009, 14:46   #46
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Originally Posted by nurni76 View Post
You just mention the word Fiat and you have hundreds of fans pouncing on the thread.
It is really very curious, this kind of response that is almost rabid in intensity, in a kind of "us v the rest of the world" way. Be an interesting subject to dwell on, by itself!
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Old 12th July 2009, 14:56   #47
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Originally Posted by autocarcr View Post
Cars filled with the best technology (better than ANY car this side of 11 lakhs- bet you),

best engines (the claims of GP and Linea being underpowered is UTTER RUBBISH and Bull- I own a Linea for heavens sake and I should know better- I am a car enthusiast and love to dry free revving cars.)
I ll take you up on BOTH your claims

1) Better tech in every way , in what context?? AFAIK, except the BLuetooth integration thingy, everything else is available on other cars as well.

2) If you think Linea is not underpowered, I think your and my definition of adequate power is VERY different. Linea is beautiful to look at and has an excellent ride, but the car BEGS for a 1.6 L engine.

Last edited by AbhiJ : 12th July 2009 at 15:02.
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Old 12th July 2009, 15:07   #48
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Originally Posted by nurni76 View Post
You just mention the word Fiat and you have hundreds of fans pouncing on the thread.
It is applicable the other way too, the way Fiat haters pounce on the fiat thread!
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Old 12th July 2009, 15:57   #49
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As a few have already stated, this has turned into a Fiat Bashing thread. If someone does not want to buy FIATs then that's their prerogative. But then bashing all other brands just to justify what you did is the right thing in the world is "NOT RIGHT".

Objective discussion on a product is fine but mindlessly bashing a product / brand is very childish.

@Nurni76: What is your version of reality? You want to discuss Sales Figures lets do that. Car Sales Figures and Product are two different things altogether and doesn't anyways make sense.

I'm a Fiat Customer with both the Uno and Palio in my stable and being a FIAT owner I think I know the A S S better and from much closer quarters than non FIAT owners. Owning one's self and hearing ownership stories from Uncle, Aunty, Chacha, Tau, Bhatija, Neighbour, neighbour's realtive and all that similar is mere hearsay.

Sawyer, you have a problem with your Palio, please create an ownership thread with the hardships and difficulties faced by you and may be people can help you on that.

I think its time this discussion be stopped as there doesn't seem to be any aim of the thread apart from bashing a brand ( The Title does so). Hence request mods to close this thread.
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Old 12th July 2009, 16:01   #50
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No car/manufacturer is perfect. Low FE, high maintenance, bad before / after sale, on board equipments, seating, legroom, headroom, bootspace, low GC, bad handling, rattling, less perfomance, low reasle value, etc, etc, the list is endless.

Some put up with minor things. Others complain loudly. People have different preceptions.

Buying a car a matter of heart or brain. Its the combination of the two which creates all the trouble.

A person following the heart will buy a GP (or any car of his dreams), no questions asked.

Those following the brain will weigh all options, decide which is the best one based on the priorites they have (may be FE, low maintenance, VFM, etc).

Those who are torn between the heart and the brain, are in lot of uncertainness. Want buy his dream car; but has doubt what would happen after 3 years, would the resale value be good, would it be reliable after a couple of years, etc.

There are people still buying ambassadors, there are people who would buy only a maruti, there are people who are loyal to honda. People are diverse. Everyone has a reason/s for making a decission.

IMHO people opting of fiats have weighed their options, feels that fiat will not let them down, and are happy with the ownership.
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Old 12th July 2009, 16:29   #51
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Originally Posted by nurni76 View Post
I think this is just another Fiat Vs other cars thread as usual. You just mention the word Fiat and you have hundreds of fans pouncing on the thread .Just selling 3000 cars out of a Lakh cars sold in a month despite being in India for the last 9 years tells the story
Well, isnt it the other way round? Non Fiat owners stand by with their sticks and asap a Fiat bashing thread is created they bash Fiat as much as they can. When 200 people can bash Fiat why cant 100 fans protect it? What was the result of this thread -- fiat v/s others and some members getting infracted . Regarding a mere 3000 units sales, isnt it better compared to 400-500 last year. All know they provided poor service a few years back and agree but those who dont own a fiat and hear horror stories from tau, chachas will never understand things have changed.
They will bash fiat as much as possible and even say they sold a measly 3000 cars but didnt give the same comment last year when they sold much lesser 500 cars. Why? Are we unhappy with Fiat's success? Why?

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GP and Linea are good cars, but not the ones which one can buy with peace of mind atleast in India. Current owners will definitely resist this statement, but sorry folks this is the truth.Changing perceptions is not easy.
Why not peace of mind? Just because tauji and chachaji told fiat is bad? Come to reality, see threads where people complained to Fiat even about explaining car features and they came rushing to homes to explain it. If you believe in horror stories of Unos and Palios then noone can help you.

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If it is mass then Fuel efficiency is extremely important. In an effort to meet these, GP has got really underperforming engines. Unlike Japanese cars which are light weight, Fiat is built like a Tank and obviously laws of Physics aint aiding fuel efficiency. So I feel therefore they still haven't got their act right
Ok you want FE and also want a superfast engine with a 1190 kg weighing car. Only Maruti and Hyundai may make it possible i guess. You mean to increase FE Fiat should have used thinner sheet metal and reduced weight. Why? Why is Skoda famous for its build quality- tough body and you want to remove it for FE. Fiat got its act right, instead of compromising on safety Fiat compromised on less FE and thats good. I wish they had put in VGT but many would have said its a very poor fuel efficient engine

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I just hope that they think and act right and atleast touch 5% market share. This will definitely benefit an average Indian like me as better competition is ultimately going to benefit the end consumers.
At 5% market share Fiat would go ahead of Honda and Toyota, wouldnt it be impossible with a poor A.S.S and underperforming engines? It would be hard to digest for many. Still with FIAT's poor reputations with Uncles and chachas , Fiat has surpassed Ford india with 1.8% market share.

Last edited by coolboy007 : 12th July 2009 at 16:32.
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Old 12th July 2009, 16:53   #52
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My responses in bold below. I personally am not against Fiat succeeding in India since that is only going to make us end consumers benefit more, but I do believe Fiat needs to do a lot more to succeed
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Originally Posted by coolboy007 View Post
Are we unhappy with Fiat's success? Why?

Why should I be unhappy. As i said it is we who will benefit if a company succeeds. Merely saying it is a success just because it sells 3000 over last years 500 is not right. It needs to be proven a period of time in India

Why not peace of mind? Just because tauji and chachaji told fiat is bad? Come to reality, see threads where people complained to Fiat even about explaining car features and they came rushing to homes to explain it. If you believe in horror stories of Unos and Palios then noone can help you.

Who are Tauji and chachaji? Just read through a number of Fiat owners' horror stories in this forum and you will understand


Ok you want FE and also want a superfast engine with a 1190 kg weighing car. Only Maruti and Hyundai may make it possible i guess. You mean to increase FE Fiat should have used thinner sheet metal and reduced weight. Why? Why is Skoda famous for its build quality- tough body and you want to remove it for FE. Fiat got its act right, instead of compromising on safety Fiat compromised on less FE and thats good. I wish they had put in VGT but many would have said its a very poor fuel efficient engine

So you mean to say MAruti and Hyundai are less safe than Fiat. Come on guys grow up. Just because a car is built heavy doesnt mean it is safer than other cars. Even i20 has 5 star rating in safety. Also Skoda is a wrong example. I dont think it is really competing in the mass segment where as I had mentioned Fuel efficiency is important.



At 5% market share Fiat would go ahead of Honda and Toyota, wouldnt it be impossible with a poor A.S.S and underperforming engines? It would be hard to digest for many. Still with FIAT's poor reputations with Uncles and chachas , Fiat has surpassed Ford india with 1.8% market share.
Great if you wanna compare with ford in India and be happy so be it
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Old 12th July 2009, 16:58   #53
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Just because I bought a Fiat makes me a "fiat fan" ?
I had a zen previously, and I didn't go with the herd to buy a maruti again.
I evaluated the best car in my budget and bought a Fiat (best VFM)

We as TBHPians should set high standards when evaluating cars by their features/performance and VFM. And not on brand perceptions or what so and so chacha told about some brand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nurni76 View Post
You just mention the word Fiat and you have hundreds of fans pouncing on the thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawyer View Post
It is really very curious, this kind of response that is almost rabid in intensity, in a kind of "us v the rest of the world" way. Be an interesting subject to dwell on, by itself!
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Old 12th July 2009, 17:16   #54
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PLS visit the thread Interview with RAJEEV KAPOOR CEO OF FIAT on this forum!
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Old 12th July 2009, 17:54   #55
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Interesting thread.

This time around I feel that FIAT is making an earnest effort as far as the Indian Market is concerned. Explanations discussed to death in this forum. Period. So why draw comparisons to the past and wish doom for FIAT?

You love FIAT Cars --> Great
You don't trust FIAT A.*.* and chose a Hyundai --> Your Prerogative based on real life experiences. Congratulations!
Generalising FIAT as a failure forever --> Why boss? Is it needed?

I'm one who doesn't want companies like Ford (I own a Ikon) and FIAT to fall flat in India for a small selfish reason that they make cars which are an ABSOLUTE FUN TO DRIVE and AFFORADABLE TO BUY (<10 Lakh INR). And yes I don't deny the fact that my Ikon is PAINFULLY EXPENSIVE TO MAINTAIN. But Ford offers Extended warranty now and their A.S.S atleast in Chennai is good. For FIAT enough already said.Seems they are improving.

So why don't we just wait for the market to respond to FIAT's new innings? Why do we have to behave as if FIAT is a run-by-night Finance Company trying to rob the gulliable public! Give me a break.

Lets keep our discussions sensible and lets not chase away people trying to get some valuable info from these threads!

P.S: One thing I notice is that, atleast the FIAT Fanboys (I hate to use that word though) put their money where their mouth is. Quite a good number of them own/booked the Linea/Punto. Even I'm of the same tribe. Inspite of my parents and wife being against I still don't sell my Ikon and my next car will be a Fiesta.

Last edited by kiku007 : 12th July 2009 at 18:01.
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Old 12th July 2009, 18:08   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nurni76
Merely saying it is a success just because it sells 3000 over last years 500 is not right. It needs to be proven a period of time in India
Am not saying you are only unhappy, sorry if you got it wrong. You gave the answer yourself, it needs to be proven over time, then give time na, why are we in a hurry to pass verdict whether Fiat will succeed or fail. Once sales tick in Fiat will introduce VGT (CEO said its a possibility) in Punto and then this underpowered tag may come to an end.

Quote:
Who are Tauji and chachaji? Just read through a number of Fiat owners' horror stories in this forum and you will understand
Taujis and chachas are your relatives who easily say this company will survive or not. Regarding horror stories, well if you mean Palio then taujis are here to help telling how Palio owners dont get spares etc whereas members who own S10 here never complained about spare unavailability.
Did i miss any Linea horror story except small niggles? Is any Linea owner here stranded with his car lying in service centre because of parts unavailability? I dont think so.


Quote:
Just because a car is built heavy doesnt mean it is safer than other cars. Even i20 has 5 star rating in safety. Also Skoda is a wrong example. I dont think it is really competing in the mass segment where as I had mentioned Fuel efficiency is important.
Regarding i20, please see its gross weight. Its very very near to Punto's 1190 kg weight. Believe it or not, am not saying safety totally depends on sheet metal but its indeed a part of safety of any car. A solid built car will show its build just by closing doors. Why is Skoda a wrong example Isnt FABIA a hatchback? For FE Maruti is there, those who want solid build with feature loaded car Punto is there.
As Maruti cant provide everything in 1 car ( solid build, FE, powerful engines, feature loaded car, great handling and most imp decent pricing) why do we expect all this from Fiat?
i20 has everything, i mean everything with 1.4 crdi engine but 90k over Punto, its for a customer to decide what he wants.

Quote:
Great if you wanna compare with ford in India and be happy so be it
Whats wrong wih Ford India? They have 2 nice cars, Fiesta 1.6 and Ikon tdci, they arent bankrupt, their reputation isnt as bad in India as Fiat's is, people dont say we dont to buy Fiesta because its a Ford and they arent bashed as badly as Fiat is.
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Old 12th July 2009, 18:12   #57
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Originally Posted by ImmortalZ View Post
Sawyer, the only people who have problems with FIAT are people who have never owned one. Since you have owned one, your points are wrong, you are here probably under payola from Honda or Hyundai and have come to these hallowed forums to tarnish the image of this great Italian company who give us Maseratis for the price of SEATs, the best customer service north of Ferrari and build quality which will save you when a full cargo container is dropped on you at speed.

BEGONE, INTERLOPER!
Keep your sarcasm aside, and you would realize that whatever you have written above is true. How else do you think that:

Whenever you talk about FIAT A.S.S. you compare it with Maruti and Hyundai and not with FORD, HONDA or SKODA?

Whenever you talk about FIAT quality, you compare it with HONDA and SKODA and not with Maruti and TATA?

Whenever you talk about Punto FE, you compare it with Swift and not with Vista, Fabia or i10?

When you talk about VFM factor of FIAT you always compare it with Maruti and not with Hyundai, Honda or SKODA.

When you talk about performance of the MJD you only compare it with Hyundai 1.5 CRDI and not with FORD 1.4 Duratorq or the SKODA 1.4 PD.
 
Old 12th July 2009, 18:34   #58
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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
1) The matter here is quality. We have never seen such quality things happening in our Maruti 800 and Baleno. Never, not the driveshaft to say the least. GP is a new car in India ( if my memory serves me good ), so definitely the car cannot be more than 2-3 months old. And if they have this much rust in underbody, this speaks a thing or two about quality of parts. That is what I wanted to indicate.

2) Overall, I wanted to hint at the entire range of engines on offer. If GP is offering very good FE, they compromise on performance. If they offer performance, they compromise on FE. Why cant they come up with a perfect blend like others have ? And the petrol is not going to give good results as far as FE and performance are in discussion. This is not the best combination of body and engine. Swift is in a league of its own when we consider the blend of performance and FE, and this is one of the reasons for its popularity.

3) My point was that Fiat has made some very serious and bad cost cutting moves. That is all what I wanted to indicate. Lets not take things over the board. All my point is that Fiat has made too many cost cutting moves which is not good for Fiat and its image of producing good quality ( atleast the chassis and interior build quality ) cars.

4) Their single engine i.e. SDE is successful that too because others could calibrate better than what Fiat could do. Also others could make it more silent, isint that surprising ? If we take out Swift and Dzire, how many units are selling of that diesel ?
And for the time being, most of the cars sold in India are petrol and they are japanese. Fiat cannot beat this fact.


Overall, the only point I am trying to make here is that with GP, they have made compromise specially due to cost cutting moves. My uncle has 1.9D Palio and let me tell you he told me palio is better built than GP! This is his 8th car and till now he has driven a lot in Saurashtra and A'bad ( read highway driving ).
Moreover the combination of motors + heavy car weight is not good. They are really not in favor of car's image.

And why is Fiat not able to explain why they are not controlling A.S & S. ? Any logical explanation ? What excuse they can give, we are not able to manage ? Means they are not ready to listen to customer. Fiat cars are generally given negative treatment at Tata dealer ships and this is proven. I have personally experienced this. If tata just about barely manages to serve its own cars, how are they able to handle Fiat cars ? Do they have knowledge and infrastructure ?
1) Maruti quality? Honestly, what is that? I ocassionally drive a Swift, which is Maruti's flagship model. While driving, I have to make the stereo work very hard, to distract me from the pandemonium created by the rattling parts.

2) Really? When did Swift start becoming the benchmark of Performance? Does it require more than common sense to understand that a heavier car will be lower on performance compared to a lighter car with a similar engine? FIAT cars are built with a heavier gauge steel than a Maruti and that is why it is heavy. Doesn't that explain why a Swift has scored 4 stars in the NCAP crash tests while the Punto has got 5?

3) FIAT has done loads of cost cutting to keep the price down. Didn't it surprise you when they priced the Punto at 3.99L? Did you think that the Italian govt is subsidising FIAT cars in India? But seriously, is the quality in any way worse than an equivalent Maruti (Swift)?

4) Do you mean to say that FIAT could build a world class engine and could not 'calibrate' it well, which Maruti was able to do? And do you really think that the DDiS is more silent? You just step out of the car and listen to the engine. It is just that FIAT has not sorted out the NVH of the Punto well. Not that Maruti has installed an "extra" silencer on that engine.

The Palio is not just better built than the Punto, it is better built than a whole bunch of Marutis, Hondas and Hyundais with price tags twice as that of the Palio. Those days, the dumbos compared the price of the Palio with the Santros and WagonRs and declared that the Palio was overpriced. Nobody had anything to say about Palio's build quality. This time FIAT has decided to give the Indians what they deserve; mediocrity; that is all. But then the funny part is, they did not succeed this time too, because no one can beat Maruti when it comes to mediocrity.

Last edited by ashwinpak : 12th July 2009 at 18:38.
 
Old 12th July 2009, 18:49   #59
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Originally Posted by ashwinpak View Post
1) This time FIAT has decided to give the Indians what they deserve; mediocrity; that is all. But then the funny part is, they did not succeed this time too, because no one can beat Maruti when it comes to mediocrity.
As a fellow Indian, I have to sadly acknowledge the statement about us deserving mediocrity in a slightly different context. Are we willing to ourselves go the extra mile to convert a 90% chalta hai effort into one that is complete and flawless? How can we then stake a claim to something better?
I also see the biting wit in the comment about how Fiat has not been able to beat Maruti in the mediocrity game - one of the most telling and insightful comments of the day in my book.
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Old 12th July 2009, 18:59   #60
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Originally Posted by finneyp View Post
I don't understand the intention of this thread?
Me too, seems like many among us are developing i-am-bored-today, let-me-bash-FIAT syndrome :(

Quote:

It looks like thread-starter is giving his justification for buying a i20!
Congrats mate! Enjoy your car!
Yes, congrats mate, do write ownership report.
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