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Old 14th July 2009, 09:14   #16
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One small thing I would like to post here.

I have observed that on single lane roads ( often they are highways ) when we are overtaking HCV, LCV we must have maintained atlesat 15 feet distance between the truck and ourselves. If the speeds are below 40 kmph, its fine to have very little distance, but generally we must keep distance.

What people do is this : Even at speeds above 40 kmph, mostly in the range of 80 kmph, they are very near to the tail of truck. As soon as other vehicle passes by they come out and overtake. Now there are chances that somebody might be trying to overtake someone else in opposite direction too. What this leads to is disaster. Both the vehicles that are trying to overtake will endup in a crash. If we have maintained some space, this gives us better view if anybody else is trying to make overtaking maneuver in the lane of oncoming vehicles or not.

I almost ended up crashing head on with HCV last month. Thanks to reflexes and car, we were saved. Dont let frustration get onto you if you are not able to overtake any HCV quickly.

About TBHP officially starting some move, I think we are aware of safety and we can initiate this move of making others aware by talking to family members, friends, etc. I dont think we need some sort of step behind it. Also if self discipline is observed, the best results can be achieved.
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Old 14th July 2009, 09:29   #17
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While on HCVs, what needs reform is the totally confusing system of trucks blinking their right indicators when they wish you to overtake and also using the same blinkers when they want to turn right too!

Continuing what aaggoswami said, if you have to overtake, do not go behind another vehicle which is already overtaking. Typically, he may be running headlong onto an incoming vehicle, but has enough room to get back to his lane, but you, the vehicle behind will crash into the oncoming vehicle because you cannot see it till it is too late.
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Old 14th July 2009, 09:38   #18
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We all can brain storm and come up with the ten things that are mandatory for every driver to follow. People on this form will by and large stick to them. Will that bring about the change we all want? Not sure and probably not. For a change to happen, we need to target the bottom of the pyramid and not the top.

The real challenge - how are we going to get all the other drives to follow simple rules.

Let us be clear that without policing, there is no society in this world that would follow 100% rules as they are supposed to. People in developed countries follow rules because they know that they are being watched and any violation is dealt with penalty right there. Until we have such a system in place, we cannot improve the overall condition.

I personally feel that we are trying to re-invent the wheel here by coming up with new rules. As I see, we have all the rules that we need to make our roads safe, and all that is missing is enforcement.

Last edited by muralisk : 14th July 2009 at 09:42.
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Old 14th July 2009, 13:10   #19
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When it comes to road safety/safe driving, I feel we (Team-BHP members) are not better than average Indian drivers. There is a thread about safe driving started on 31 December 2008 and it had a natural death within 24 hours. So far 320 members/guests have checked it. Accidents in India thread have been visited by more 442K+.
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Old 14th July 2009, 13:33   #20
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Originally Posted by muralisk View Post

The real challenge - how are we going to get all the other drives to follow simple rules.

I personally feel that we are trying to re-invent the wheel here by coming up with new rules. As I see, we have all the rules that we need to make our roads safe, and all that is missing is enforcement.
+1 to that, its not about the rules, its about understanding the rules and the importance of it as to why it is in place. Apart from the rules, accidents, crashes happen due to various other factors; to name a few,

1. Increase in population, still a section of people dwell on pavements
2. Basic education doesnt teach you behavioural skills
3. Corruption - name anything, you see corruption in it.
4. Politicians - they think they are the lords and the foolish followers prove that right.

This is kind of a butterfly effect, traffic stoppage due to a political rally, causing traffic jams leading to frustrated drivers, these frustrated drivers lose concentration and causing accidents - this is just to give a sample. The awareness has to be cultivated right from the childhood stage to bring in a change, I understand that this cannot be done overnight but needs to be done over a generation.
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Old 16th July 2009, 20:03   #21
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Originally Posted by All Terrain View Post
When it comes to road safety/safe driving, I feel we (Team-BHP members) are not better than average Indian drivers.
Strongly agree! I have seen umpteen vehicles in Pune with Team-BHP stickers on them flouting traffic rules and caring 2 hoots about other vehicles on the road. So, let's not have a holier than thou attitude w.r.t non Team-BHP ians here.

@Sawyer - If you really want to walk the talk, check out the website for Save Pune Traffic Movement on the net. A simple Google search will get you there.

Cheers,
Vikram
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Old 18th July 2009, 06:27   #22
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Strongly agree! I have seen umpteen vehicles in Pune with Team-BHP stickers on them flouting traffic rules and caring 2 hoots about other vehicles on the road.
I am not surprised to hear this, but I did not say it because I have not personally witnessed the stickers on such cars. But I would not be surprised at all because in many if not the most cases as a percentage, educated Indians are just as culpable as the ones we look down upon, indeed, for those, being uneducated is a valid excuse. The problem is that in India, we do not have a sense of community. I come first, then my immediate family, and then, sometimes, my extended family. The rest of the world can go to the devil, as long as I am ok. And if my being ok means I have to climb and trample over my fellow citizens to be so, that is how life was designed to be.
You see this attitude on the roads, you see it in homes. In homes it takes the form of keeping my house clean, and throwing the trash over the balcony to do so.
The sense of community is a lot stronger in other countries, where we behave of course when we go there, because the one thing we respect is enforcement that is non negotiable - that scares the hell out of us, and keeps us in line like nursery children.
So in that sense the safety on the roads subject truly is one that is changing of our culture in general, the way we behave with each other everywhere is just the way we do on the roads. How could it really be otherwise?
Does that mean that this is a hopeless task? Of course not - but I think it is truly one where the change has to start with me, for each one of us. Not the usual blaming the politicians, blaming the police, blaming the road makers, blaming the person in the next car... that is our favorite pasttime.
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Old 18th July 2009, 12:12   #23
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I really dont think this is going to help in improving the driving experiance in INDIA. What needs to be done is that our kids need to be taught of these things in schools itself. Also when people learn to drive a vehicle there should be proper exams which they should pass before they are given their driving licenses.
These things have to be taught at a very early age. Our education system needs to have a subject called ROAD SAFETY,where they should be taught Driving Etiquetts. Who knows,maybe this will change or may not change anything.
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Old 18th July 2009, 12:51   #24
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Originally Posted by Sawyer View Post
.........But it would never have been built if the bricklayers had not laid the first brick, then the next, and so on. And not given up on starting, by being awed at the size of the endeavour...........
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....we behave of course when we go there, because the one thing we respect is enforcement that is non negotiable - that scares the hell out of us, and keeps us in line like nursery children........
Sawyer, you make a couple of very valid points here.

It boils down to strength of character. Persons who are tough enough to make a start at improving their driving style and keep at it without thinking "What's the use? One person won't make a difference and it will take too long", will also have the character to stay in line even if the enforcement is not always as effective as it should be.

I have heard people brag about doing 15 km in peak city traffic in less than 30 minutes by being willing to take risks, cut lanes, drive on the wrong side, take their bikes up on the pavement and similar rubbish and that they have never been in an accident. I wonder if they realise that many problems others face are often caused by this "me first" attitude from people like them. Unfortunately only some of them will run out of luck and the lucky ones will never realise it.

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......Does that mean that this is a hopeless task? Of course not - but I think it is truly one where the change has to start with me, for each one of us......
I think there is hope too, as long as there are at least a few people who are concerned enough about it to try and make a difference. Will probably take quite some time but it can happen.
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Old 18th July 2009, 16:43   #25
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Well said, and I am looking forward to see what more people have to say on this slow moving thread - boring stuff, ain't it, safety?!
The other thing that the me first people do not stop to think is that they may have created an accident and not just problems in their wake by their behaviour - but then, if they did so stop, they would not be me first people now, would they?!
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Old 18th July 2009, 18:59   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by All Terrain View Post
When it comes to road safety/safe driving, I feel we (Team-BHP members) are not better than average Indian drivers. There is a thread about safe driving started on 31 December 2008 and it had a natural death within 24 hours. So far 320 members/guests have checked it. Accidents in India thread have been visited by more 442K+.
A lot of car enthusiasts, especially the young ones, will put safety on the back seat, and make it less important than enjoying driving. Further, like youngsters in many things, they drive according to an excess of confidence, not according to a realistic, educated assessment of their actual abilities.

In fact, never mind "young"! Many of us do this, at least sometimes, in our driving lives.

We see very well misunderstandings here, such as taking greater risk because the letters "ABS" are stuck on the car.

What Team-BHP does do, I'm sure, is to spread education and awareness.

One safe-driving thread may not have received a great deal of attention; others, I am sure, do. The Highway Etiquette thread is a regular in the new-posts list, and has as much to do with safety as it has to do with good manners.

As I posted on the Accidents thread, I find that occasional contemplation of the idea of smashed glass and mangled metal has a very good effect on my driving. When members post there. or elsewhere, about their own accidents, members are not shy of pointing out mistakes, or that it is likely to have been the driver, not the car, at fault.

I think that Team-BHP helps a great deal.

In the wider picture, safety education, road awareness and good driving must be taught from youth, it must begin, as anupminda says, in school. Driving tests must be made proper tests of ability and rules must be enforced. It is the work of several generations, and, unfortunately it has not even begun yet.
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Old 18th July 2009, 19:45   #27
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Further, like youngsters in many things, they drive according to an excess of confidence, not according to a realistic, educated assessment of their actual abilities.

In fact, never mind "young"! Many of us do this, at least sometimes, in our driving lives.




In the wider picture, safety education, road awareness and good driving must be taught from youth, it must begin, as anupminda says, in school. Driving tests must be made proper tests of ability and rules must be enforced. It is the work of several generations, and, unfortunately it has not even begun yet.
Good comment. But here is something for us to think about - if this is the work of several generations, and it has not begun yet, does this mean that as the car densities keep rising, so will the horrendous death toll for another twenty to thirty years??? Because that is the time it will take for the younger generations to get to start to drive in larger numbers. And while they learn, what example do they get to see from the rear seats in our cars? Or from other cars on the roads? Something that reinforces that learning or just the opposite? For each of us, what is my responsibility in this matter? Am I willing to set a personal example, every day?
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Old 18th July 2009, 21:21   #28
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I can't fault your conclusion, depressing though it is.
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Old 22nd July 2009, 21:59   #29
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Just a nudge to keep this post alive, it seems to need the oxygen! I thought this subject would not excite too many people, but the response has been a lot poorer than I thought at first. One reason for the state of affairs, I imagine. People are more worked up about the ex president being frisked.
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Old 22nd July 2009, 22:53   #30
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Sawyer,

I agree with you on the points that you have brought to the fore. I truly believe that it is up to each one of us to "make that difference". When I got my license, my dad always made mention to me about defensive driving. Something that I follow religiously to this day.

Defensive driving is something that most people are unaware of. I vividly remember, a senior cop telling me "think about all the other road users when you are on the road" when I was involved in a minor accident a few years ago.

Our road infrstructure simply cannot cope with the increase in the number of vehicles and that is what leads to accidents around every corner. I've noticed that almost 90% of people who drive on Bangalore's roads seem to be in a perpetual hurry. The reason of which I cannot understand.

As muralisk has so eloquently put it, the change has to come from the bottom of the pyramid and I suppose this is the BEST place to start!

Cheers,
gpa
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