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Old 31st July 2009, 15:29   #16
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Originally Posted by gpa View Post
But wouldn't this lead to the flourishing of fake parts as more and more smaller outfits try to emulate JK?
Good point. But then the customer need to be wary of such mushrooming dealers. Caveat Emptor !

Nevertheless, even if we had such dealers selling spurious spares they may not survive in the long run for customers are far better than what they were a few years ago, to believe anything and everything.

On Honda trying to curb JK's initiative, I hope it comes under the MRTP act and puts some sense in the heads of the Honda.

Last edited by rr_zen : 31st July 2009 at 15:31.
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Old 31st July 2009, 15:30   #17
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But wouldn't this lead to the flourishing of fake parts as more and more smaller outfits try to emulate JK?
I was only writing about reliable retail spare outlets. You must be absolutely sure about his credentials. My supplier when I bought Hyundai Dampers even went to the extent of ensuring that they were of Korean and not Chinese origin (both were OE). I have been dealing with him for 30 years.
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Old 31st July 2009, 15:36   #18
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Originally Posted by rr_zen View Post
On Honda trying to curb JK's initiative, I hope it comes under the MRTP act and puts some sense in the heads of the Honda.
You are right. Honda is not going to take this lying down and I think we are set for a long drawn out legal battle in the courts.


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My supplier when I bought Hyundai Dampers even went to the extent of ensuring that they were of Korean and not Chinese origin (both were OE)
A rare gem I would say and it is very difficult to find such people, which makes me appreciate his efforts all the more.
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Old 31st July 2009, 15:40   #19
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But wouldn't this lead to the flourishing of fake parts as more and more smaller outfits try to emulate JK?
Thats a good thing as long as its OE parts and not "OE".
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Old 31st July 2009, 15:49   #20
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I beleive amongst all the cars in the market Honda, hyundai and Maruti parts are the cheapist most reasonable. Khattar should focus on the pain areas like Mercedes, Skoda, Ford also some otehr niche brand with high import content he can get a lot of business this way hitting honda whose maintaince cost and up keep is already reasonable may not be the best way. Honda anyway is not a very high volume player so he strategy does not seem to be aiming at high volume cars.
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Old 31st July 2009, 16:02   #21
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Originally Posted by rg_chn View Post
To counter this, Honda is planning to register it's trademark in India for auto components and is moving it's Thailand unit to halt supplies to Carnation auto.Honda hasn't raised any issue with Carnation auto so far.

However, Honda Siel can restrict imports besides controlling the distribution channel.
1) Jagdish Khattar is not going to sell customers without profit. He will surely try to get some profit from selling the spares, but what amuses me is the behavior from Honda.
The above quote, if true, openly spreads the message that Honda is trying to extract a lot from customers by charging higher amount for spares.
Its cheating customers. Also IIRC, Honda is making some reasonable amount of profit from India.

This move by Honda proves they want to extract more money from Indian customers.

2) JK is rumored to be the man mainly responsible for the customer satisfaction ( in A.S. & S. ) that Maruti is able to deliver. IMHO, he will follow the same footsteps for Carnation Auto too. This is also a bit necessary as I see that now a days most of the A.S & S are overloaded and sometimes quality of work suffers too.

I hope JK wins the war against honda and sells the parts at reasonable rates.
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Old 31st July 2009, 16:07   #22
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This has no easy answers and can be destined for the courts. When a company spends moolah in either legally importing or sets up a manufacturing base in the country it expects that the local government will help its cause (both the manufacturers and govts. own) by ensuring that cheap imports or smuggled goods do not spoil the party.

That is why we see that in case of cheap (but legal) imports governments around the world uses Anti-Dumping laws to win the game. Many a times though these end up in WTO, particularly when the exporting country has a valid case. However what do you do in case of situations where there is a specially negotiated FTA arrangements with a country, like here with Thailand? Well, government can do nothing much so the companies typically take their own measures. When they have a base at the cheaper location then they just import from there to the other ends of the Free Trade Zone.

Now, Honda SIEL has little option but to ensure that either they are as competetive as the Thailand company or else they themselves start importing from there. However I suspect the problem is not in this area. As the article says, in many critical components Honda SIEL earns more than 50% profit margins, and I suspect it is even more. So they do not want their gravy train to come to a screeching halt because of JK. So they are thinking of all these shady ways, like putting pressure through their parent company on Thai Honda to stop selling parts and components to Carnation.

To answer narayan, yes, you can buy the components from the market directly. But then as you yourself said it will be a Munjal Showa shocks and not a Honda badged OE. Many people just do not feel comfortable doing that. It's a psychological block. Now what Carnation plans to sell you will be marked as Honda (albeit the Thai company) and still will be available cheap. That is what Honda SIEL is so worried about. The talks to register their brand as the genuine Honda OE is also geared towards this effort. Tomorrow if things really get down to that (I mean real dirty) they can simply raid the Carnations and arrest employees for selling "counterfeit" Honda parts as after the registration of the OE Honda brand against Honda SIEL name no one else will be able to use Honda name on the parts other than Honda SIEL.
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Old 31st July 2009, 16:30   #23
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Well, are these parts the ones that are not produced in India? I hope Khattar's plan is not blocked. This could force Honda to reduce the prices which would be beneficial to customers.
Its like MNCs having monopoly over sales and distribution in addition to manufacturing.
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Old 31st July 2009, 16:33   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zappo View Post
Now what Carnation plans to sell you will be marked as Honda (albeit the Thai company) and still will be available cheap. That is what Honda SIEL is so worried about. The talks to register their brand as the genuine Honda OE is also geared towards this effort. Tomorrow if things really get down to that (I mean real dirty) they can simply raid the Carnations and arrest employees for selling "counterfeit" Honda parts as after the registration of the OE Honda brand against Honda SIEL name no one else will be able to use Honda name on the parts other than Honda SIEL.
PS : I am not aware of any laws. If found inappropriate, mods, please delete this post.

1) What Honda SEIL is worried about ? Its this :
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zappo View Post
n many critical components Honda SIEL earns more than 50% profit margins, and I suspect it is even more. So they do not want their gravy train to come to a screeching halt because of JK.
2) But I think what JK is doing is nothing inappropriate. Yes, the brand game can be played. But would it not be bad for customers who are forced to surrender to tactics of a manufacturer who is trying to extract more than a fair share ?

I am taken aback by Honda's attitude.

3) Lets say that after 6 months, Honda SEIL is registered as genuine Honda OE. But JK has imported a lot of parts in those six months, then can Honda claim the parts as fake ?

Last edited by aaggoswami : 31st July 2009 at 16:37.
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Old 31st July 2009, 16:53   #25
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Atleast Carnation can import some performance related components.
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Old 31st July 2009, 17:13   #26
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Finally! I hate the attitude of Honda dealers.
They just flat out refuse to sell parts unless you bring your car to them.

But how is he going to sell it. I mean where are the retail outlets?
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Old 31st July 2009, 17:25   #27
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Finally! I hate the attitude of Honda dealers.
They just flat out refuse to sell parts unless you bring your car to them.

But how is he going to sell it. I mean where are the retail outlets?
JK isnt going to have retail outlets. Its going to be sold through his service centres.

Secondly, the problem here is manpower. He may get all the parts he wants, but the people working in his service centres are the same people who earlier used to work in Tata/Hyundai/Ford service centres. Unless JK sets up a proper training centre for all his mechanics, I dont see Carnation as a success.

Also, personally, I believe that JK is only talking big. He seems to be talking more than actually doing something worthwhile. Just because he was once the top man at MUL, he believes(rightly, unfortunately!) that people will just give him money if h's going to start something new and that is exactly what is happening. People/companies/banks are investing money in this only because he is associated with it.
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Old 31st July 2009, 17:31   #28
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But how is he going to sell it. I mean where are the retail outlets?
through the auto hubs he has in most metros and other places

just have a look here

Carnation
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Old 31st July 2009, 18:19   #29
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For the record, Honda's maintenance items are pretty well priced. E.g. my OHC Vtec's timing belt cost about 800 bucks! Service costs are on par with Alto's. Heck, even the Accord - their most expensive sedan in India - costs lesser to service than a Maruti SX4.

It is the accident damage parts + electrical items (e.g. alternator) that are expensive.

Jagdish Khattar is not importing Honda parts to only save on costs, but rather to offer a genuine alternative service option that is priced between the authorised aftersales & the local garage. Honda & other Indian manufacturers won't supply parts to him. He'd said earlier that he will go about sourcing himself. Related thread (Multi-brand car dealerships coming!)
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Old 31st July 2009, 18:52   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
PS :

3) Lets say that after 6 months, Honda SEIL is registered as genuine Honda OE. But JK has imported a lot of parts in those six months, then can Honda claim the parts as fake ?

Honda can't claim the parts as fake because JK bought the parts from Honda Thailand.No manufacturer would claim to manufacture fake parts.
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