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Old 5th March 2010, 08:00   #61
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OT: First of all, note that this thread was restarted after close to 8 months. So it should be interesting to see what's happening now.
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Originally Posted by rock18 View Post
My 1st car is maruti 800 and 2nd/present one is indica xeta.
I never had any problem with my car(indica) nor their service for the last 3 years.

We hear bad things about maruti,ford and hyundai services as well,but when it comes to fiat and indica..everything is hyped and exaggerated IMHO.so people will start having "See i told you about this" kinda attitude towards tata cars and their service centres.

Before the bajaj pulsar days,everybody was buying only HH splendor. I wanted to buy Yamaha RXZ but my father insisted that i buy Splendor or else no bike..so i opted for it.
My father knows splendor because one of his colleagues told him splendor is the best so he wants me to buy it and nothing else.He does not know why splendor is the best bike.Most of the people know only splendor even though they had other good bikes around.They don't do much research.They just wanted to buy what all others buy or the best selling model.

Vista and swift's case is somewhat similar to this.
I agree with most of what you've said, however, there is something to be said about being a First Mover (HH Splendor) in a segment and backing it up with sterling reliability and service to built brand image. HH did that very well.

Now, Tata got the first part right but the initial Indica's (pre V2) had a lot of problems. I don't really blame them too much for it though, as it was their first proper car, but their reputation did take a beating in the mind of the private car buyer.

It takes time to overcome this (if one wants to in the first place, which Tata clearly does), and I believe that with the Manza, Tata is almost there. The Vista is a great car, and I predict it is going to get stronger. As Tata gets it's quality and service up to speed, the Vista's USP of unbeatable space and value for money will make the most ardent of Tata critics do a double take.

No Euro hatch has the potential to match the space and value proposition that Tata brings to the table, there in lies the Vista's trump "car"d. I wish we could get individual sales break-up within the Indica family.
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Old 5th March 2010, 08:17   #62
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first of all
Unlike the Germans or the japs or the even the Koreans, tata's don't have that certain "special" feeling. Maybe it has to do with the brand name itself.

Secondly Tata's age very quickly compared to other car manufacturers.
rattles appearing faster than usual, engine responsiveness loss etc .
QC of Tata is poor compared to other manufacturers.
Compared to Maruthi , Resale value is poor.
The service ,if i would like to put it in one word it would be Unpredictable.
they have a very poor service reputation.
Frankly the only people who are buying Indicas are those people who use them as workhorse's for daily use and good wear and tear. Its like buying an expensive watch and wearing it for special occasions only and for your daily use buying a normal watch.

there was another thread regarding why are many indica's being treated badly. Hence it proves my above point.

finally The tag "Indica". i agree if tata had simply named it as the Tata vista it would have sold more than it is doing right now.
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Old 5th March 2010, 08:37   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amit View Post
June ACI reports sales of 10,210 Indica's compared to 6,666 Swifts. Do note that Maruti did sell 6,214 Ritz's too so overall Ritz + Swift are outselling Vista's but specifically between Swift and Vista, its the Indica that's easily outselling the Swift.

PS: Indica sales must be Indica + Indica Vista. Question is how many old Indica's are Tata managing to sell?
If you compare Indica+Vista v/s Swift+Ritz we can get a clearer picture. Though Maruti sales are more TATA is quickly catching up.

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Originally Posted by jassi View Post
i will be frank here - no offense to any indica owners, all i can think of is taxi image.
Come to Goa. You'll see plenty of Swift/Dzire Taxis. I still haven't seen a Vista Taxi.

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Originally Posted by rock18 View Post
I never had any problem with my car(indica) nor their service for the last 3 years.
You're not the only one. There are plenty of satisfied customers like you.

Quote:
We hear bad things about maruti,ford and hyundai services as well,but when it comes to fiat and indica..everything is hyped and exaggerated IMHO.
My +1 to that

Quote:
Before the bajaj pulsar days,everybody was buying only HH splendor. Most of the people know only splendor even though they had other good bikes around.They don't do much research.They just wanted to buy what all others buy or the best selling model.

Vista and swift's case is somewhat similar to this.
Absolutely correct.
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Old 5th March 2010, 08:47   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amartya View Post
Now, Tata got the first part right but the initial Indica's (pre V2) had a lot of problems. I don't really blame them too much for it though, as it was their first proper car, but their reputation did take a beating in the mind of the private car buyer.
Can we please get out of this pre-V2 thing at least now? It is 10 years since the V2 was launched, and a few years since the Vista was launched. So, shall we get out of flogging the dead horse?

I have already mentioned this in an other post here. Tata has covered a lot more ground in 10 years than Maruti has in 20! No ifs and buts about it.
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Old 5th March 2010, 08:53   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by discoverwild View Post
Tata has covered a lot more ground in 10 years than Maruti has in 20! No ifs and buts about it.
Without any doubts, while people are still happy buying tiny tin cans produced by Maruti's, TATA's have gone ages ahead with their in-house talent.

Since when has anyone seen Maruti cars being a family oriented car. All Maruti's are cramped and claustrophobic. Each and every car for that matter.

Only +ves being their service network, which is equally good / Bad as the others around.

Vista's are selling better than the swift diesel these days. I can see many more Vistas running around Bangalore than the Swifts.

And everyone can agree, if not for the Fiat Multijet engine, the Swift would have been phased out due to old age.
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Old 5th March 2010, 10:17   #66
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indica has taxi image, that is the major reason why people remain away from indica. Also tata cars are known for loosing their charm after few years. Average buyer who only drives his car occasionally will not buy tata.
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Old 5th March 2010, 10:22   #67
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BMW ad gos thus: "We realised a long time ago that what you make people feel is just as important as what you make".

Tata unfortunately gave the wrong feelings during its initial days.

Vista and Manza will continue to feel the domino effect of the historical mistakes for quite some time in to the future. The momentum of fall has to stop at some point in time. Earlier, the better.

Last edited by WindRide : 5th March 2010 at 10:23.
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Old 5th March 2010, 10:25   #68
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Taxi image of a car and a car being used as a taxi are two different things.
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Old 5th March 2010, 10:30   #69
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The average Indian car buyer is looking at mainly three things where he puts down his money. Reliability, FE and resale value. On all these three parameters combined, Maruti is king by a long margin, no two ways about it. Those who prefer build quality and are willing to sacrifice a bit on FE and resale value, go for Hyundai. Those who want a diesel car with loads of travel comfort go for the Tata. Those who are looking for a premium vehicle with a sturdy tank like build, don't bother much about A.S.S. or are willing to take that risk go for Fiat.This is how the hatch segment sales are decided.

Last edited by longhorn : 5th March 2010 at 10:33.
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Old 5th March 2010, 10:41   #70
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There is a World of Difference between Vista and Indica.But Still the Car is a "Indica Vista" May be due to same Platform?
A New Name for Indica Vista and a Relaunch(After a Year ,a Revamped Model) will Fix the Mess Happened?And ,One More Month to Tell Whether Indica V2 will be available after BS-IV Standard.


--
Old Indica V1-V2 Fiasco made a common assumption ,that Tata cars when launched will be having more problems.With Vista and Manza ,Is Such things Really Happened?Mass Recalls and All?NO.

Last edited by deepclutch : 5th March 2010 at 10:42.
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Old 5th March 2010, 10:44   #71
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Credit must be given to Tata where it is due. Unlike Maruti, they have introduced a newer model even though the older one is doing decent numbers. Although they are not as reliable as one from the Maruti/Hyundai stable, they are getting there. Just hopes it happens sooner rather than later.
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Old 5th March 2010, 10:46   #72
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I think Indica badge is the problem . Its a common name used in the office and else where.

"Hey book an Indica for me" , for the majority its a Taxi name.

Vista certainly an improved car, i think it need some cosmetic changes . I would like to see the front grill design change, and the removal of TATA letter from under rear TATA emblem to some where else in a smaller letters. Also i would like to see a change in the rear brake light panel design.

The below picture can be taken as an example for Front grill , Headlight.

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Old 5th March 2010, 11:33   #73
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Has tata improved by leaps and bounds? Yes
Are they as good as /Better than Maruti? ( in terms of technical excellence) - No

Case closed. A company that improves things faster can still have a product that is worse. They WILL overtake maruti at this rate, but at this point, Maruti still has the edge.
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Old 5th March 2010, 11:40   #74
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Absolutely Rock18, I too used a couple of Maruti 800s, now using an Indica Xeta GLX and a 2002 Indica V2 LSi, both work flawlessly except that the V2 gives out some more engine decibels.
I dont understand one thing which I have read and keep on reading across Team-BHP is that Indica has a taxi image. Mumbai city cab owners have increasingly shifted from their premier padmini taxi to Wagon R, Santro, Alto and Maruti 800. The status of taxi for Indica was a story of the past, there are innumerable newer cars adopting taxi stature. I have even come across i10 and A-star, which are considered latest technology incumbents. It is purely on the basis a person wants to look and feel at an idea. Some private cab fleet in Mumbai use Logan, Esteem MPFI and also Tata Indigo. Intelligent people cannot give a biased view for life. There were innumerable instances of Indica cars being crude and non-sturdy, but most Tata cars manufactured after 2004 have very good durability. Tata has proven once again proved that technology may not require international collaborative backbone, it can be perceived homegrown.

The Vista shares the same engine as Swift diesel, due to past history people may require time to heal their negative dislikes for Indica. The only thing I point out about Vista is there is a hairline gap on the bonnet lid and the grill, which is very evident from a distance, and could be more better crafted and aligned.
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Old 5th March 2010, 11:52   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by san2 View Post
it seems that many people like to treat tata vehicles like a punching bag,
tata single handedly is responsible for the livelihood of many familes, who have benefited from the reasonably priced and durable products from them
also they are a new entrant in the passenger car segment compared to the japanese and korean competitors who have been in this business for decades
if we have this same argument after some years, I dont think that tata will get any such comments
we indians are proud of tata because they achieved the impossible with nano, and we appreciate that they have given practically good alternatives to all bestsellers
but none of us want to buy a tata car
when some of us change our mindset the vista will definetely outsell the swift
The thing is not about Indian or foreign brand. When I go out in the market to buy something, what I look for is the value I get for my money, and moreover the A.S.S. which plays an extremely important part. And keeping all these things in mind, Tata still needs to pull up against others. Leave cars alone, how many of us would buy an Indian brand, just because it's Indian, while purchasing the TV? There are many Indian brands out there, but still many buy Sony, Samsung and LG! And when you buy a Videocon, that's because it's quality is comparable or even better than some MNC brands, and not because it's Indian!
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