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Old 5th March 2010, 11:54   #76
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The answer is simple.

What the Swift Diesel does after 2000 RPM, no other car in that price range does so effectively. Couple that with inexpensive spares, awesome network and reliability, and you have a package you cannot ignore.

IMO, what maruti has done with the multi jet engine, no one has been able to match. Refinement, power, FE and reliability - this is a very hard package to beat.

PS- That yellow vista looks super hot.

Last edited by iceman7 : 5th March 2010 at 11:56.
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Old 5th March 2010, 12:52   #77
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Default Dealer/Service network matters

More than anything else, it the Maruti's dealer + service network, that was formed when Suzuki piggy backed the Indian Govt to do so. In fact the number of Maruti Suzuki dealers are are comfortably double over the nearest competitors (for instance, in Delhi alone there are around 15 Maruti-Suzuki dealers with innumerable branches & then the authorised service stations are much more. This is the primary reason we see Maruti's everywhere as compared to Tata or any other competitor.

By the way, in Feb-10, the numbers of Swift vrs Vista are not much apart (only 113 to be precise). In a way the Tata dealer network is far more efficient.

PS: I drive a Santro Xing, so no love lost for either of the above two cars.
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Old 5th March 2010, 13:02   #78
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How about reconsidering the name - Definitely hurts resale value. Imagine putting up an ad when you are trying to sell Tata Indica Vista Aura Quadrajet. You have to pay so much more for a classified in Toiletpaper of India ;-)
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Old 5th March 2010, 13:07   #79
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May be the badge ' Indica' and the not too different looks played a role in keeping the Vista selling fewer than the Swift does.
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Old 8th March 2010, 00:18   #80
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Originally Posted by longhorn View Post
The average Indian car buyer is looking at mainly three things where he puts down his money. Reliability, FE and resale value. On all these three parameters combined, Maruti is king by a long margin, no two ways about it. Those who prefer build quality and are willing to sacrifice a bit on FE and resale value, go for Hyundai. Those who want a diesel car with loads of travel comfort go for the Tata. Those who are looking for a premium vehicle with a sturdy tank like build, don't bother much about A.S.S. or are willing to take that risk go for Fiat.This is how the hatch segment sales are decided.

BANG ON!!! And if anyone [avg indian buyer] has to give a stack ranking for their 3 preferences, reliability takes the pole. And this is one reason why I bought a swift and not the Vista. We all know that the Indicas emerged thru lots of refinement. Though it was 10 years before, it will be remembered! Its too short a time for people to forget the problems they saw in initial cars[human tendency]. Hence a potential buyer who wants to choose between a swift D or Vista will choose Swift. And as some one rightly pointed out, I have started seeing more Vistas on road now! But is that more than Swift Diesels? NO WAY! I work in Bangalore and no way I have seen more Vistas till date! And I dont even think Vista numbers can hammer Swift D numbers anyday soon - may be in sales but not on road in numbers!

Some one else said that there are more brands / models used as taxis. Could be [Am sure it is ] true. But are those numbers higher than private owned vehicle numbers of the same brand / model? Not at all! EXCEPT for Indicas where atleast 70% sold are used as Taxis and the rest for personal use.

Coming to space! Do all these cars carry full load [5 passengers] all the time! nop! so though vistas are far ahead of other cars in terms of space [i was HUGELY impressed by the space in a vista] , this does not become a great criteria for most choosing a car. And trust me, what I said just now will be used an excuse by lots NOT to buy a Vista!

So these are some of the reasons that Tata is struggling to come out of the image of not so great cars! If I can make a suggestion to TATA for improving the brand image, the first one will be to make a new logo for the car segments which doesnt even resemble the logos used in its commercial vehicles. The yellow concept car shown in the pic is just brilliant. The only put off is the tata badge! and second will be to design cars which doesnt resemble the indica!

Guys, I dont have the intention of hurting anyone who owns tata cars; but these are genuine concerns / thoughts of a middle class car buyer - I myself admire the way TATAs have come all the way - but they need to go a long way to overtake Maruti's position and they need to focus on multiple areas to achieve it. 1. Trouble free cars 2. Good service centres [1 bad service centre can be an acceptable exception; not 1 good service centre is an acceptable exception when it comes to money] And the way I have read here in t-bhp, its not that common to find a great service station for Tata. At the same time a bad Maruti service station is a rare thing. These are what I believe is keeping Maruti ahead of anyone.

Originally Posted by dr.faramroze View Post
The only thing I point out about Vista is there is a hairline gap on the bonnet lid and the grill, which is very evident from a distance, and could be more better crafted and aligned.
I actually thought once that the bonnet is open! dont look to me as a hairline gap!

Last edited by Eddy : 8th March 2010 at 12:16. Reason: Please use the edit / multiquote option instead of posting back to back posts within 20 mins. Thanks.
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Old 8th March 2010, 00:48   #81
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swiftnfurious, while I've had many issues with my car, reliablity has not been one of them. The car is bulletproof ( but not idiotproof unfortunately, which means it ends up suffering at TASC's). But i've heard enough horror stories (including one just last month from a dude who got a lemon dicor, and was filing suit in consumer court) , that I will not discount them. Tata can make reliable cars, but just not in a consistent manner
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Old 8th March 2010, 08:55   #82
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Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM View Post
All Maruti's are cramped and claustrophobic. Each and every car for that matter.

Only +ves being their service network, which is equally good / Bad as the others around.

Vista's are selling better than the swift diesel these days. I can see many more Vistas running around Bangalore than the Swifts.
Completely agree with this. Except the middle seat in the 5 seat Onmi van, all other Maruti vehicles are cramped (for me at least, I am 6'4")..! According to me, Maruti wins only in the A S S
I could see many Vista's on road across Kerala and Bangalore. Only thing I hate in this car is the centre console.

IMO, the taxi image factor is dominant only with city buyers. Those living in remote areas never care on this. Indicas are taxis mainly in cities. Other places, it varies depending on the local market and geography.


Last edited by RajeshK : 8th March 2010 at 08:56.
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Old 8th March 2010, 11:08   #83
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Tata has to start producing niggle-free cars consistently.
Even if it means increased costs in QC.
Even if it means, by increasing QC costs, they cut down on the VFM factor.
Iam all for quality, even if it means less 'features'/'gimmicks on road'.

THEN, i will become patriotic and start saying 'Be indian, buy indian'.
Not today.
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Old 8th March 2010, 12:09   #84
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Swfit has a youthful image
It performs better
It looks better
Its after sales service s better
It has lot of after-market mod options
The front seats are large to accomodate large people
Kids will be comfortable on the back seat
Suspension is a bit hard but makes up with handling
At the end of the day it drinks less
Turbo lag and 2K boost is something u can live with
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Old 8th March 2010, 15:28   #85
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As a Tata Indica Owner Vista should have been my natural choice while moving away the way it happens for a lot of car owners when they look for an upgrade ,unfortunately it is not so because of terrible expereince with niggles and A** experience with TATA for that very reason I crossed out Fiat also .
Swift is also a natural upgrade for a lot of 800/Alto owners diesel or no it boild down to ownership experience you've had Taxi image is not a big consideration as a lot of Marutis are also used as Taxi .
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Old 8th March 2010, 15:54   #86
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Bajaj Chetak dominated Indian scooters market, not because it was better than rest nor it had excellent after sales service. It was because people were familiar with it and familiarity breeds comfort. LML even though had a much better technology failed against Chetak. It had the advantage of being the first comer in the market. And this contributed to most important parameter for an Indian buyer, "Resale value".

Swift is based on Japanese technology & Vista on Indian (with help from Italians). Swift is targetted not only for India but also for Europe. Basically Tata is not such bad car as its sales are showing & people who scream about TASS are being very naive. Tata Dealers have very poor sales and marketing team and ads released by Tata Motors are very amateurish. Tata cars suffer from nothing but an image problem which they will have to rectify bringing in really good ads and making Amir Khan or Amitabh Bachan (Sharukh has already been booked by Hyundai) as brand ambassadors.

For average middle aged indian family for whom speed, pick up is not an issue, Vista would have been a better choice with its comfort levels, space, features, price & mileage. But Indica Vista has not yet been able to take on Swift or i10.
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Old 8th March 2010, 19:55   #87
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I think the main reason why Swift outsells Vista is brand image. Maruti has a better name for itself than Tata. Secondly, the Fiat powered Swift diesels are tuned to perfection compared to the Vista which to me is a little unrefined. Finally, some people may not like the retro interior as the HUD takes center console. It may remind them of an Amby. To me that is where i mark down the Vista big time. That center console HUD does not impress me. But then again, its personal choice. Resale value of Swift is also very high. All these factors combined, make the Swift outsell the Vista. But I must admit that the Vista is only the beginning of Tata's serious foray into the passenger car market. Expect better products in the future!
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Old 8th March 2010, 21:16   #88
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Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM View Post
Vista's are selling better than the swift diesel these days. I can see many more Vistas running around Bangalore than the Swifts.
I had a real boubt on this statement. But last saturday I spotted many Vistas on Bangy roads, that is good sign for TATA.
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Old 8th March 2010, 22:50   #89
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Just to put another twist to the argument. Let us look at the development of Maruti since 1984.

Main car: M800 and Omni
Competition: Premier Padmini & Amby (There were others but they can be discounted)
Quality: Better than the competition (which wasn't much) but no one bothered then. So effectively there was no negative effect.
Sales: Government supported while the competition was restricted even on the number that can be manufactured at least for the first 6-7 years

Even when the M1000 and later the Esteem was launched, they had no competition. Also, everyone knew they were Jap cars and not Indians like the others.

On the other hand, lets see the scene in 1998, when the Indica was launched
Main Car: Indica
Predecessors: Tata Estate, Sumo, Safari, Sierra, etc. which frankly weren't much compared to cars.
Competition: M800, Zen, Santro, Matiz, and others which had already spoilt Indians with choice and refinement.
Advantage: Was the only diesel (unless you count the Zen D) and hence the Taxi trade went for it.

So at 12 years into their lives, both companies had very different environments.

That doesn't mean that Tata got everything right, but they made too many mistakes.

I am now on my third Tata car and never went for a Maruti because I did not like the wait.
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