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Old 17th August 2009, 17:12   #16
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how ironic! any mention of alcohol is instantly sanitized on the forum but now there is a whole thread that talks about DUI.
Arre bhai its based on context.
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Old 17th August 2009, 17:16   #17
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It would be giving more phillipe to the Police & pursuing Inspector raj. Would lead to more public harassment & give more chances to the police to fleece people.

If police was to do its job in a just way, then such additions are welcome but unfortunately that's not the case.
Can you please explain ? How else would you check drunk/ drugged driving
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Old 17th August 2009, 17:17   #18
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here is what our precious Rule # 11 says:
11. Team-BHP maintains a strong stand against drinking and driving. Posts that don't abide by this view, or containing ANY alcohol content (in text or pictures, directly or indirectly) will not be entertained on the forum. This rule affects all posts from 1st Jan 2009 onwards.

forget context, a rule is a rule. atleast thats what Ive been told time and again.
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Old 17th August 2009, 17:30   #19
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Can you please explain ? How else would you check drunk/ drugged driving
How good does it feel when the same mouthpiece is going into everyone's mouth, a source of many infections.
Moreover, there's always the option of paying up under the table & getting away or a phone call from bigwig does the job.

See I support good laws but the grouse is with the law enforcement agencies whose attitude is the most callous & suspect.
You never know the policeman who's inserting that thing into your mouth might be drunk himself, just to compound issues for you!
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Old 17th August 2009, 20:04   #20
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How to detect someone who has consumed ganja or grass?

1.) Red bloodshot eyes
2.) Smell
3.) Lazyness

I know few disease would qualify for the above symptoms. Is consuming grass illegal?
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Old 17th August 2009, 20:07   #21
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How to detect someone who has consumed ganja or grass?
Exactly my point.
Quote:
Is consuming grass illegal?
Last time I checked it was illegal.
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Old 17th August 2009, 20:15   #22
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Originally Posted by blacmagic View Post
here is what our precious Rule # 11 says:
11. Team-BHP maintains a strong stand against drinking and driving. Posts that don't abide by this view, or containing ANY alcohol content (in text or pictures, directly or indirectly) will not be entertained on the forum. This rule affects all posts from 1st Jan 2009 onwards.

forget context, a rule is a rule. atleast thats what Ive been told time and again.
Perhaps that rule ought to be rephrased. Nothing wrong in condemning drinking and driving much the same way as we condemn overspeeding or street racing.
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Old 17th August 2009, 20:26   #23
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While DUI due to any substance abuse is illegal, the issue of enforcement is not as simple. As many members pointed out, methods to decide whether someone has committed DUI are at best debatable.

This is compounded by the fact, that if you decide not to pay the fine and instead challenge the charge (be it alcohol or other substance abuse), the police and courts system in the country is designed to discourage it. They will rather except bribes or even threaten, beat up, than allow for proper impounding, and filing of charges. Even if you succeed in taking them to court, there is no proper equipment which can offer proof that DUI was committed or not, and even breathalyzers used cannot be hauled up for faults, defects etc. You will have to submit a govt approved hospital's report to prove that you failed the test for some other reason. Again the alley is open to bribes!

Most drivers want to stay away from such troubles and even the police would rather get paid by a non alcoholic DUI driver, instead of trying to make a proper case.

On a side note, do we have night-time drive home services available in metros? Kind of like U Drink We Drive U - chauffeur drive home service

Last edited by nipunkul : 17th August 2009 at 20:30. Reason: information
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Old 17th August 2009, 21:42   #24
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
...there is a huge population which drives stoned out on local stuff like Bhaang etc.
...these people are equally, if not more dangerous than those driving under influence of alchohol?
Does police do drives to check such people who drive under influence of drugs other than Alcohol? Is there any provision in Law to prosecute them? and do the cops have the equipment to catch these offenders?
Any thoughts?
A few thoughts on your questions, Tanveer:
  1. Alcohol is considered a depressant of the central nervous system, thereby reducing reaction times and control over the vehicle. Its use is therefore prosecuted worldwide. In India, the pertinent law under which prosecution is done is Section 185 of the MV Act;
  2. Alcohol use is legal in most parts of the world - it is only when one is driving after consuming more than a certain quantity of alcohol, that it is considered illegal;
  3. Drugs like bhaang, charas, ganja etc. are derivatives of the cannabis plant, and are considered to be psychotropic or psychoactive drugs. They are banned substances under the Narcotic Drugs and Psychotropic Substances (NDPS) Act, and prosecution and penalties for possessing or using them are far more severe than Section 185 of the MV Act;
  4. The commonest (and very much legal) psychoactive drug we all use is called caffeine. Another substance that is banned in a lot of countries, but continues to be sold and used as a legal food ingredient in India is the poppy seed ("khuskhus" in Hindi or "posto" in Bengali), although the plant itself is banned under the NDPS Act.
  5. A section of the MV Act which empowers the Traffic Police to prosecute people for driving under the influence of banned substances would be meaningless, when more severe laws already exist to prosecute them, whether driving or not;
  6. It is another matter altogether that the NDPS Act is apparently not enforced strictly on days like Holi, and I suppose that issue is not under the purview of this thread or forum.
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Old 17th August 2009, 22:02   #25
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AFAIK, breathyzer has to be confirmed by a doctor. You can refuse to pay fine claiming that the breathalyzer is wrong; and your blood will be tested at the govt. hospital.

Only, in case of DUIOT (driving under influence of other things), you can opt only for blood test.
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Old 17th August 2009, 22:35   #26
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Sorry to break you bubble, but bhang is very legal in India. In fact it is very available through Govt. of India authorized shops. And it is part of our cultural traditions, so any effort to illeagalize it will be thankfully met with vigourous opposition.

I think that it is great that India can have laws independent of the rest of the world. Trying to copy every little rule that the west has regarding DUI or any other issue is just plain dumb. Why is it that every law in America should also be a law here in India? Have Indians no independent thinking or are Indians just psycologically subserviant to the west due the their (the western country's) economic superiority? Or have Indians just not got over their subservience to the British Raj? Maybe it is the result of the British Rajs' psych ops efforts by agents such as Max Muller et al. that the europeans are racially superior. Well I for one do not suscribe to the belief that everything that the west does is good for India. India must solve local issues within the context of regional issues that make sense are are fair/equitable for the common man without benefiting large corporate interest groups.

The west, and the USA espcially has a rambo-like belief that all problems can be solved by heavy handed prosecution by law enforcement (or military intervention/pre-emtion). Hence laws like: Mandatory jail time for DUI, Three Strikes rule, the war on drugs, the Iraq invation, etc. Well the US has serious problems, and their prisons are over-flowing with people jailed for petty offences. Fortunately, the prison industry of the US cannot sustain itself for much longer, and there will be forced releases of prisonor due to budgetory constraints.

Bhang, grass, marijuana, whatevery you want to call it is just a harmless substance that happens to be much less harmful than alchohol. So any attempt to criminalize it is just plain uncalled for .

Since you want to prosecute anyone or anything driving "under the influence", how about laws to prosecute old ladies, disabled people, teenagers, etc. After all they all can be a hazard on the road. I am sure the multinational insurance companies would just love that.

So you think that I am justifing driving under the influence? NO. I absolutly do not. The point is that heavy handed prosecution is NOT the solution. Correct education is. And that takes time and effort. The effort/funding needs to be put in the education not in law enforcement. Heavy handed law enforcement never has and never will work.
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Old 17th August 2009, 22:48   #27
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Originally Posted by Mr_Bean View Post
How to detect someone who has consumed ganja or grass?

1.) Red bloodshot eyes
2.) Smell
3.) Lazyness

I know few disease would qualify for the above symptoms. Is consuming grass illegal?
The first 2 points can easily be taken care of.
And how will a cop know that you are lazy ?
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Old 17th August 2009, 23:01   #28
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I agree, DUI (of any substance) should be prevented. Possession, buying and selling of any banned substance is an offence. But I do not think consumption has been criminalised yet.

I think all substances including our indigenous varieties, which alter perception or impair motor ability are equally harmful in a drivers system and this includes fatigue. Incidentally caffeine and nicotine, though highly addictive, do not alter perception or hamper reaction & movement and are therefore conisdered harmless for driving.

On a lighter note - if we were to shun everything vilayati - we just might have to give up our cars (which are products of the decadent west) and go back to good old bail gaadi.

Cheers,
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Old 17th August 2009, 23:42   #29
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I think that it is great that India can have laws independent of the rest of the world. Trying to copy every little rule that the west has regarding DUI or any other issue is just plain dumb. Why is it that every law in America should also be a law here in India? Have Indians no independent thinking or are Indians just psycologically subserviant to the west due the their (the western country's) economic superiority? Or have Indians just not got over their subservience to the British Raj? Maybe it is the result of the British Rajs' psych ops efforts by agents such as Max Muller et al. that the europeans are racially superior. Well I for one do not suscribe to the belief that everything that the west does is good for India. India must solve local issues within the context of regional issues that make sense are are fair/equitable for the common man without benefiting large corporate interest groups.
In case getting drunk drivers, who are a risk to others (I would care two hoots even if they die), off the roads amounts to copying the 'West', shows my lack of independent thinking, reflects my psychological subserviance to the western countries or the 'Raj', love for Max Mueller et al, then so it be!

I would prefer to stay labelled this way than me or my loved ones getting killed or maimed for life by a moron who had no sense of responsibility towards himself, or his family, or his fellow citizens! Sooner plug is pulled on these creatures, better for the society.


Quote:
The west, and the USA espcially has a rambo-like belief that all problems can be solved by heavy handed prosecution by law enforcement (or military intervention/pre-emtion). Hence laws like: Mandatory jail time for DUI, Three Strikes rule, the war on drugs, the Iraq invation, etc. Well the US has serious problems, and their prisons are over-flowing with people jailed for petty offences. Fortunately, the prison industry of the US cannot sustain itself for much longer, and there will be forced releases of prisonor due to budgetory constraints.
And there would be new jails built in our country, thereby providing employment opportunities to masses because judiciary is unable to keep pace with the crime rate. Not sure why we have the habit of bringing in cultural/regional/religious/gender divides at the drop of a hat!
62 years of democracy has taken us where? We still spit/litter on the roads. And just how do you think Singapore has become the cleanest of countries? Food for thought..


Quote:
Bhang, grass, marijuana, whatevery you want to call it is just a harmless substance that happens to be much less harmful than alchohol. So any attempt to criminalize it is just plain uncalled for .
am speechless..


Quote:
Since you want to prosecute anyone or anything driving "under the influence", how about laws to prosecute old ladies, disabled people, teenagers, etc. After all they all can be a hazard on the road. I am sure the multinational insurance companies would just love that.
This is what I meant about discriminating on the basis of gender/age/disability etc.

Quote:
So you think that I am justifing driving under the influence? NO. I absolutly do not. The point is that heavy handed prosecution is NOT the solution. Correct education is. And that takes time and effort.
For once I will agree with you Educating would take a lot of time and effort. Keeping in mind the pace at which we have been able to educate folks in last 62 years, I am sure you and me would be having the same discussion in our 10 re-incarnation from now (if you believe in re-births, that is).

Quote:
The effort/funding needs to be put in the education not in law enforcement. Heavy handed law enforcement never has and never will work.
It has in countries like Singapore, Malaysia, China, Japan. Oh what a co-incidence, all these are countries from the East!!
Education should be supplemented with law enforcement and should go hand in hand. Its like conducting an examination at the completion of term/semester to ensure whatever was taught has really sunk in or not. Education or Prosecution in isolation will not be able to take care of this problem
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Old 17th August 2009, 23:48   #30
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McLaren, there have been plenty of instances when posts have been sanitized because they contain references to alcohol - irrespective of how harmless they are. the rule has been applied with an iron fist.
it happened to me once too and all my questions and justifications were replied to with one answer: "please refer to Rule # 11"
now I see a this thread and it is started by a moderator. doesn't Rule 11 apply equally to them as well?

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Originally Posted by McLaren Rulez View Post
Perhaps that rule ought to be rephrased. Nothing wrong in condemning drinking and driving much the same way as we condemn overspeeding or street racing.
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