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Old 29th September 2009, 20:13   #391
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GTO,

I completely agree with you on the underkitting of the Civic vis a vis the equivalent Altis and I also believe this would have been a good time to catch up, particularly since there's a minor price hike as well.

Having said that, I did TD the automatic Altis and the Civic before I finalised buying my own Civic. There was just no comparison in the driving experience and refinement - the Civic felt not just marginally but significantly more rewarding to drive. I guess that's what keeps certain customers repeatedly going for Honda.

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Honda ought to have given the Civic some more kit for the asking price, especially in the facelift. The Altis GL is cheaper than the Civic VMT by 54 grand. Yet, it has the following over & above the Honda:

6 CD changer (though Honda has USB / iPod integration)
Power drivers seat
Electric lumbar support
HID headlamps + washers
60:40 rear seat split

The Altis has steering mounted audio controls, but the Civic has it neatly integrated on the rear seat center armrest. The Altis, net net, offers better equipment for lesser $$$. Plus, the Altis also has an entry level variant which the Civic doesn't, logically as it would be positioned too close to the ANHC top variant.

I personally prefer the Civics looks, interiors & driving experience, but the Altis makes a compelling case for itself against Honda. Again, the facelift presented itself a great opportunity to kit the Civic up. Honda missed it!!
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Old 29th September 2009, 21:43   #392
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My guess is the road taxes up north are really very low. Hence they can go for a Honda even if its overpriced than competition.

In Delhi it's 2% or something, right?
So if Ex-showroom was 8.5L ... tax was 17k only.
Whereas in Hyderabad, I paid 12% tax for my new car. So my tax on ANHC would be 1 lakh.

Big difference.


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By the way, has anyone noticed this trend where Honda and Maruti sell like hotcakes in North India as against more tempered sales in South India?
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Old 29th September 2009, 21:52   #393
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Originally Posted by neotraveller View Post
My guess is the road taxes up north are really very low. Hence they can go for a Honda even if its overpriced than competition.

In Delhi it's 2% or something, right?
So if Ex-showroom was 8.5L ... tax was 17k only.
Whereas in Hyderabad, I paid 12% tax for my new car.
Definitely... We have Road Tax as 4% with 4k as MCD parking fee etc. In the end, it does turn out cheaper to buy cars in Delhi than for instance Hyderabad or Bangy.
I, however feel that the lower price is not what makes people buy Hondas and Hyundais. It has more to do with brand loyalty and the inflated pride that accompanies driving a H badged car.

I have lived in north India all my life and as a matter of fact...up north you can put a 'H' on a bullock cart and people will pay 6 lacs for it. There is just not the same awareness about Automobiles here. Cars are not loved..they are flaunted. Anyway, sorry for the off topic.

Has anyone in Delhi TD'd the new Hondas? I wanted to check them out, will give Ring Road Honda a call tomorrow.
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Old 30th September 2009, 04:12   #394
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Originally Posted by EssYouWe View Post
Definitely... We have Road Tax as 4% with 4k as MCD parking fee etc. In the end, it does turn out cheaper to buy cars in Delhi than for instance Hyderabad or Bangy.
I, however feel that the lower price is not what makes people buy Hondas and Hyundais. It has more to do with brand loyalty and the inflated pride that accompanies driving a H badged car.

I have lived in north India all my life and as a matter of fact...up north you can put a 'H' on a bullock cart and people will pay 6 lacs for it. There is just not the same awareness about Automobiles here. Cars are not loved..they are flaunted. Anyway, sorry for the off topic.

Has anyone in Delhi TD'd the new Hondas? I wanted to check them out, will give Ring Road Honda a call tomorrow.
i agree with you completely 100 %.


also is anyone annoyed by the fact that the audio controls are given on the back seat and not on the steering itself. . this is what i hear, correct me if i am wrong. man if this is true then am definitely annoyed. its not a merc. or 7 series to have audio controls on the backseat. accord also has them but that's more suitable for it as it will be mostly chauffeur driven. but why civic.
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Old 30th September 2009, 10:30   #395
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caramelo View Post
also is anyone annoyed by the fact that the audio controls are given on the back seat and not on the steering itself. its not a merc. or 7 series to have audio controls on the backseat. accord also has them but that's more suitable for it as it will be mostly chauffeur driven. but why civic.
Your assumtion is correct.

To side the civic the only use of back seat audio controls can be that the family can change the volume and channels from the back. So while we can agree that it is a self driven car and not one to be chauffered in. It is also a family car.

Realized this angle when over the weekend my wife was repeatedly asking me to change channels and volume from, the rear seat with our kid, and then finally there was relief and peace after she picked up the remote.
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Old 30th September 2009, 10:31   #396
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Well, there are a few other things that are annoying (to me atleast).
> + USB and - CD-changer (on all variants), come on Honda
> "New design" alloys is a joke. The only change is that the shiny ridge in the middle of the spoke is kind of flattened; no change is shape or anything at all
> The fuel consumption indicator is not a complete trip-computer like in City or Altis

Things I'm kind of happy about are
> Front looks even better
> Rear suspension issue solved (need some more road-testing to see if its completely solved, but I think its surely reasonably done up)
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Old 30th September 2009, 14:48   #397
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Guys,

I have taken the plunge and booked the new City - got a chance to TD it couple of days back. Only concern was the ride quality - bumpy; the interior and exterior changes are all good, trim does not look el-cheapo any more.
Of course the VFM factor is missing - but need an Automatic Petrol Sedan at ~10L.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ml#post1508085
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Old 30th September 2009, 15:12   #398
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Thats great! More details on the TD. How has the cornering and the high speed stability taken the suspension tweaking?
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Old 30th September 2009, 15:29   #399
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Originally Posted by EssYouWe View Post
Thats great! More details on the TD. How has the cornering and the high speed stability taken the suspension tweaking?
PROs:
Interiors feel upscale enough for C segment - Finally
Looks have improved (IMO) due to the cosmetic changes
Paddle shift is awesome in the A/T
Good cornering
Scared the living daylights out of the salesman by making a U-Turn on a dark street (Knew the road very well - mostly empty)

CONS:
Hard to maintain the soft beige interiors - need some kind of scotch guard
High speed jiggling - pushed car to 120 - not as steady as my Fiesta
The drive-by-wire acceleration lag is noticeable
Engine is loud - too much cabin noise

All-in-all nothing that is a showstopper.
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Old 30th September 2009, 17:05   #400
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I am currently deciding between City and Civic for my next upgrade. On the new face lift Civic, there is a huge margin in the price between SMT and VMT:

Delhi -Showroom prices:
SMT - 1,180,000
VMT - 1,270,000

a price difference of 90K (~1 lac) and you have the followings extra on V variant:
- Leather Upholstery
- Fog lamps
- turn indicators on ORVMS
- Chromes
- Cruise Control

Does an increment of 90K justified on these few extras?
IMO, a better stanley leather on S variant would cost around 35K. Others are not a must to have extras. So, I think they should have at least included audio controls on steering wheel on the V variant. So much greed for some mere extras! :(

Last edited by iTNerd : 30th September 2009 at 17:06.
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Old 30th September 2009, 19:09   #401
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axe77 View Post
Having said that, I did TD the automatic Altis and the Civic before I finalised buying my own Civic. There was just no comparison in the driving experience and refinement - the Civic felt not just marginally but significantly more rewarding to drive. I guess that's what keeps certain customers repeatedly going for Honda.
You can say that again. The Civic's driving experience, especially with the new stiffer rear, is superb. Permanent smile on my face. I also love the exteriors, interiors and driving position of the Civic over the Altis. I've repeatedly posted that the Civic appeals as much to the heart as the Altis does to the head. Both excellent C segments, depends on what your requirement is.

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Originally Posted by EssYouWe View Post
I think Honda's arrogance with pricing is always justified by the sales.
Not really. In the last few months, the Altis has well overtaken the Civic in sales.

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Originally Posted by mkc15 View Post
> The fuel consumption indicator is not a complete trip-computer like in City or Altis
It's like a Casio font straight out of the 80's!

Quote:
Front looks even better
Subtle smoked headlamps look good.

Quote:
Rear suspension issue solved (need some more road-testing to see if its completely solved, but I think its surely reasonably done up)
Yeah, it'd be great if existing Civic owners can test the facelift and put in their comments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iTNerd View Post
I am currently deciding between City and Civic for my next upgrade. On the new face lift Civic, there is a huge margin in the price between SMT and VMT:

Delhi -Showroom prices:
SMT - 1,180,000
VMT - 1,270,000
Leather is really the only real pro on the ANHC SMT. On the other hand, with the Civic, you are getting a larger car, C+ segment quality and an awesome drive. I'd go for the Civic.
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Old 1st October 2009, 11:29   #402
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Honda ought to have given the Civic some more kit for the asking price, especially in the facelift. The Altis GL is cheaper than the Civic VMT by 54 grand. Yet, it has the following over & above the Honda:

6 CD changer (though Honda has USB / iPod integration)
Power drivers seat
Electric lumbar support
HID headlamps + washers
60:40 rear seat split

The Altis has steering mounted audio controls, but the Civic has it neatly integrated on the rear seat center armrest. The Altis, net net, offers better equipment for lesser $$$. Plus, the Altis also has an entry level variant which the Civic doesn't, logically as it would be positioned too close to the ANHC top variant.

I personally prefer the Civics looks, interiors & driving experience, but the Altis makes a compelling case for itself against Honda. Again, the facelift presented itself a great opportunity to kit the Civic up. Honda missed it!!
I think this is the wrong way to view the issue.

From Honda's point of view the question is simply whether the reduced profit margin per car from adding more features (equivalent to cutting the price, in economic terms) will be made up by increased sales. I am guessing from their reluctance to match the Corolla feature-by-feature that they think their customers value the driving experience plus ownership experience too much to shift en masse to the Corolla (where they give up the former) or the Laura (where they give up the latter). In fact they seem to think that their buyers are in fact willing to pay a premium for new trim levels (Elegance and Inspire).

We might think they are wrong in this belief but the fact is that they have a bigger incentive to be right than we do!
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Old 1st October 2009, 12:08   #403
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iTNerd View Post
I am currently deciding between City and Civic for my next upgrade. On the new face lift Civic, there is a huge margin in the price between SMT and VMT:

Delhi -Showroom prices:
SMT - 1,180,000
VMT - 1,270,000

a price difference of 90K (~1 lac) and you have the followings extra on V variant:
- Leather Upholstery
- Fog lamps
- turn indicators on ORVMS
- Chromes
- Cruise Control

Does an increment of 90K justified on these few extras?
IMO, a better stanley leather on S variant would cost around 35K. Others are not a must to have extras. So, I think they should have at least included audio controls on steering wheel on the V variant. So much greed for some mere extras! :(
You can get better leather from outside / stanley for about 35K, the Fog lamps too can be fitted later, the crome is not required, mirror blinkers are just for a small bit of style and cruise control would very very rarely be used. I have used mine twice in last 2 years on the Laura.

So v with 90K extra is not justifed SMT is a better bet than VMT, spend the money on Auto vs MT if required.
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Old 1st October 2009, 12:16   #404
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
You can say that again. The Civic's driving experience, especially with the new stiffer rear, is superb.
Honda never formally accepted an issue with the Civic's rear suspension, but now the facelifted version gets a stiffer rear. Any news if existing owners can get this upgrade ? My car is still under warranty.
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Old 1st October 2009, 12:46   #405
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Originally Posted by Car Fan View Post
I think this is the wrong way to view the issue.
Could be. But also consider the fact that the Civic is getting hammered by the Honda City inhouse. To the lay man, its a 4 door Honda sedan too, and 90% of the Civic @ 75% of the price (both entry variants). Equipping the Civic better would offer yet another differentiation between itself and the City! And more features for the price, even Civic owners will be happier. A win-win if you ask me.

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Originally Posted by indivic View Post
Honda never formally accepted an issue with the Civic's rear suspension, but now the facelifted version gets a stiffer rear. Any news if existing owners can get this upgrade ? My car is still under warranty.
Try requesting a fix when your car goes in for its service.
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