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Old 13th October 2009, 10:21   #91
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Originally Posted by cpyder View Post
If you are trying to take a U turn, or even trying to join in on a road, each one on that road just wants to beat you from doing it by, once again, speeding up. Especially true for two wheelers who would try to get past using maneuvers that would put an ace fighter pilot to shame.
Exactly. But I was even abused by the cab driver behind me for letting go another car asking for a u turn at a busy road. He termed me as a 'newbie driver' and something like 'chicken' (polite version!)

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Lads,

My two pennies worth, analysing unpredictable-instinctive behaviour of drivers/riders in India :


2. I think ( this is my personal opinion) that as a nation, we Indians lack civic sense,

Unless we teach civic sense, right from the kindergarten level, our succeeding generations will continue to be boorish inhabitants of a great civilisation.
Absolutely true. We take pride in our ancient values and culture, and boast that US is just a country thats been in existence for half a millenia at most - and we have nothign to learn from them. Sure we do not need to learn culture from US, but definitely we need to learn some good amount of civic sense. This should start from the schools and driving schools if we are ever to be a truly civilized nation which has both culture and civic sense.

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Originally Posted by theMAG View Post
This is not just due to lack of road etiquette by users so much as it is lack of a system. The fundamental requirement of any traffic system is to take away all guess-work from road users and to funnel them into well-designed channels.

Unfortunately, the Indian government doesnt recognize that traffic hygiene is a vital component in this country's growth to make it a must-do (like paying tax). Look at China.
Roads are just an after thought in most of indian cities! And I can surely say no one - from top brass to PWD contractors know anything about traffic streamlining.
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Old 13th October 2009, 10:39   #92
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Lightbulb Mandatory Military enrollment ?

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Originally Posted by benbsb29 View Post
The apalling road sense and lack of etiquette is shown not just on the roads, but also in various social meetings and gatherings such as having no respect for queues, perennial need to be attended to first syndrome, etc.

When you come to think of it that way, there is a much larger issue at hand, and one cannot expect a reform in traffic etiquette till the same is also reflected in the general behaviour and mannerisms.
Fantastic point.

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I also thought about some solutions. Three quick-fix areas of solutions are:

1. Educate children and all drivers on traffic and road sense- in schools, colleges and driving schools. If it takes lengthening the process of getting a driving license, so be it.

.......
But first, have the entire system computerized so that there are no leaks. For worst offenders, ban them from driving for 6 months or more.
...
Please note that this option might require changes to the Motor Vehicle law and other relevant laws.
....
4. Improve road infrastructure: I have often seen cars swerve dangerously just to avoid a massive crater. At least give the public better roads. Properly marked zebras. Zebras, or underpass/overbridge at walkable distances. Footpaths and pavements. Ensure properly working signals.

--
I sometimes wonder that if everyone drove sensibly and within his lane, it would take me 30-40 mins to travel from south Delhi to north Delhi (distance is 20km), instead of over an hour that it takes today. Everyone could save time, money, petrol- if only everyone drove more sensibly.
Will this be alone sufficient?

I have travelled a bit around the world both western and eastern countries. I was wondering, how in hell do the eastern countries manage the volume and still maintain the discipline.

Lets take example of Korea and Taiwan. Very small countries - however the living density in cities is equal to Chennai, Kolkatta - if not Mumbai, Delhi. The development started in the 70s. Huge road ways, mass transport systems were designed and implemented then. But still able to manage the traffic now. This is mainly because of the discipline followed and the enforcement of law.

Discipline Followed
Both the countries make it mandatory for to militiary enrolment. After 2 years they can continue or discharged. This instills the basic sense of discipline in the civilians.

Why appropriate for India
The China threat is looming large. We need large numbers to counter the threat of both Pakistan & China. Not to mention the Laskhars, Maos..

This will also instill some sense of civilian responsibility.

Enforcement of Law
Together, if we enforce the law in strict and no-holes barred approach - we can give our children a better India atleast by 2020.
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Old 13th October 2009, 12:35   #93
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I am seeing a lot of cars with the fog lamps ON. Some have HID lamps in them. Makes me BLIND.

I think fog lamps should be prohibited.
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Old 13th October 2009, 13:24   #94
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+1 to that. Mandatory military enrollment could bring upon atleast some change in us and our way of thinking.
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Old 13th October 2009, 14:02   #95
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Originally Posted by DileepKS View Post
I think fog lamps should be prohibited.
Fog lamps should point at the road fairly close to the front of the car. They are great for driving on bad roads, and spotting the potholes on better ones. They should not dazzle anybody. All badly adjusted lamps should be banned!

I don't know that they have reached here, but they must exist on some of the imports/European models --- but high-intensity rear foglights are dreadful when misused, as they often are in my mother country. In heavy rain or fog, they allow following traffic to see a vehicle in front well before ordinary rear lights are visible, but, in the hands of the driver who thinks his light switch has only two positions ---all on, or all off--- they are dazzling menace in clear weather.
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Old 13th October 2009, 14:04   #96
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+1 to that. Mandatory military enrollment could bring upon atleast some change in us and our way of thinking.
Do you really think our military/military men are the most civilised?
The kind of discipline enforcment in the military is nothing different from what a convent school enforces on its pupils.
These only hold good inside the campus. When these 'subjects' are outside the campus, they turn into mere mortals like you and me.

For me 'enforcement' doesn't bring about a long-term change.
Inspite of the strict law/traffic enforcement in western countries, you see high speed crashes, red-light jumping, and all sorts of traffic violations, albeit at a lesser frequency.
What can make the difference is education and awareness!
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Old 13th October 2009, 14:05   #97
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Originally Posted by DileepKS View Post
I am seeing a lot of cars with the fog lamps ON. Some have HID lamps in them. Makes me BLIND.

I think fog lamps should be prohibited.

Then how are we expected to drive in fog? Lean on our horns maybe?

Guys, if there is a ache in your head, you do not chop your head off - you cure the ache.

Just that some people drive with their high beam on and fog lamps on (alongwith HID lamps in them) is not reason anough to BAN them altogether!

Education is the key here - we just need to educate people NOT to drive with high beams in city and NOT to drive with fog lights when there is enough illumination! thats it!
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Old 13th October 2009, 14:26   #98
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well, i dont see anybody driving with fog lamps ON in Bangalore

Does it happen in Cochin ? Very strange, but in my one year of deputation from the company i used to work earlier, i didnt see anybody in kochi driving with fog lamps unless it used to rain heavily.

Other point people forget not to or rather believe is that they should drive with high beam when FOG is formed. Doing this will only make driving difficult since the light is reflected back to us by the water particles in the fog. It is always advised that the low beam to be used while driving in fog.
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Old 13th October 2009, 14:30   #99
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Originally Posted by sanjaykk View Post
Do you really think our military/military men are the most civilised?
Certainly not, but most of them are, as far as I have seen, far better than many monkeys on the road.
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Originally Posted by sanjaykk View Post
The kind of discipline enforcment in the military is nothing different from what a convent school enforces on its pupils.
These only hold good inside the campus. When these 'subjects' are outside the campus, they turn into mere mortals like you and me.
You are right but only to a certain extent. The values once imbibed in us during our growing years are hard to change because they become a habit. Which is the reason why most corporates employ ex-defence personnel for security, administration and such other posts.

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Originally Posted by sanjaykk View Post
For me 'enforcement' doesn't bring about a long-term change.
Inspite of the strict law/traffic enforcement in western countries, you see high speed crashes, red-light jumping, and all sorts of traffic violations, albeit at a lesser frequency.
What can make the difference is education and awareness!
Yes, but their proportion is much lesser than that of India which sees, if I m not mistaken, the highest number of road deaths in the world.
No place can be zero accident free but like you said, proper enforcement coupled with individual values can bring down violations and accidents to a great extent.
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Old 13th October 2009, 15:18   #100
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Originally Posted by sanjaykk View Post
Do you really think our military/military men are the most civilised?
....

What can make the difference is education and awareness!
Its a fact that our road senses are very aggressive.

Its amusing to hear our sport commentators. We Indians are vegetarians. We dont have agressive instincts.. blah blah. But when it comes to roads - we are one of the worst..

I think Military enrolment is a solution...

However, I dont want to speculate. For this to be done in India - there has to be a catastrophe from our nothern borders.

More practical is creating awareness. Any pointers?
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Old 13th October 2009, 15:33   #101
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Being in the Gulf for more than 2 decades, there are certain things followed here that we can emulate in India:
1. The traffic rules are by and large well founded based on logic. For example, if one hits the vehicle in front or a vehicle on the main way whilst entering from a by lane it is almost automatic that he is judged the violator and penalised. This would strike sense in to people thinking that they can argue their way out. Result, they will hopefully be compelled to drive safely for the safety of their pockets
2. Mandatory jail terms for pedestrian signal jumping or for red light jumping
3. speed cameras at strategic places. Speed violators are also charged for the expenses incurred in capturing his vehicle's image!
4. On the spot resolution/ fine for traffic offences. Those who can't pay (no running cash et al) will have to forego their licenses and go to the traffic station to clear their cases.
5. better patrolling. The moment a signal fails, there is a cop within minutes who will take over
6. Strict following of lane discipline by trucks and heavy vehicles. They should not be permitted to move out of the slow lane at any cost.

All said and done, the common phenomenon here is that we expats drive carefully, wary of the law. But locals care two hoots. If someone were to have a stastical analysis of accidents in the Gulf, I feel at least 85 to 90% would involve or be attributed to a local.
Simply put, if every one starts loving his/ her vehicle as part of oneself, they will not take chances and end up in scratches and dents. Kudos to TBHP since here this culture is nourished.
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Old 13th October 2009, 18:15   #102
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The world over, if you take a selfish, arrogant person, who believes they can just take what they want from life, and give them a military training --- you turn out a fitter, stronger, selfish, arrogant guy who is far better at taking what they want.

In my mother country, military towns are the last places you'd wander the street at night.

(disclaimer: talking in wild generalisms, of course, but there are a lot of thugs with military training in the world)
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Old 14th October 2009, 20:34   #103
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IMHO, a fine on the spot does not solve the purpose. After all, what is a couple of hundred rupees in todays world? What will have more effect is to make the violators pay up at the fine of as low as a mere 100 or 50 rupees at the RTO/Court or some other place. And make it mandatory that the owner himself has to go and deposit the fine. Not the driver/ on behalf kinda things.

More than money, it is the inconvenience and wastage of time that would work as a deterrent.

But of-course, laws need to be 'enforced'. Now that is a weak area.
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Old 15th October 2009, 10:25   #104
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Nice forum - many discussions.
It is simple, unless each and everyone follow/respect the law (not by compulsion) and respect others (everyone has equaly right to use the public road), the situation will not improve.

Not only the motorist, but most places the pedestrians also behave wrongly which may put the motorist in big trouble even how carefully one is driving.

How many drivers (either owner driving or driver) putting the seat belt on their own?
I feel 85% of them are putting the seat belt fearing of policemen and eventual fine.

Big vehicles should respect small vehicles. During night, when you are on the highway, howmany lorry/trucks used to dim their head-light - may be just 1% ? This is called no respect to others.

You cannot enforce any law forcefully which will only turn as an eyewash (I have seen there are some drivers put the seat belt only on seeing a policeman in distance,
and then immediately he will remove the same - How one can educate people like this).

This system will keep on going and we will have to live with it. Those who are lucky
escape from any bad incidents, otherwise you had it.
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Old 15th October 2009, 10:47   #105
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Originally Posted by DileepKS View Post
I am seeing a lot of cars with the fog lamps ON. Some have HID lamps in them. Makes me BLIND.

I think fog lamps should be prohibited.
FOG Lamps are supposed to be pointing towards the Road to have visibility upto the next say 10 mts. Since, the beam travels for a shorter distance, It also covers both the sides by atleast 1 metre. The same can be checked when they're factory fitted.

But, in India, the after market guys focus it as an equivalent to the High Beam.
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