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Old 23rd April 2010, 06:31   #46
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Toyota Innova - VX 7 Seater costs Rs. 14.67 Lacs OTR . It does come with Intercooler now. The sales guys at Ravindu and Nandi confirmed that there is absolutely no change to the power and torque.

-Harshavardhan

Last edited by harshavardhan : 23rd April 2010 at 06:37.
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Old 23rd April 2010, 09:03   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nitinbose View Post
There are rumors about the intercooler, however, it would be fitted somewhere below, unlike the SUVs with a bonnet scoop. So I guess this would be an intercooler for namesake

Moreover, considering the minor price hike (considering the way the car is priced), this should be an intercooler for namesake.

The major change, if at all would be done at the catalytic converter.

If Toyota were to add an intercooler with the BSIV catalytic converter, then they should have hiked by more than a 100K INR!

regards,

Nitin.
Intercooler without a bonnet scoop is quite common and need not necessarily be namesake.
Ex. Endy doesn't have a bonnet scoop. Even Toyota's own Prado & Land Cruiser 200 do not have a bonnet scoop for that matter. It

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffetfan View Post
I opened the bonnet and saw one today. There is no confirmation on power or torque though the guess is that it may be higher. The inter cooler is placed in front of the radiater, the turbocharger and exhaust system has seen some redesign to accomodate the intercooler piping and there are some other changes as well. Tried browsing through the manual but found no mention of engine power.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayPrashanth View Post
I'm just off the phone after talking to the folks at Toyota, Bangalore. It seems that the intercooled Innova's power and torque figures remain same. I was a little surprised and asked the folks at Toyota to check again. They did so and confirmed that there is no change in the power and torque output. The only thing that goes up is the price which sees a bump of INR 27,000.

Cheers,

Jay
Ideally when an intercooler is added, it is likely to cause a change in the power/torque. Maybe there IS a minor change but is not being officially communicated through brochures etc.

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Originally Posted by narayanang76 View Post
Look at this from the angle of fuelling as well. Will BS IV fuel will be easily available when you need in and around your town? Otherwise go for BS III instead

narayanang76
Quote:
Originally Posted by nitinbose View Post
....Furthermore, do we have "real" BSIV fuel? Would fuelling BSIII fuel on a BSIV do some damage consequently? This is what you should be asking yourself and the dealer.

Nitin.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
Came across this piece of news.

Source : Innova BSIV now out in market | Autocar India

Aritlce :

EDIT :
Our visit to Toyota dealer in Vadodara was pathetic.
The salesperson told me that I will ruin a car if I run a BS-IV car with BS-II fuel. I asked him what will happen if I drive a BS-IV car to another place where BS-IV fuel is not available ?

He was too confused and knew nothing.
I've heard that engine will not face any adverse effects if used with BSIII or BSII fuel.

Permissible Sulphur content in Fuel:
BSII = 500ppm
BSIII = 350ppm
BSIV = 50ppm

I understand the Innova's engine is capable of handling that (atleast till such time all cities get atleast BSIII fuel )

Sources indicate that there is a likelihood of a communication being sent to all dealers by Toyota to this effect soon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arin_12 View Post
Yesterday I saw a BSIV innova while I was coming back from office near the St. Johns Hospital. It was a brand new car with temp registration...
You would also notice the small Intercooler badges on the fenders below the D-4D Logos.
Name:  Edit Innova BS IV 1.jpg
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Old 23rd April 2010, 13:54   #48
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Hmm...I thought this should been mentioned earlier...the new Innova should be around 120bhp and if Toyota has put a variable nozzle turbo then it should be 144bhp!!

Appearing in 2001, the 2KD-FTV is the 2nd generation of the KD series of engine with a smaller 2.5 L displacement.

The displacement of this engine is based on the previous 2 L engine. Bore remains the same 92 mm but stroke is increased to 93.8 mm. Like the 1KD-FTV, it also has 16 valves and is a DOHC engine with a turbocharger and intercooler.

It produces 102 hp (75 kW) at 3400 rpm and 191.7 ftlbf (260 Nm) of torque at 1600-3600 rpm without an intercooler or 120 hp (88 kW) at 3400 rpm and 239.85 ftlbf (325 Nm) of torque at 1600-3600 rpm for the intercooled version.

However, Toyota Thailand has added a new variation of engine with variable nozzle turbo (VNT) installed and intercooled. Thus increase the horsepower to 144 hp (106kW) at 3400 rpm and torque of 343 Nm at 1600-2800rpm.

Compression ratio is 18.5:1. Redline of this engine is 4400 RPM. This engine also uses D-4D Common Rail (Common rail direct fuel injection ) technology.


Source:Toyota KD engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now lets start drooling..
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Old 23rd April 2010, 16:23   #49
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Originally Posted by shibu View Post
Hmm...I thought this should been mentioned earlier...the new Innova should be around 120bhp and if Toyota has put a variable nozzle turbo then it should be 144bhp!!

The BSIII Innova had 102PS.
I hear unofficially without any communication that the BSIV might be around 107~108PS
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Old 8th June 2010, 13:44   #50
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Default Innova, Now with Intercooler

A friend of mine spotted an Innova with the 'Intercooler' word under the D4D moniker at Marathahalli, Bangalore yesterday.

And guess what, Toyota India's website now lists the BS-IV Innova available with the intercooler.

Here is the excerpt from the website:

ENGINE Type
BS IV: 2KD-FTV, Diesel with Intercooler Turbocharger, 4 inline cylinder

BS IIII: 2KD-FTV, Diesel with Turbocharger, 4 inline cylinder


Gurus,

Anyone done any preliminary research on whether we could retrofit the intercooler to older models? Does anyone here, have contacts in Toyota who can figure out an answer to this question?
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Old 8th June 2010, 17:32   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJP View Post
A friend of mine spotted an Innova with the 'Intercooler' word under the D4D moniker at Marathahalli, Bangalore yesterday.

And guess what, Toyota India's website now lists the BS-IV Innova available with the intercooler.

Here is the excerpt from the website:


ENGINE Type
BS IV: 2KD-FTV, Diesel with Intercooler Turbocharger, 4 inline cylinder


BS IIII: 2KD-FTV, Diesel with Turbocharger, 4 inline cylinder


Gurus,

Anyone done any preliminary research on whether we could retrofit the intercooler to older models? Does anyone here, have contacts in Toyota who can figure out an answer to this question?
I am sure Toyota would not want to bother with the headache as the exhaust piping, intercooler piping and certain other parts have undergone a mod. They have issued a list of changes to dealers and you could get a copy from your dealer.

Finally-should we bother given that power o/p is exactly the same?
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Old 8th June 2010, 18:02   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffetfan View Post
Finally-should we bother given that power o/p is exactly the same?
More than the power, adding an intercooler will help cool the air inducted into the engine and that should (theoritically) improve efficiency.
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Old 8th June 2010, 18:19   #53
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already available in mumbai since about 15 days.. showroom people say they can deliver the vehicle in 5-6 days after booking
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Old 8th June 2010, 18:54   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJP View Post
Anyone done any preliminary research on whether we could retrofit the intercooler to older models? Does anyone here, have contacts in Toyota who can figure out an answer to this question?
CJP if possible have a look at the BSIV model on what they have done to accommodate the intercooler, this will give you design cues, it is doable.

Spike
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Old 8th June 2010, 19:25   #55
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I don't understand making these subtle changes quietly. Sure, in some cases they might be so small as to question publicizing / advertising the change, but what's wrong with a simple press statement?
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Old 8th June 2010, 21:21   #56
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Originally Posted by CJP View Post
More than the power, adding an intercooler will help cool the air inducted into the engine and that should (theoritically) improve efficiency.
A. My bad - but Diesel engines have a pretty favorably stoichiometric ratio. That being the case, there is almost always enough air available to burn the fuel.

How would the intercooler help improve mpg? More power - yes as you can burn even more fuel, more reliability as there is less heat builtup in the cylinders but how does that produce mpg improvement?

Maybe for a new vehicle, you can design a smaller engine with lower weight and hence get better MPG by reduced weight but how do you do that by bolting an IC to an existing engine?

In fact the intercooler has to be carefully designed so that the connflicting effects - head loss due to the obstruction and temprature loss due to the heat exchange produces a final favorable result - net increase in the air density in the cylinder

Intercooler - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


B. If my memory serves me right, the BS III Innova I have had a ARAI FE of 13.7 Kmpl and the BS IV version is 12.xx KMPL. Maybe the extra piping done to improve efficiency has blunted the efficiency. Can someone confirm as it comes as a sticker with the Innova Manual and I have lost it.

BS III Innova Mileage

Toyota's Innova'tion - New Innova launched - News : Overdrive

Last edited by Buffetfan : 8th June 2010 at 21:27.
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Old 9th June 2010, 16:39   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffetfan View Post
.....
B. If my memory serves me right, the BS III Innova I have had a ARAI FE of 13.7 Kmpl and the BS IV version is 12.xx KMPL. Maybe the extra piping done to improve efficiency has blunted the efficiency. Can someone confirm as it comes as a sticker with the Innova Manual and I have lost it.
Please refer my post
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post1859617
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Old 11th June 2010, 17:53   #58
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Originally Posted by karpusv View Post
Thanks. This clearly shows that BS IV Innova has a lower FE than the BS III model.
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Old 12th June 2010, 07:32   #59
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No karpusv didn't mean that. He said test conditions have been altered hence the abrupt changes in FE reports. On the other hand it may have to do with the intercooler also. Lets wait and watch for FE reports.
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Old 12th June 2010, 08:43   #60
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Originally Posted by ramzsys View Post
No karpusv didn't mean that. He said test conditions have been altered hence the abrupt changes in FE reports. On the other hand it may have to do with the intercooler also. Lets wait and watch for FE reports.
Correct

What I/m trying to say is that the change in testing parameters makes it difficult to judge whether the FE for BSIV improve over BSIII or goes down compared to BSIII. Every manufacturer has different ways of getting engines to BSIV compliance.

We would never get to know from the certificates, whether they were tested last year with the THEN prevailing standards or this year using current standards.

(Pssst.. If both BSIII and BSIV Innova were to be tested according to the new BSIV standards, then the BSIII Variant has an FE lesser than the BSIV Variant by about 0.06 kmpl.)

Need to wait for actual owner reports.
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