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Old 7th September 2009, 20:59   #151
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Yes, memo was driving my baleno. You have to counter in some mild traffic, bad roads filled with huge potholes, mountain sized speedbreakers on the way to his farm. The Getz suspension was much stiffer compared to its recent siblings but yet it was the perfect compromise for street and enthu driving. I didn't have to slow down for every pothole, speedbreaker like memo had to on my baleno. Yet the Getz was not so bad that I couldn't push it (I would never dare pushing an accent or a Getz Crdi like that).
Cmon man, you could have beaten a Bugatti Veyron in those conditions. We're not comparing offroad vehicles here.

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Elantra inspired more confidence in me than any car I have driven this side of 15lacs. (Road spec) Vtec unfortunately inspired NO confidence in me for its is a car that had FAILED its crash tests and was banned from being sold in many countries. Please bear in mind that it used to weigh some 965 odd kgs only (kerb wt)
Confidence is subjective. It has nothing to do with the car.

Thats the reason why Kimi was winning races while Luca was struggling. Had it been massa in that same car, he would have been right up there with the front runners.

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Old 7th September 2009, 22:19   #152
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Originally Posted by kb100 View Post
Sorry - its obvious that ET and Mclaren love each other
Sujit, dont worry, I am straight . I thought ET declared he didn't like to see any threads that mentioned Hyundai and me together in it. Yet, he still seems to be reading all the posts on this thread .

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Elantra inspired more confidence in me than any car I have driven this side of 15lacs.
I agree. But since the car in question is a Hyundai, no one will actually believe you.

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(Road spec) Vtec unfortunately inspired NO confidence in me for its is a car that had FAILED its crash tests and was banned from being sold in many countries.
Sssshhh! Not here, if not we will soon have a Honda v/s Hyundai battle here.

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Elantra's composure at high speeds (150 Plus) is brilliant and its brakes are to die for!
Once again, this is impossible from a Korean car. Stop lying Sujit.

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It is a slightly nose heavy diesel (kerb wt 1350kgs IIRC), hence if you allow for that and adapt your driving style, you can carry more momentum into the turn, brake as late as possible (27 mts for 100-0), and torque your way out accelerating faster than the petrols. (you cant beat it in in gear acceleration).
I find it quite funny that most people try to compare the Elantra's handling to Vtec, Lancer, Baleno, Linea, Fiesta and the likes rather than comparing it to the RS, Magnum, Accord which roughly weigh around the same as an Elantra.

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The biggest problem is to meet someone who knows how to drive their cars.
Sujit, everyone thinks they are better than Michael Schumacher. Even I used to, till I hit the track. Then I figured out how wrong I was. But being men, its not so easy for most to admit this, men have big ego's.

I remember a time when I drove ROC's Cedia on track and said it was quite disappointing for the Lancer's successor. People laughed at me saying I don't know what a good handling car was, but no one uttered a word when Narain Karthikeyan repeated exactly what I had reviewed about the Cedia in one of the mags. So I guess unless someone like NK says the Elantra is a good handler for its size and in its category, only then will people take the words seriously. Till then, whatever you, me or anyone else says is all rubbish.

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Originally Posted by Shan2nu View Post
Cmon man, you could have beaten a Bugatti Veyron in those conditions. We're not comparing offroad vehicles here.
Baleno is not some supercar with low GC that it couldn't handle these roads. And mind you Getz is no offroader. Point is, the Getz soaked up the bad sections pretty well and was pretty poised in the good areas. I doubt you have visited Mohnish's farm, it has some of the best twisty sections you can drive around Bangalore. And I am not comparing this to OHC, but to a Baleno that handles much better.

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Confidence is subjective. It has nothing to do with the car.
True! But since you are the numbers guru, why don't you look up one of the tests that OD/ACI did where they rated the Elantra's braking to be amongst the Merc/BMW/Audi league? Also, while you are at it, kindly take some time to see the drive video's of Tadu's car in action with Baleno's, OHC's, RS'. I am sure if you notice carefully, you should be able to figure out how it feels composed at high speeds. Just one question, have you ever sat in an Elantra being driven at high speeds? Or all this theory is just speculative given the dimensions of the car?

Last edited by mclaren1885 : 7th September 2009 at 22:21.
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Old 7th September 2009, 22:43   #153
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Baleno is not some supercar with low GC that it couldn't handle these roads. And mind you Getz is no offroader. Point is, the Getz soaked up the bad sections pretty well and was pretty poised in the good areas. I doubt you have visited Mohnish's farm, it has some of the best twisty sections you can drive around Bangalore. And I am not comparing this to OHC, but to a Baleno that handles much better
But whats the point of doing a comparison test on a bad road man? If i want to tackle bad roads at great speeds, i'l buy an SUV, why Getz?

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True! But since you are the numbers guru, why don't you look up one of the tests that OD/ACI did where they rated the Elantra's braking to be amongst the Merc/BMW/Audi league? Also, while you are at it, kindly take some time to see the drive video's of Tadu's car in action with Baleno's, OHC's, RS'. I am sure if you notice carefully, you should be able to figure out how it feels composed at high speeds. Just one question, have you ever sat in an Elantra being driven at high speeds? Or all this theory is just speculative given the dimensions of the car?
The numbers guru is openly asking you to put your theory to the test on track with complete telemetry from a vbox. You can get a getz, elantra or verna (doesn't really matter). I've driven it at 160+kmph and it didn't inspire anything.

What has braking in a straightline got to do with handling? There is no better place than a race track to do it. It'l test every bit of the cars performance.

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Old 7th September 2009, 22:53   #154
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Hey Shan! I can arrange for the Vbox! Just let me know when you guys want to do it?

Hey! By the way! Rahul I had a quick question for you? Do you own a OHC Vtec!! Or for that matter, have you had the opportunity of driving a bone stock vtec with stock new suspension? ( not stock vtecs which have clocked some 50-70k kms on our cr@ppy roads! )


Cheers
Shrey

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Old 7th September 2009, 23:02   #155
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Look dude. End of the day driving pleasure is different for everyone. You can't expect everyone to appreciate the same car.

You guys find the VTEC scary, i've taken it to 195kmph and felt pretty comfortable. I have even taken flat out corners at 175-180kmph without any issues.

So if you're impressed with Hyundai, just pick one up and be happy with it. Why un-necessarily start a thread which will just go on forever.....unless we have a track test.

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Old 7th September 2009, 23:30   #156
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Originally Posted by Shan2nu View Post
But whats the point of doing a comparison test on a bad road man? If i want to tackle bad roads at great speeds, i'l buy an SUV, why Getz?
Shan! I won't argue with you on this. Kindly ask memo to take you to his farm, check the roads and you will know what I am talking about. Certain sections were bad, but we had some nice stretches as well where the cars could be pushed. Everyone here says don't talk about track alone, take real life conditions to account. When I do, you say this.

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The numbers guru is openly asking you to put your theory to the test on track with complete telemetry from a vbox.
Theory? The Elantra clocked a 2:17 on the long loop on a Vbox. You yourself posted saying that NK clocked a 2:15 in a stock RS on the long loop. What more proof do you want? You don't have to believe my word for it, ask doomsday (someone who you trust and is a part of your group) about the authenticity of the timing. He was the one who handled the Vbox, not me. Its not something I have cooked up along with my friends.

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There is no better place than a race track to do it. It'l test every bit of the cars performance.
I don't have to prove anything to anyone. But we are planning a track day soon so that some of the new comers to our gang can improve their driving skills and the Getz surely will be there. So do come and check it out if you like.

No offense, but I think I have done the most number of track days on this forum (except for Farhan, Sawan who live on track). I have driven a baleno, esteem, lancer, palio, siena, OHC, SX4, Cedia, Elantra, RS, swift, ikon, almost all the single seaters apart from the Rolon's to warrant a comment that the most uninspiring car I have driven on track is the Cedia, period.

I shall take up your challenge on track seriously, the day you get your OWN VTEC to track atleast once. You have been saying this for ages now but don't ever turn up with your car. And you are asking me to put my money where my mouth is? Shan, honestly tell me, how many cars have you driven on track? I know you are a brilliant driver, but I doubt you have driven anything apart from Wolf's Vtec, Grey's swift on track (do add if I have forgotten). And yes, the single seaters and the track esteems.

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What has braking in a straightline got to do with handling?
You are right! But to me if a car handles good or is capable of doing high speeds it better have good brakes too. I have seen instances where your own friend nearly killed himself trying to brake on the Vtec. What good is handling, if you can't brake to stop yourself from getting killed?

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Do you own a OHC Vtec!! Or for that matter, have you had the opportunity of driving a bone stock vtec with stock new suspension? ( not stock vtecs which have clocked some 50-70k kms on our cr@ppy roads!
No Shrey! But I have driven a VTEC quite a lot (everyday for 2yrs to be precise), used to belong to my best friend from PU days and I always used to drive to college as he didn't enjoy driving much. Anyways I don't think you guys will believe me on that (unless you have friends who studied in Joseph's during 01-03 batch).

If you are trying to tell me that a Vtec handles better than a esteem, palio, baleno, lancer, then only god save you all. A ain't the only one to say this. You can ask Ajmat, Sriram, Harrie, raj.barcode, iraghava, anush, v1p3r, jitu who all have owned a OHC at some point and have already mentioned how good a OHC handles at some point or the other on this very forum.

Shrey, just FYI, I have probably driven the fastest OHC Vtec in the country after Madhu's. The car was running 22psi of boost on a T3/T4 turbo. So you can imagine how it must have felt like redlining it in first 3 gears. I love the Vtec, but comeon you just cant neglect its minus points like they don't exist.

Honestly, we are way OT here. So I shall stop arguing with you guys on this.

The point of this thread was to figure out why certain cars like the Getz/Elantra didn't sell in the market and to find out why many members make statements against Hyundai like I posted in the first few posts. Some members figured the answer to the first question, as for the second part, all those members who posted some ridiculous comments didn't stand up for their comments made on other threads on this thread. They preferred keeping mum.

Last edited by mclaren1885 : 7th September 2009 at 23:34.
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Old 7th September 2009, 23:42   #157
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Originally Posted by kb100 View Post
The biggest problem is to meet someone who knows how to drive their cars.
If meeting someone who knows how to drive their cars is a problem, how would you recommend such car to a stranger on a forum ?
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Old 7th September 2009, 23:54   #158
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I don't have to prove anything to anyone.
Then why even start a thread like this? Should have just let it go....



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No offense, but I think I have done the most number of track days on this forum (except for Farhan, Sawan who live on track). I have driven a baleno, esteem, lancer, palio, siena, OHC, SX4, Cedia, Elantra, RS, swift, ikon, almost all the single seaters apart from the Rolon's to warrant a comment that the most uninspiring car I have driven on track is the Cedia, period.

I shall take up your challenge on track seriously, the day you get your OWN VTEC to track atleast once. You have been saying this for ages now but don't ever turn up with your car. And you are asking me to put my money where my mouth is? Shan, honestly tell me, how many cars have you driven on track? I know you are a brilliant driver, but I doubt you have driven anything apart from Wolf's Vtec, Grey's swift on track (do add if I have forgotten). And yes, the single seaters and the track esteems.
Thats exactly why i wanna find out. If i had driven all the cars on track, why would i ask you for the test? I never said the VTEC was faster.

Me not getting my car on track only happened once when i had confirmed on the site and couldn't make it at the last moment.

The track is over 720kms from here, so let me know atleast 15-20 days before the event and il def come.

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You are right! But to me if a car handles good or is capable of doing high speeds it better have good brakes too. I have seen instances where your own friend nearly killed himself trying to brake on the Vtec. What good is handling, if you can't brake to stop yourself from getting killed?
Just bcoz he had a prob doesn't mean the car is bad. My cousin rammed his Elantra into a truck once, but that was purely driver error.

Even F1 drivers miss their braking point or ram into each other. These are things you just can't avoid when driving at high speeds. If it has to happen, it'l happen on any car.

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Theory? The Elantra clocked a 2:17 on the long loop on a Vbox. You yourself posted saying that NK clocked a 2:15 in a stock RS on the long loop. What more proof do you want? You don't have to believe my word for it, ask doomsday (someone who you trust and is a part of your group) about the authenticity of the timing. He was the one who handled the Vbox, not me. Its not something I have cooked up along with my friends.
If the 2:17 was done by you then ok, i'l just use that as reference when i drive on track.

Shan2nu

Last edited by Shan2nu : 7th September 2009 at 23:55.
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Old 8th September 2009, 00:44   #159
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Originally Posted by Shan2nu View Post

Confidence is subjective. It has nothing to do with the car.

Thats the reason why Kimi was winning races while Luca was struggling. Had it been massa in that same car, he would have been right up there with the front runners.

Shan2nu

You are soooo right! Confidence is truly subjective, and which was why "I" was very specific about WHY "I" am not confident. Since I clearly aint no Kimi/Luca/ nor Massa, "I" did NOT feel inspired by any tin can that can go FAST but cannot stop when "I" want it to... and is guaranteed not to save me if in a collision even at 40mph!

I take crash test results very very seriously - if a car has not passed a crash test @ 40 miles per hour - then the car is only capable of one thing - being a widow maker!

Tests have shown the Elantra's 100-0 braking distances are next only to the S class - that too only by ONE solitary meter! I feel/felt much safer in a car which can out-do a Vtec any day in rain,cloud or shine in an 100-0 than a 0-100 - plus guarantee me a margin if I fail to stop in time!

So sorry if you, or anyone else, likes the Vtec - I was/am petrified of it! It was an extremely unsafe car unleashed on unsuspecting Indians only because of our lax laws! (At a ridiculous price too I might add!)

Lastly MY opinion (on the absolute lack of safety in the Vtec ONLY) is based on FACTS - at no time did I quote/question any of yours! Lets keep it that way pls!


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Originally Posted by VahanPujari View Post
If meeting someone who knows how to drive their cars is a problem, how would you recommend such car to a stranger on a forum ?
Friend - I am recommending a car - not the driver!

Secondly, if you ARE a novice driver, you are better off in something that has PASSED crash tests, and comes with safety features like ABS with EBD and Traction Control coupled to twin airbags! Hell, I am sure even Shumi (or any professional) wont catch himself in something without all that!

Lastly, if in any doubt, just check out how many of our rally champions swear by the Elantra - so much so that the Elantra is their personal car of choice - the car that they have shelled out their own hard earned money for, and the cars they and their families travel in!

Looks like the next track day is a potential myth-buster!!

Last edited by kb100 : 8th September 2009 at 00:54.
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Old 8th September 2009, 04:16   #160
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You are soooo right! Confidence is truly subjective, and which was why "I" was very specific about WHY "I" am not confident. Since I clearly aint no Kimi/Luca/ nor Massa, "I" did NOT feel inspired by any tin can that can go FAST but cannot stop when "I" want it to... and is guaranteed not to save me if in a collision even at 40mph!

I take crash test results very very seriously - if a car has not passed a crash test @ 40 miles per hour - then the car is only capable of one thing - being a widow maker!

Tests have shown the Elantra's 100-0 braking distances are next only to the S class - that too only by ONE solitary meter! I feel/felt much safer in a car which can out-do a Vtec any day in rain,cloud or shine in an 100-0 than a 0-100 - plus guarantee me a margin if I fail to stop in time!

So sorry if you, or anyone else, likes the Vtec - I was/am petrified of it! It was an extremely unsafe car unleashed on unsuspecting Indians only because of our lax laws! (At a ridiculous price too I might add!)

Lastly MY opinion (on the absolute lack of safety in the Vtec ONLY) is based on FACTS - at no time did I quote/question any of yours! Lets keep it that way pls!
That was the whole point behind me saying that it was subjective, at no point did i say that you were wrong.

The Elantra having a better 100-0 than a VTEC is a fact and i dont deny it. But we were not talking about 100-0 here, it's overall performance and that can only be tested on a track where you have a combination of acc, braking, cornering etc.

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Looks like the next track day is a potential myth-buster!!
Seriously man, the next TD is gonna be real fun.

Shan2nu
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Old 8th September 2009, 05:50   #161
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Originally Posted by mclaren1885 View Post
Akshay, take time to read my post. I have clearly mentioned the Santro was faster than the Zen. That in itself is a compliment to the engine. The Santro petrol engine was one of the better engines Hyundai dished out. If only they hadn't made it a tall boy.
Well, I bought it because it was a tall boy. It was more comfortable, ingress/egress was easier, and it had more low-end torque. But the engine was NOT better than the Zen. Far from it.

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Originally Posted by mclaren1885
To someone who drives an RS that runs on rods I don't think you understand the need to be able to use the same car on our highways too.
Whatever gave you the idea my car ran on rods? It runs on roAds, lol. It has been lowered and the bump has been adjusted a bit, that's all. It's pretty much stock.

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Originally Posted by mclaren1885
But then again, I wonder what you are comparing it to? Baleno? Lancer? OHC? RS? That would be just foolish.
Actually I keep hearing people say it outhandles all of them. What would you like me to compare it to?

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Originally Posted by mclaren1885
When I say it handles well, its probably the best handler in that class of diesel cars for the speeds it can manage. On a highway its pretty tough for an RS to leave a Pete'd Elantra behind. The Tdi, Magnum don't stand a chance when it comes to handling, one doesn't move, the other is far from being a good handler.
So now you say the Magnum is a bad handler. Any proof? And how does being a fast car on the highway translate to being a good handler? A W126 or W140 S Class will annihilate any of our cars on the highway. Does that mean it's a great handler.

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Originally Posted by mclaren1885
I have a few friends who have a Getz P and they haven't had any issues even after clocking 80k kms. I have seen Tadu's elantra clock 1.2L and its not had issues.
I was referring to the powerful diesel in a small car. You just said Tadu has had his suspension replaced. IIRC he has also had his clutch replaced twice and his gearbox housing replace atleast once, if not more. This was when I used to keep track of such things, it may have changed since.

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Originally Posted by mclaren1885
You know as much as I do, how badly you have abused the Santro. Baleno has had its share of track days, but thats on well tarmacked roads and not non-existent ones the Santro had to go through.
Actually the Baleno went through much more abuse than the Santro, even on bad roads. But it came out better. I therefore infer it is a better built car.

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Originally Posted by mclaren1885
I find this weird coming from someone who owned a not so good looking car, one that grew on you with each passing day, the Baleno. Honestly, I have started to like the Elantra looks, similar to how the Baleno looks start to grow on you.
Well I think the Elantra looks odd. The Baleno has a weird rear end -- all flat -- but the Elantra has a weird front.

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Originally Posted by mclaren1885
.Akshay! I find your statement quite out of context. If you noticed, the need was for a PETROL car and NEVER a diesel back in those days.
Rahul! You say the Elantra is a great car, period. Not vis-a-vis other diesels. In that context, why be fixated on petrols?


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Originally Posted by mclaren1885 View Post
I have also had the opportunity to see JD Madan race his Getz with Koni's on track (Koni says they have none available) and he was faster than all the esteem's, baleno's, vtec's. Goes to show that the car is good handler. JD was very impressed with the Getz's handling, something coming from a man like him you better not argue. Maybe Akshay has forgotten that incident.
I remember JD also had higher compression, a cam, and an exhaust. I may be wrong about those things though. Honestly, JD's driving talent would mean that he could have showed up on roller skates that day and thrashed all the other cars. That's hardly a conclusive bit of evidence.

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Originally Posted by kb100 View Post
Vtec unfortunately inspired NO confidence in me for its is a car that had FAILED its crash tests and was banned from being sold in many countries. Please bear in mind that it used to weigh some 965 odd kgs only (kerb wt)
Wow, I had no idea! Can you post some links please?

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Originally Posted by kb100 View Post
Lastly, if in any doubt, just check out how many of our rally champions swear by the Elantra - so much so that the Elantra is their personal car of choice - the car that they have shelled out their own hard earned money for, and the cars they and their families travel in!
I think that would be one, VR Naren Kumar. IIRC, it's not his only car. But then again, if your other daily drive is an INRC Baleno/Cedia, APRC Evo VII, PWRC Impreza, I don't think you'd mind having an Elantra. That said, just because he drives it doesn't mean anything specific. IIRC Jibby used to drive an Ikon 1.8D. Can't really say it was a great car. There was an article on how the chief Ferrari test driver drives a little Lancia or Fiat everyday.

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Originally Posted by mclaren1885
Besides, I am sure you know how my dad was scared by my aunt who had a Accent which in word can be summed up as a LEMON.
Which, in the end is why people don't buy Hyundais as much, maybe.
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Old 8th September 2009, 09:05   #162
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Originally Posted by mclaren1885 View Post
According to your theory no two cars can ever be compared because they will always have a CC difference.
Do you read before posting or just start typing from the word "GO".???

I had clearly stated 3 things why its not a fair comparo :
1. 35 Bhp / 50Nm ( in stock form )
2. 200cc difference
3. The all important VGT



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Originally Posted by mclaren1885 View Post
And what do you think I am achieving by glorifying the brand?
Even i'm wondering
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Originally Posted by mclaren1885 View Post
I call the S.drives crappy, you call them brilliant. Does it mean you are blindly glorifying them too?
That didn't make me start a thread on " Skewed perception, preconceived notions about S drives Why ? "


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Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
Elantra no matter what you say isnt a good handler. Look at the front and rear overhangs, the thing rolls around even if going swiftly round a roundabout!
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Old 8th September 2009, 10:10   #163
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Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post

I think that would be one, VR Naren Kumar. IIRC, it's not his only car. But then again, if your other daily drive is an INRC Baleno/Cedia, APRC Evo VII, PWRC Impreza, I don't think you'd mind having an Elantra. That said, just because he drives it doesn't mean anything specific. IIRC Jibby used to drive an Ikon 1.8D. Can't really say it was a great car. There was an article on how the chief Ferrari test driver drives a little Lancia or Fiat everyday.

Actually not - Almost all of the Coimby Rally crowd own Elantras! One of them exhorted me to buy one saying " this is the ONLY car that is more fun to drive than the Mondeo"! Some very famous tuners own/owned them as well! You know a few - I am sure you can find out as well.


As regards OHC and crash test - it was public domain and I remember reading it on the web itself. I remember reading this was apparently one reason why the City was even banned in some south east Asian countries. A cursory Google search strangely throws up no results of Honda City crash tests at all! ... strange...

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Originally Posted by Shan2nu View Post
That was the whole point behind me saying that it was subjective, at no point did i say that you were wrong.

The Elantra having a better 100-0 than a VTEC is a fact and i dont deny it. But we were not talking about 100-0 here, it's overall performance and that can only be tested on a track where you have a combination of acc, braking, cornering etc.



Seriously man, the next TD is gonna be real fun.

Shan2nu
Shan2nu - I did not want it to degenerate into an Elantra Vs Honda (or any other car) war. Sorry if my post seemed curt- it was not intended to to be!

Last edited by kb100 : 8th September 2009 at 10:15.
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Old 8th September 2009, 11:51   #164
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Perception !!!. They are second largest car sellers in india. Period. By the way I think they are number one at one thing - build quality. Even a 30K done santro has a silent cabin than many hyped car on this forum.
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Old 8th September 2009, 12:20   #165
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Is this thread serving any purpose? There will always be biases and preferences, as far as cars are concerned, on this forum. If one has changed his preference in the recent past, it doesnt mean his/her perception was skewed or misconcieved earlier. It just means his environmental aspects changed for him to adjust his biases accordingly.
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