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Old 8th September 2009, 16:38   #196
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Dude!!! wish I could say what I wanted to say!! Anyway!! Hail Hyundai!!! Go east go west Hyundai is the best.. Makes you happy!!

But one thing I would want to say, I doesnt matter if I get another infraction for this one!!

I want to see "you" in "your" Hyundai... next track day.. You talk performance, lets have an all out performance test.

It will be a bonus to see" India's fastest NA Baleno in action too". Lets have a myth busting track day!!

Till then, I dont see this thread holding any value to anyone over here..

Cheers
Shrey

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Old 8th September 2009, 16:42   #197
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Originally Posted by moralfibre View Post
So based on your confusion about where Hyundai stands, everyone who has a say against your idea of a "Hyundai" should invest in a Hyundai?
Confusion? Kiran, I really don't know where you are getting at. Like I mentioned in my previous post, many members did answer my 1st part of the question asto why these cars flopped. And if you take time to read it, I have agreed with them.

Then we had people make generalized comments about handling. I just tried to put my experience into words. Then Shan said, experiences are subjective, give us figures. So I gave him a figure. Then I got accused of talking about track.

Quote:
I thought you wanted to know why Hyundai doesn't get any recognition on its otherwise flop products, which is well explained so far.
I have mentioned this atlest 4 times on this thread so far that yes, people have given a analysis of why some of the cars flopped. How is it that you keep missing out that point?

Quote:
But it seems you started this thread with an intent to have everyone agree with you without any constructive criticism which would never happen.
Its a pity you took it that way. If you see the first few para's of my first post it mainly focuses on comments like calling Hyundai crap and the need to know why people have such opinions.

Its only later on that I added my views about two cars here and even mentioned that the review is more on the lines of bidding adieu to these two cars that have stopped production.

Then we had the whole story blown out of proportion by bring in other cars and comparing them rather than staying Hyundai specific on this thread.

Instead of finding out why people make generic statements like the ones below, its a pity this thread started to become a battle of ego's with each trying to prove how their car is better than a Hyundai.

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All I'm saying is, I think Hyundai as a manufacturer is crap
Quote:
I don't feel like driving a Getz or any Hyundai for that matter.
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Old 8th September 2009, 16:45   #198
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Perceptions are perceptions. These threards do not change them. Over the years they may change. I know people who in early 90's rejected Maruti, calling it Soap Box and bought the Ambassador. Today the only brand they trust is Maruti.

When I bought my WagonR last year the only cars that I had driven were 800, Matiz and Santro. Matiz is the car I love the most. We still own one. We had rejected the Santro for the Matiz in 2000 and again rejected it for the wagon in 2008 despite persuation from some Santro owners. I may never buy a Hyundai, nor will I recommend one to anyone. But if someone likes a Hyundai and wants to buy one, I would never try to thrust my choice on that person, the way some Santro owners tried to do with me.

Yes I hate Hyundai and no amount of justification can change that at this point. May be over the years, this perception will change.

Last edited by Car-Agey : 8th September 2009 at 16:49.
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Old 8th September 2009, 17:27   #199
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LOL Read 2 pages at the end and each post says there is no point to this thread but still keeps posting. Now gone to 14 pages.

You guys should drive JEEPS. It teaches one some humility.
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Old 8th September 2009, 17:31   #200
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Originally Posted by mclaren1885 View Post
In the last 2yrs I have been silent, I have had the chance to see their works in close quarters to realize how the real tuners work from the wannabe's and its been quite an eye opener. Its not that I wouldn't want to try them, infact I might have a surprise in store sometime in the near future. But I just prefer going the DIY route like Jitu, only because I want to learn it myself. If not, I WILL give my car to these two eyes closed.
Yes but seeing their work in close quarters is not the same as getting work done on your car by those tuners. Once you surprise us we will act surprised since we do not know what you are getting done and that will act as a review for reference. Till then it is advice without any validation.

Quote:
I have driven both the Elantra and the Baleno pretty extensively to warrant a comment like that. If you chose to ignore the fact that you were in the Elantra when this happened, I really can't say more.
I went with Tadu to get the tyres changed not when he was driving on the highway. Yes after we got it changed we did see the TCS light come on in the city. We assumed it was due to the rain and the tyres were new so they would have a layer of protective wax which is causing the slip. Only later did he tell me about the high speed issues.

Quote:
No offense, but kindly check the lap times to see how hard these cars were being pushed. I don't want to start another debate on this. That said, read my post properly, I have mentioned the S.drives have decent lateral grip but are horrible under braking. I find it amusing that you conveniently miss out points from my posts just to prove your theory.
Well they never timed their cars nor did they want to. They were just having fun with their cars and wanted to see the limits of the cars. You guys were the one timing the Elantra and comparing to other cars, when the rest of us were not bothered about times.

I never missed out any points. I was just not going OT in this hyundai thread.

Quote:
Ok! Agreed. But what about the instances I had in the Baleno? Anyways, can you give me an explaination asto why they behaved so horribly on Tadu's car?
It's called suspension setup. Do you know why some tyre manufacturers customize their tyres for certain cars? Bridgestone has a different line of tyres for USA/UK and another for Asia. That's because the Asian cars are usually light whereas the american european ones are heavy. Example: Bridgestone clearly says that their Turanza AR-10 tyres are meant for light jap sedans such as civic and Corolla. They recommend the ER-30 for european cars.

Quote:
Viddy! I have spent enough money on cars and mods to realize the good from the bad (albeit a little late). Atleast for my own reference in future or for those people who value my opinion. Also, most reviews on this forum are from initial test-drives about every car under the sun, so according to your theory, just because people don't own them or didn't put their money down means they don't have the right to dish out advice? I find that funny and convenient to prove your point.
Posting an initial test drive review is different from what you are posting. You post what you think of a car after a short drive, you don't post that this car is great and a person who does not buy them has a skewed perception and is biased. Read my reviews on most of the cars I've driven to understand this better.

Quote:
Only because I say the swift rattles? Kindly check the thread specifically started for rattles on the Swift. 98% owners complain of severe rattles.
Yes it rattles, when did i ever deny that??? If a person wants to buy it he will know that from that thread. But after reading this thread, it will not make a buyer go out and buy a hyundai.

Quote:
Not if people BUY a swift. But when a new comer comes around asking for advice on what car to buy, if owners do conveniently forget to mention the bad build quality, it is being biased. I think I have mentioned this point already.
The new comer will search and find the rattling thread like you mentioned earlier since 98% complained of rattles.

Quote:
Viddy, just to make things easier for you, kindly head over to the travelogues section and read my Yercaud thread. I can show you countless such threads, but whats the point? You just wont look at the other end of the coin.
Now what does the Yercaud thread have to do with this???


Quote:
Whether it was worth it or not is for you to decide. I can't comment on that. But, given the sufficient budget, I am yet to come across threads where people have recommended a Getz over Punto, Swift, Palio etc. 90% of the times, its not even mentioned on the threads. Wonder why?
The getz is old and has been replaced with the i20. The 1.3L was lacklustre, the 1.1L was a joke and the CRDi was an after thought to compete with the Swift D. No features including no ABS in a car which was priced at 6.6L on road bangalore.

The emotional part of your reply to me was not worth replying to. Didn't you just agree to Akshay when he said the Accent handled very poorly.

Anyways, the accent sold in decent numbers since it was a practical car but not fun to drive and not very expensive. Then they just lost the plot with the Verna priced way too high.

I have driven the Getz CRDi and the Verna D a few times. Both a royal pain to drive in stop go bangy traffic. The Verna's handling was like a pogo stick. The swift D was far easier in traffic and I loved the handling/chuckability.

That said I did recommend hyundai Getz to 2 colleagues and Santro to 2 colleagues which they bought and are happy with. They wanted something smooth from A to B.
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Old 8th September 2009, 17:35   #201
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None of the cars from A-Star to Camry were meant to be driven on the track so my post is strictly from a normal car buyer's perspective.

If I buy car x over car y then it doesn't mean that car y is a piece of crap and car x is the best in the world. What it means is that car x had the least amount of compromise in terms of features, price etc etc. Maybe car y was a better overall car but I preferred car x. Not everyone thinks Aishwarya Rai is the most beautiful woman in the world. I, sure, don't think so.

Coming to me, everything that I am writing now are already there on this forum so you can hold me to it.

I bought the SX4 even though I thought Verna was and still is a better buy. Reasons for buying SX4.

I bought the Punto over the i20 because:

- i20 didn't have a diesel in June when I bought the Punto.
- Even if it did, I would still buy the Punto because the price was better and I find that the Punto has better ride and handling and steering set up. I have not driven the i20 - the Hyundai dealer didn't give me a TD of either the petrol or Crdi, but people's opinion here agrees with mine.
- It is possible that i20 may smoke the Punto on track but I don't drive on the track. I drive on public roads where the Punto's suspension is far superior to anything Hyundai has. Again, I may not be right, maybe Hyundai's suspension and steering is actually far better and I know crap about cars, but I feel more comfortable driving a Punto with it's wonderful suspension and steering set up.

When would I buy the i20?

- Punto 75bhp, i20 74bhp - Punto.
- Punto 75bhp, i20 90bhp - Punto - better suspension, ride etc. Pete can take care of performance if I want to.
- Punto 75bhp, i20 110bhp from Verna- i20. I can live with the dead steering and soft suspension.
- Punto 90bhp, i20 110bhp - Punto. Same reason as Punto 75 and i20 90bhp.
- Punto 1.6L MJD 120bhp, i20 90 / 110bhp - Do I really have to spell this out?

Feel free to look up the above posts, it's there in the forum somewhere.

Moral of the story: I didn't buy Hyundai because I found competition better. If Verna Crdi had ABS and Airbags in 2007, I would have one now.

If i20 came with the same Verna engine, I would have one now.

Somewhere on this post, someone spoke about people saying Fiat cars are built with passion as if other manufacturer's dont make cars with the same passion. Yes, they don't. One look at Punto and SX4 shows that for Maruti, SX4 is just another product that they got to sell in the market. The Punto just seems like it was made with a lot of love, attention and yes, passion. Don't ask me to define these things. These are intangables and have to felt. They can't be spoken about and defined. Again, it's subjective and it's in the little things that I find passion. It's just that little extra that the manufacturer thought of and put in the car, something that no one else though about.

- When I sit in the Punto, from the driver's seat when I look at the passenger side ORVM, the design gives the car a very sporty look. That's built with passion for me. One look at that and I go Muuah! Go ahead try it out!
- The Punto's steering with those contours. Whoever thought of that is a bloody genius! That's built with passion.
- I find the heavy door's of the Punto as built with passion, someone else (including me) may find the I-VTEC roaring at 7000rpm built with passion while someone else may find the gushing torque of the Verna's Crdi unit built with passion. To each his own.
- I feel VW's blue and red instrumentation lighting is built with passion. I will buy a Jetta over a Laura just for VW's blue and red lighting.
- I feel VW and Fiat's red spot lighting on the gear area is built with passion.
- A Punto makes me want to drive it even though it's not a performance machine. I don't look forward to driving the SX4. That's built with passion.

Point I am trying to make is passion is not just in 0-100kmph timing, torque gush, turbo whoosh or in performing on a track. It's in the little, sometimes mundane things. Sometimes, it's in things that most people never notice but some crazy people like I, do.
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Old 8th September 2009, 17:37   #202
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For me, my perception against Hyundai is not a baseless one.

First of all, most of the Hyundai cars in India except i20 are un-inspiring in design. They don't make anyone look at it a second time. Clear examples: Santro, Getz, Accent, Elantra.

Hyundai tried a lot to copy others. They copied the design of Jaguar for Sonata, and even Jaguar's naming schemes (XK etc) for their 'copied' 3-lakh dabba car Santro.

Then they started pricing their cars too high, thinking that they are a 'luxury' car maker. Examples: i10, i20, Verna.

They lied a lot in their advertisements that their small cars are very much in a bigger league. Example: They are thinking that a very small car like i10, and even Santro are in the league of Swift!

And they lied a lot in their advertisements to make other manufacturers and cars un-worthy - remember their ads against Maruti-Suzuki and Swift.

And now, they are trying to position the brand 'HYUNDAI' internationally as a luxury car maker and their sister concern KIA as a low-cost manufacturer! (Like Toyota and Lexus).
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Old 8th September 2009, 17:45   #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kb100 View Post
Friend - I am recommending a car - not the driver!
Dude - those were your words only without edits. as below
Quote:
Originally Posted by kb100 View Post
The biggest problem is to meet someone who knows how to drive their cars.
I'm only intrigued by the fact that this thread is a question on T-BHP as to why its not recommending enough of Hyundai's cars basis bias & deduction of your comment seems to be - its difficult to find someone who can drive this car to enjoy its full potential (is it so or you meant something else?). And hence the question would you recommend it on a forum (to a stranger whose driving skills you do not know) if this is the case.

Anyways, it was just a little small query. Pls carry on.
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Old 8th September 2009, 18:25   #204
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Viddy, I wont argue with you on the other points here, we can take the discussion offline.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vid6639 View Post
you don't post that this car is great and a person who does not buy them has a skewed perception and is biased.
I didn't intend to say that those who do not buy/like the Getz/Elantra are skewed/biased.

When I say skewed/biased its to comments like these without any meaningful proof:

Quote:
Hyundai as a manufacturer is crap
Quote:
I don't feel like driving a Getz or any Hyundai for that matter.
Quote:
Quality of i20 is not very high.
Quote:
Yes I hate Hyundai and no amount of justification can change that at this point.
Comments like the ones above are the reason I find people to be biased. And you and many others mistook it that I am saying just because people don't feel the same about the Getz/Elantra I am calling them skewed/biased? Get the point? Its not biased against a car A/B. But Hyundai in general as evident from the posts above.

Quote:
If a person wants to buy it he will know that from that thread.
I am sorry but let me tell you I have hardly come across any Swift onwer owning up that the Swift rattles a lot. Its only the others who point this out.

Quote:
But after reading this thread, it will not make a buyer go out and buy a hyundai.
People are not kids here, that they will read this thread and go buy a Hyundai. The point of this thread was NOT that. I have mentioned in the few lines above this, the reason I used the words skewed/biased wrt to Hyundai as a company and not particular cars.

Quote:
The new comer will search and find the rattling thread like you mentioned earlier since 98% complained of rattles.
Viddy, please head to the "what car" section. Lots of new comers are totally unaware of the rattle issues with the swift. I myself have posted this on several threads.

Quote:
Now what does the Yercaud thread have to do with this???
Kindly read it first and you will understand.

Quote:
Didn't you just agree to Akshay when he said the Accent handled very poorly.
Yes! When have I ever mentioned the Accent handles well anywhere on this forum? I just pointed out the fact that people generalize all Hyundai cars to be bad handlers, but the Elantra is not in the same category, neither is the I20. The Getz is not as bad as people make it out to be, but this is mostly because of the general opinion of the rest of the cars by Hyundai. Thats it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amit View Post
None of the cars from A-Star to Camry were meant to be driven on the track
Amit, my post was intended to be wrt to road use only. But since Shantanu wanted hard figrues, I had to bring in a track time. Otherwise everything else would be speculative.

Quote:
If I buy car x over car y then it doesn't mean that car y is a piece of crap and car x is the best in the world.
Exactly, but do read up some comments I have highlighted in bold on this very post. Its comments like "calling a car crap just because its Korean" is what I term as being biased/skewed.

Quote:
Moral of the story: I didn't buy Hyundai because I found competition better.
Exactly my point. You can have many reasons for not buying a Hyundai. But are posts calling "Hyundai as a manufac is CRAP" justified?
Quote:
Yes, they don't.
Quote:
may find the I-VTEC roaring at 7000rpm built with passion while someone else may find the gushing torque of the Verna's Crdi unit built with passion. To each his own.
Exactly my point. Everyone defines passion in different ways. Claiming just Fiat builds its cars with passion while the others don't is just as unfair as labeling a brand you haven't tried crap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VahanPujari
And hence the question would you recommend it on a forum (to a stranger whose driving skills you do not know) if this is the case.
I won't say I can justify on Sujit's behalf. But I would like to add a point here. Say a car A is loaded with safety features. Now I would recommend it to a good/bad driver anyways. A good driver, can use these safety features too, whereas a bad driver for sure will be helped quite a lot if something untoward is to happen. Bottom line is, its good to recommend a car (since Elantra is the topic discussed here) that is safe.

Now, any car can be driven really well/poorly. That depends on the driver, doesn't it? A car A in X (good) drivers hand can be driven brilliantly, while the same car A in Y (average) drivers hand might not do so well. Now if Y was to comment that car A is crap, would you then take his comments more seriously or the driver X who is universally known as the better driver?

Let us throw out every TBHPian out of the equation. Did I hear someone mention a few rally drivers owning Elantra's? I know a few friends who are close buddies with a few rally drivers. I would take their word for it because unlike us they have been there done that, those guys know what a "good handling" car is. I would say a rally driver can be classified as Mr.X (good driver) and if he says A car is good while a Mr.Y (bad driver) says A car is rubbish, whose views would you take more seriously? X or Y?
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Old 8th September 2009, 18:35   #205
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Interesting discussion. But can I ask the OP something? So what if some people (probably a minority) think Hyundai is crap without sufficient justification? There will exist people who will always call all Fiats unreliable or all Hondas expensive or and so on without knowing the true picture. Why bother with them? Its clearly not a majority who think Hyundai is crap for no reason.
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Old 8th September 2009, 18:54   #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mclaren1885 View Post
.....

...
....
. I would take their word for it because unlike us they have been there done that, those guys know what a "good handling" car is. I would say a rally driver can be classified as Mr.X (good driver) and if he says A car is good while a Mr.Y (bad driver) says A car is rubbish, whose views would you take more seriously? X or Y?
normal buyer is not Mr. X (rally driver). a normal driver is not race driver he cannot handle the car as Mr. X can do. he will take TD of all cars in his segment and buy the one which handles well for him, rather then getting influenced by Mr. X opinions.

P.S.: don't flame me I am not against you I am only curious to know what would be the outcome such thread

Last edited by FERRO : 8th September 2009 at 18:57.
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Old 8th September 2009, 18:58   #207
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But why are some people so obessed with Hyundai, start a tread about TATA or Skoda or any brand, you will find quite a few people bashing these brands.

I call TATA cars as crap, my perception is not biased, I think Skoda dealers are cheats and I dont recommend it any one, my perception is not biased. When I say Maruti makes rattling tin boxes my perception is not biased, but when I say "I hate Hyndai" (I find their cars to be the ugliest) I have a skewed perception.

Thats why I said perceptions are perceptions, we have perceptions about every brand, they wont change by reading these threads.

Last edited by Car-Agey : 8th September 2009 at 19:02.
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Old 8th September 2009, 20:04   #208
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I totally agree with miclaren1885,many people don't give much attention to hyundai and its cars.
I mean-i have heard lots of people saying on this forum that i20 has a very light steering but i would also like to metion here that a fellow member on this forum also mention that he found the steering of his i20 heavier than his honda-crv.Now the question is-why haven't any one else mentioned this fact,is this because its very difficult to digest that a 22 lakhs car has a lighter steering?
No,i believe that all cars have +tives and -tives,for people who are not much affected by the -tives of a perticular car goes on to buy that and the ones who are affected by its -tives looks out for other options.Once you buy a car that means you have accepted its -tives and are ready to live with it-After all their is no car that can appeal to all!
It all comes down to our own perception,how we weight the +tive features and -tive features of a car,which faeture appeals to us and if some car doesn't,it doesn't mean it is not a good car.
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Old 8th September 2009, 21:16   #209
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Elantra and Getz D are good cars, and they do their intended jobs well. For me Elantra looks nice and I may be the only one who may feel that.

As to why some people have skewed perceptions on Hyundai; its their belief and leave it at that. No one can force anyone else to have a like minded perception/opinion.

In my case I would never consider a TATA car (except for a Safari) though I've travelled in an Indica and found it comfortable. But I would never want to seen driving one. But this doesnt mean that someone should go about trying to mend my opinion.
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Old 8th September 2009, 21:28   #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mclaren1885 View Post
To begin with, I have noticed a general tendency wherein people have a blocked mindset when it comes to cars. Some people can't see beyond a Honda, some Suzi, others Fiat and so on.... Honestly, I have been guilty as charged for the same. But then, one begins to learn with time.

But what comes as a rude shock is that many a times, people shoot of comments (mostly negative) WITHOUT even driving the car they are talking about. Which I feel IMO is improper and uncalled for.

Stereotyping has become the norm of the day. And we at TBHP swear by that we should stand up for the truth? Do we? Is the real question. What if a Korean manufacturer churns out a good car amongst a horde of ordinary ones? Are we so blinded by our ability to see things that we could care less to give it a try and put out an honest review? Instead what we see happening is scores of members just rubbishing some cars off without even TD it.
.
Hyundai is #2 or #3 in India after only around 12 years. They have broken into the top 5 globally.

I dont see any reason for them to worry.
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