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Old 11th July 2005, 01:56   #16
RJK
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I think we should stop basking in the glory that TATA was the first manufacturer & all blah blah blah...Its 7years down the line since Indica has been launched now & shift remains as pathetic as it was & so does the engine. Even after 7years we don't see any engine upgrade in terms of driveability & I'm not even talking performance. If this isn't complacency, then I don't know what is. I agree with Ported that you constantly need to shift to get anywhere.
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The Indica was meant to be a car for the average Indian with more than just a nuclear family to travel in comfort at a very low running cost.
Right. So that should justify the horrible engine & useless transmission.
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The Indica is also over-engineered to cope with the inevitable overloading that happens when relatives come visiting.
I agree that it can take more people but saying its over engineered is taking it too far.
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I tend to agree, because the Indica's brief was never to cater to a road-ripper
A road ripper would never ever give Indica a 2nd look.

Btw, we had an Indica until last year. I've always appreciated the good things about the car like space & comfort, but you just can't cover up the negatives of the car by saying first indian car manufacturer blah blah especially considering the time frame i.e 7 years.
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Originally Posted by Stratos
Its a P-E-R-F-E-C-T car for a middle class Indian who wants a cheap, big, fuel efficient vehicle and which is why it has no competition actually.
& then people forget the original purpose of the car & drive it like a WRC car on the roads at night
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Originally Posted by Ported_head
run a Tata Indica to the ground for 2 years or 50,000 kms, whichever comes first and then sell it. Reasons, the car starts to fall apart.
Exactly what we did. Post 2years, the car can be quite a pain to hold on to.

Last edited by RJK : 11th July 2005 at 02:02.
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Old 11th July 2005, 04:36   #17
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I don't have the clue how the others got the idea, but, I never looked for the Indica to be a road ripper, if I buy one, it sure as hell won't do duty as one.
Easier said than done. Everytime i find myself in the Wagon R i say to myself "Ok boy, lets take it nice and easy, this ain't no Vtec" and then, out of nowhere i see this Santro zip past me and that's that. LOL

If you're an enthusiast, no matter what you drive, u can never resist giving it the stick, once in a while.

The only reason i'm alive today is bcoz i rarely drive the Wagon R.

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They run a Tata Indica to the ground for 2 years or 50,000 kms, whichever comes first and then sell it. R
eason, their not mine, the car almost falls apart.
Did you get punched in the face after making that statement? If not, then "IT MUST BE TRUE".

Shan2nu

Last edited by Shan2nu : 11th July 2005 at 04:40.
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Old 11th July 2005, 14:21   #18
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Originally Posted by Steeroid
I tend to agree, because the Indica's brief was never to cater to a road-ripper
Somehow I must have missed this part too. Simply, it was never supposed to cater to my road-ripper antics, that is what you seem to call it, though I consider myself to be quite a sedate driver. It was just supposed to justify it's 4.5 lakh price tag, which it failed to, miserably. 7 years back, maybe, they have had enough time to get their tooling right, and choose the right component supplier and do away with quality issues.

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Originally Posted by Steeroid
who is obviously swayed by big names on little things like the VDO on the dials.
I just have an eye for detail. BTW, that doesn't sound right coming from somebody who drives a Brabus Smart.
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Old 11th July 2005, 14:31   #19
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@Ported, Just to understand your point better, where do you position Indica's interior with respect to Maruti 800, Alto LXi, Santrol eRLX (or whatever it is)? I assume, Interior is your biggest grudge against Indica.
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Old 11th July 2005, 14:43   #20
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See pal, if you are not going to save any money buying a diesel because of how many kilometres you are going to log every month, just go for the Swift.

I went to the next door Maruti dealership, after my Indica test drive. And the interiors of the Swift are definitely a notch above the Indica's. The materials are touch-friendly, there are no aluminium wires hanging out below the seats, well laid out interiors, and the LXi makes good sense, money wise too.

Close your eyes and go for the Swift. Sure the interior space isn't as generous as the Indica, but if it isn't a major concern, there isn't another thing that the Indica does better. But I am yet to test drive the Swift, so maybe the owners can elaborate more.
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Old 11th July 2005, 14:49   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RX135
@Ported, Just to understand your point better, where do you position Indica's interior with respect to Maruti 800, Alto LXi, Santrol eRLX (or whatever it is)? I assume, Interior is your biggest grudge against Indica.
Definitely better than the Maruti 800s and the Alto, which are almost the same, I am yet to take a better look at the Xings though. Indica is quite a bit more expensive than these, so I though it would be better.

A good friend owns a last gen Santro, and the interiors didn't seem as flimsy as the Indica's, and have held up very well even at close to 90,000 kms. But I will reserve my comment till I get a thorough look at the eRLXs.

Yes, interior quality and gearshift is my biggest grudge. Also these could be extremely subjective. I am glad that I put a disclaimer in my first post.
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Old 11th July 2005, 15:26   #22
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Originally Posted by normally_crazy
does that mean that if a car is built for generous sized people , offering them comfortable ride and great FE while carrying the whole family - you should expect pathetic quality of materials used inside ? we are inside the car while we drive and the least we expect is some acceptable quality of interior materials. the interiors of a brand new car that Ported has described - would you take it , if you got 17 kmpl with great ride quality and good interior space ??
The quality of materials is functional, not exactly pathetic. I am not justifying the Indicas interiors and I have said this is one area they are yet to work on (after having worked on the mechanicals and the exterior). However, for the average family buying their first car, the colour or quality of the interior is not exactly on top of their priority list and this car has addressed their priorities. Like I said, they need competition to push them to do other things they are capable of.


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Originally Posted by ported_head
It was just supposed to justify it's 4.5 lakh price tag, which it failed to, miserably. 7 years back, maybe, they have had enough time to get their tooling right, and choose the right component supplier and do away with quality issues.

I just have an eye for detail. BTW, that doesn't sound right coming from somebody who drives a Brabus Smart.
Well, about a 100,000 people every year seem to think that its Pros are worth the 4.5 lakhs over the Cons that you have pointed out. See how your dad was beaming - obviously he is the one putting the money down and therefore he is happy. The point is that

Your priorities are different - instead of trying to change the Indica, you should look for another car when you are putting your money down.

As for the Smart Brabus - I bought the CONCEPT of an ultra-small, two seater, convertible, fuel efficient, rear engine city runabout which comes with all features like ESP, ABS, TCS, EBD and a six-speed Tiptonic gearbox and is as fun to drive as a Go-kart - NOT THE NAME!

I dont have a clue as to who made the dials or the gearshift knob on this car or any other that I own....

Quote:
Originally Posted by RJK
Right. So that should justify the horrible engine & useless transmission.
The transmission is jelly-like in feel but you dont get mis-shifts. For the market it addresses, function is more important than feel. As for the engine, it is detuned and needs to be revved to pull - it is NOT a horrible engine by any yardstick. In fact, as an engine its pretty good as it seems to last quite a distance and take a lot of punishment.

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Originally Posted by RJK
& then people forget the original purpose of the car & drive it like a WRC car on the roads at night
They do?????????? I didnt think that was physically possible!


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Originally Posted by 2fast4u
Pls enlighten me if the EURO III Diesel really makes all that noise which i have read from many magazines.
As ported_head said, the Indica is quieter on the inside than it is on the outside, as the noise levels are quite tolerable for a diesel. Dont take what you read in the mags for gospel truth - if all of India did that, the cars selling today wouldnt be and those that are out of the market would be the big sellers! They have they own agenda to push and they also tend to get emotional about vehicles and worse yet - try to push their 'favourites' blindly.

Test drive one and decide whether you like it. Else, hire one of the numerous Indica cabs and find out for yourself. Simple as that!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RJK
They run a Tata Indica to the ground for 2 years or 50,000 kms, whichever comes first and then sell it. R
eason, their not mine, the car almost falls apart.
Not amongst the Indica owners I know - their cars have held up well for much longer. A friend of mine also operates a taxi business and I've seen his Indicas last well beyond 100,000...

Whats the second hand market for an Indica like? If that market is strong, it shows that the car has takers even if pre-owned, which means it must be lasting...



This debate can go on for ever. However, my original posting sums it up:

1. The car addresses the requirements of a market, which seems to be accepting about 10,000 of them every month. Obviously the pros must outweigh the cons for that market.

2. Tatas have not had competition, and hence may have become a bit complacent. However, RX135's views on the various improvements to the Indica are an indication that they are working on the car - perhaps not fast enough.

3. We hear that Tatas are readying a lineup of Common Rail diesels - when these come, I'm sure the performance issue will be addressed. However, the accent will certainly be on fuel-efficiency as that is the market they are addressing. Yes, they could be a bit more proactive and perhaps offer the 70bhp intercooled engine on the Euro III Indigo with the top-end Indica - the point is, will they get more customers for these vehicles than they would for additional units of the original that they could have built with the same capacity at a lower cost? I doubt it.
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Old 11th July 2005, 15:46   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid
The quality of materials is functional, not exactly pathetic. I am not justifying the Indicas interiors and I have said this is one area they are yet to work on (after having worked on the mechanicals and the exterior). However, for the average family buying their first car, the colour or quality of the interior is not exactly on top of their priority list and this car has addressed their priorities. Like I said, they need competition to push them to do other things they are capable of.
Priority here is FE - we have discussed that in another thread !!

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Originally Posted by Steeroid
We hear that Tatas are readying a lineup of Common Rail diesels - when these come,
Yawn - we have been waiting for ages for the safari to the get the treatment and its no where in sight !! so indica crdi - in the near future
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Old 11th July 2005, 15:56   #24
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what do u mean by common rail. give me a break first of all i am trying to learn more on cars (as bikes is my primary interest) so pls help if there is separate section on these terms pls let me know where i could learn from.
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Old 11th July 2005, 16:10   #25
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I too had a pre v-2 indica in delhi .inspite of having a driver i used to do all the driving.

since it di dnot have a tacho i cannot comment on the rpm.
till 100 kph ,the performance was ok,but after that u need long runway to reach 120kph.even a fully loaded tata 407 LCV would keep up with me till 100kph on the speedo.

abt the handling :- as long as its a straighr stretch its manageable.but if one a ghat or on turns if ripped hard,then u can feel the front slipping.so its not at al meant to be driven like other cars,as its not a car .its a truck.but when u ar einside you feel as if you are in boat.

the brakes were also pathetic.there was no differnce between the clutch or the brake pedal.the clutch was as hard as teh brake pedal.


i was used to driving this truck for more than a year and so when i drove my zen for the first time ,the clutch pedal almost went through the floor of my car ,as i was used to standing on it while driving the indica.



the only pros for an indica are its FE and its ride quality.

abt the indigo,turbo or no -turbo, it sukks.have seen a friends totalled indigo while toppled 3 times while swerving at 80- 100 kphto avoid a cyclist .

the Fiat diesels are definitely better vehicles.but fiat's ASS is theone thats stopping everyone.
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Old 11th July 2005, 16:52   #26
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THe discussion is on the Indica. Must we bring Fiat into everything?
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Old 11th July 2005, 16:57   #27
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Originally Posted by Steeroid
Must we bring Fiat into everything?
Fiat cars are "Gods gift to Indians", hence it will crop up in all the posts
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Old 11th July 2005, 17:22   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid
Well, about a 100,000 people every year seem to think that its Pros are worth the 4.5 lakhs over the Cons that you have pointed out. See how your dad was beaming - obviously he is the one putting the money down and therefore he is happy. The point is that

Your priorities are different - instead of trying to change the Indica, you should look for another car when you are putting your money down.
True, my priorities are different, and I am going to try with all my might to prevent my father from buying an Indica. Or maybe just prolong his purchase, who knows, some competition might just crop up.

I'm not trying to change the Indica, for every buyer they lose, they probably find another three prospects, so I probably won't be able to mend Tata's ways even if I wanted to. I just wanted to find out how many people on the forum were happy with what they were being offered on the Indica. If the consumers won't show Tata the light, who will?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid
As for the Smart Brabus - I bought the CONCEPT of an ultra-small, two seater, convertible, fuel efficient, rear engine city runabout which comes with all features like ESP, ABS, TCS, EBD and a six-speed Tiptonic gearbox and is as fun to drive as a Go-kart - NOT THE NAME!
So how many ways do you think somebody's statement might be interpreted when read by different people ?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid
I dont have a clue as to who made the dials or the gearshift knob on this car or any other that I own....
Let me see if I can find anything on those. You can never know enough!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid
Whats the second hand market for an Indica like? If that market is strong, it shows that the car has takers even if pre-owned, which means it must be lasting...
I don't know how many of them get picked off the second hand lots, but I know a lot of them do appear on the lots every month. Quite a few of them couple of years old.....



The closest to a Tata Common Rail that we have gotten so far seems to be the Safari. Unless we can get some insider information, I think the CR Indica and Indigo must be quite some time away. I haven't even heard anything on the turbocharged Indica yet, news to which was posted on the forum.
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Old 11th July 2005, 17:30   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ported_head
The closest to a Tata Common Rail that we have gotten so far seems to be the Safari. Unless we can get some insider information, I think the CR Indica and Indigo must be quite some time away. I haven't even heard anything on the turbocharged Indica yet, news to which was posted on the forum.
The model change year for the Indica is allegedly 2007, but I think that would be far too late. Sales should start tapering off from later this year as new models keep hitting the market - it has started happening with a 5% slide after the Swift launch. If they dont move fast enough, the market will punish them.
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Old 11th July 2005, 18:16   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by ported head

The closest to a Tata Common Rail that we have gotten so far seems to be the Safari. Unless we can get some insider information, I think the CR Indica and Indigo must be quite some time away. I haven't even heard anything on the turbocharged Indica yet, news to which was posted on the forum.
inside info says that the safari Crd-i might be launched sometime close to diwali, and it's competitor, the fortuner, sometime may, next year (damn). but the turbo diesel indica, and a petrol one, with the indigo's 85 bhp engine, both termed as "indica sport", will hit the markets soon. their launch was delayed, because tata was having trouble coping up with the existing demands itself.... now that the swift's been launched, tata needs to get it's act together, and fast.....

and agreed, an enthusiast cares about each and every little detail, about every ride that passes by the super highway that is his mind- but the point to be kept in highlight is- what purpose is that car meant for...?? a petrolhead is always going to complain about the nitty gritties of the indica- but it isn't meant to be a burnout machine...

but, regarding the quality points, yes, tata could have done a little better- the so called "all-new indica" with a revised interior/exterior design simply isn't enough; although it's better than all others in it's segment, including the santro, and stands second only to the swift and the palio. the getz is a close third....

as the market is evolving, so is the consumer. but that doesn't mean that he can expect 997 quality levels from an indica- the indica has reasonable value, and it comes across as a good commuter machine. as for the price, the palio D, it's closest competitor after the recently discontinued zen D ( which was a disaster except for it's excellent F.E) costs a good 60 grand more (elx ps, w/o ABS and airbags), but offers almost the same amount of interior quality and refinement.

but if you can wait a li'l bit more, you might be able to get your hands on the indica turbo...


p.s- welcome, 2fast4u..... you can search more info about the crdi, or common rail direct injection (an advanced form of fuel injection for diesels), in this forum using the search function- it should help..... and also, tata's service guys are not so bad- they are as good, if not better, than their competitors... the indica diesel is a good car, but weigh in your priorities first- is the rear space a concern? is the car meant to be a family ride? the swift is a great car, but like i said, put your priorities in front of you first....
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