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Old 12th July 2005, 14:30   #46
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so what would be the cost to revamp the interior - 15 to 20k???????
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Old 12th July 2005, 14:45   #47
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Originally Posted by v1p3r
FYI, both the Alto Spin 1.1 and the Zen D are not sold anymore. The Alto 1.1 hasn't been sold for over a year!

Thanks dude..and sorry folks...

And another car that I forgot to mention is the Getz. Well it also falls the class of Palio and Sail.

Secondly, the Swift (that i mentioned) in the post is the base model, of course.
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Old 12th July 2005, 17:39   #48
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Originally Posted by GTO
But we cannot discount what the car already offers to the Indian buyer.
GTO
Very true GTO ..

I bought the Indica 2000 petrol during a cash crunch phase .. and somehow have grown to love it .. it has its faults no doubt (and a lot more than the V2) but then I get a decent amount of whack when I floor it and considering I paid peanuts for it, I'm happy to live with the negatives plus the 1/2 seconds performance difference and the 1/2kmpl FE difference with comparable cars .. since I primarily commute within the city ..

I'm pretty sure I'll keep it even when I upgrade to the C segment ..
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Old 12th July 2005, 22:54   #49
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Originally Posted by 2fast4u
Anyway if i need more help on deciding on the LGi will contact u hope u dont mind if i PM u on this.
no problem, but I cant send you a reply as your inbox is full or something...

btw GTO, nicely put....
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Old 13th July 2005, 11:51   #50
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I have been listening to this and feel that rational should be provided by the owners of the Indica about their experience with this car, who have spent more time in that rather spending just 15-20 minutes in it and arriving at the conclusions.
I'm one of the proud owners of this really VFM car. Let me put my two cents here.
As far as deciding a car for daily drive of around 50km, I think, it is no brainer that the choice will arrive at Indica diesel only(I'm talking about brain's decision and not heart's and also considering the spending power of people in that range).
But here the debate is about, are you really getting that much value for the money being paid. My question to ported_head is that have you really compared the interious of Indica with cars available at the similar price range? I have checked WagonR/santro/Palio and even swift and I feel they are at par or a very little bit better. But if you check the price difference between Indica and these cars (let me tell you Indica DLS on road comes to around 3.85 to 3.9, if you negotiate well) they should have had one hell of a Interiors. And if someone is so finiky about interiors, it hardly costs around 10k to redo interiors and if u want to go for wodden door handles and ac covering, it will got upto 25k) Regarding various knobs(wiper, headlights, signling lights ...), I find them pretty good. Glove box, change holder all are fine and do their job and don't just fall of as you found in test drive car. And tell me how many times one touches them.
Gear shift is one thing, which I agree is a bit annoying but as someone said it does its function very well and shifting is the matter of practice, once you are used to it, it will always be smooth.
Performance is another thing on the downside but sometimes I feel it is relative. There is no doubt that you need rev it more to really pull it, but once you understand it's power band, I don't think its that bad. You should know when to shift, I have seen many Santros/Wagonrs drivers not able to pull quickly because of the improper gear shift. Since I drive alone, without any additional weight, I'm able to race with many of these lighter b-segmenters. But ya with AC off.
And almost everybody here is saying that there is no competetion hence tata is enjoying, you think other manufactures are fools, no, they are trying their best to produce a car like this in the same budget but not able to, why is fiat selling a similar car but charing 60-70k more. Who does'nt want to make money, ultimately these car company's are out there to make money and not to satisfy car enthusiasts desires, so wherever they see opportunity they grab it, but nobody has been able to come even close to Tatas as far as Indica is concerned and hats off to tata for that.
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Old 13th July 2005, 12:26   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rajdoll
I have been listening to this and feel that rational should be provided by the owners of the Indica about their experience with this car, who have spent more time in that rather spending just 15-20 minutes in it and arriving at the conclusions.

Well, I agree, maybe the VFM bit is stretching it a bit, and I have also been advised not to take an enthusiast's approach to the car (and I'm not talking performance here). But, tell me something, what is the modus operandi that I should use to arrive at a conclusion? We all agree that we certainly can't use auto mags for a decision, some biased, some enthusiasts, some just plain boring.

Going by what you say, I'm also not supposed to form an opinion of the car, by the test drive and the 15-20 mins I spend in the car. I have Indicas in my complex which are literally falling apart at close to 2 years of ownership, while Steeroid knows taxi operators who have done 90K's on the odo and still no problems. So, woe is me? How do I decide?


My personal opinion, 50 km daily driving, I would probably stick to a petrol burner.

I have spent time in other cars too, though haven't owned any of them, so I'm not sure if my opinion counts. I did go for a Swift test drive right after the Indica's and I found the Swift cabin a happier place to be in. I do prefer the Palio's interiors too, I don't know if this is a case of just personal opinion.

If I were to buy an Indica, it would be to do duty just providing me FE and ride and comfort, so why should I spend any money on the interiors? That's not what the market wants, right? Tata would have already done it otherwise.

The convenience tray would have fallen out if I were to spend 5 more intimate minutes with it. Have you seen the way the coin holder is made? Cottage industries would have done a better job. But, no offense, I just have an eye for detail.

I cannot comment on other people's driving skills, nor do I intend to race the Indica, if I do buy one, with any of the other B-segmenters, otherwise I'd have to take a performance enthusiast's point of view, and the Indica would just get struck off the list.
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Old 13th July 2005, 12:44   #52
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Hmmm i see the situation as your dad wanting to go for the indica while you didn't like it and dont relish the idea of driving the indica.
I have owned the indica for more than three years. Its not falling apart. Its reliable, its FE.
But if you drive a petrol car for one month, getting back to the indica is painful for a couple of days. Yes it is grossly underpowered.

About the other griped such as interiors and refinement, well i must say they are acedamic. Depends on person to person. Indica is a well built car, though the plastics are cheap. But if you look at the engineering, corners have not been cut. For example the doors are of think metal, but still Tata puts in thick side impact beams. I have been banged from the side by a 800 who was doing around 30, and that day i thanked Tata for the weight.

But looking at your needs, the indica will not make you happy. It will frustrate you. I know many people who emerge out of the indica frustrated. Once you get spoilt by a wagonR/Santro etc., indica frustrates you. Infact it may take you an year to start appreciating the positives, but believe me its only the lack of power which causes this unpleasentness.

My suggestion. Ask your dad to wait for a couple of months as Tata can introduce the TDi indica any time soon. If waiting is not possible try convincing him to raise the budget by a lakh and go for indigo TDi. If you drive that car you will realize what tata meant by the tagline "Spoil yourself". Power is adequate except for drag races at red lights. 130kmph is easily sustainable and FE is amazing. Quality of plastics and interiors are a notch above. You can check out my review of the same in long term reviews section, though it is of the 62bhp indigo, the 70bhp will be even more fun.

However if your dad insists on not waiting and going for the indica only right now, well all i can say is "best of luck"! It will be frustrating, painful and many time you will want to get out and push the car. But as you get used to it you will start appreciating the smooth ride, the stability at high speeds., the ability to take corners much better as compared to the competition tall boys. You will appreciate the large seats and lots of space. With the electronic FP in the Euro III version the jerkiness of the engine is gone now, and with a free flow and k&n you may even begin to find the power adequate!
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Old 13th July 2005, 12:53   #53
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Quote:
I have Indicas in my complex which are literally falling apart at close to 2 years of ownership,
Come on, Ported. We know it isnt that bad. My best buddy drives an Indica which has covered 70,000 kms and has held up very well. I know cos I drive it once every week.

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Old 13th July 2005, 12:54   #54
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abhay@ u can PM me now.

got a test ride of the LGi today and its OK car if its my opinion, not racy, has less torque requiring constant upshift for overtaking but once on the open road it cruises comfortably at 110 120. i think this should be it. LGi. and as someone said spend another 10k and get a new look interior. Thanks abhay for ur help.
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Old 13th July 2005, 13:07   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2fast4u
and as someone said spend another 10k and get a new look interior.
It may be more than just 10k. Last time I checked it for Petra, redoing interior (other than plastics) was around 16-20K.
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Old 13th July 2005, 13:50   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ported_head
If I were to buy an Indica, it would be to do duty just providing me FE and ride and comfort, so why should I spend any money on the interiors? That's not what the market wants, right? Tata would have already done it otherwise.
Tatas have not done that, but you still have the option by just spending a bit extra, which other car can provide you all that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ported_head
The convenience tray would have fallen out if I were to spend 5 more intimate minutes with it. Have you seen the way the coin holder is made? Cottage industries would have done a better job. But, no offense, I just have an eye for detail.
I appreciate your an eye for detail but when it comes to delivering very cost optimized product you need to make decision like what deserves what. Coin holder does its job fine if just put coins in it and not sit on it. There was absolutely no point putting thick plastic or wodden material just to hold few coins.
Regarding the cars falling apart in your society, check-out who is driving them. It depends a lot on your driving habits and the amount you drive. I bet Indica is most driven car in terms of km compared to any other B segmenter. One of my collegue owning Palio has just driven 6000km in three years. I tell you, when you drive a car with FE 18-20 and with diesel economy, you never think twice to dash off to any place. When your elders sit in the back seat with whole lot of comfort for long time, you get the feeling that this one journye itself has paid up the car price.
I thinks tatas have taken care of basic needs of an average indian, now time has come to do something to start delighting the enthusiasts too.
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Old 13th July 2005, 14:10   #57
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@ ported_head, in 1987 I had an argument with my dad over the purchase of a new TV. He wanted to buy a Solidaire 20”and I wanted him to buy an imported Panasonic 26” TV from a local “smuggler”. I was so mad at him, and he smiled at me.

The Indica is designed for people like him and your dad. My dad is no more, the Solidaire is also gone; He would have gone for a 29” without any doubt had he been around in these days of liberalization.

He was practical.

So, take a break for today, relax and read tsk1979’s post again tomorrow. Discuss (if possible) about this thread with your dad also. Listen what he says. Because the car (Indica or whatever, each has its own KARMA) your dad is going to buy will not last forever. The lessons you can learn now from him will.

Last edited by sandeepmdas : 13th July 2005 at 14:25.
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Old 13th July 2005, 14:32   #58
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Rest assured, my father will make his decision on as he feels right. He is also aware of my approach to situations such as these, though maybe little impractical at times.

The idea of this thread was just to find out, considering the number of Indicas on the road, how many people were aware of the quality issues and chose to ignore them, and how many just didn't care. Could probably also give you an idea what sort of product life cycle you are looking at for the Indica, seems like any major changes are a while away.
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Old 13th July 2005, 15:38   #59
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just been back from the cab operators Pune mumbai and they say its their first choice to have Indica over any other car as
1) Maintenance is low to negligible considering the miles driven
2) FE lots of savings.
3) go for Diesel if u just want to use the car like a two wheeler. i mean just a joy ride no planned destination.
4) They cruise between 80 to 100 and so they get the best FE & low maintenance no strain on engine.

Long term owners hope the above reasons hold good.

i feel LGi is what i should ask my sis to settle for. although I am still not convinced with its performance not just overall but the engine as main factor, probably the result of being in a charged esteem.

cheers
john

Last edited by 2fast4u : 13th July 2005 at 15:41.
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Old 13th July 2005, 16:14   #60
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Red face I am touched....

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandeepmdas
Because the car (Indica or whatever, each has its own KARMA) your dad is going to buy will not last forever. The lessons you can learn now from him will.
Hey Sandeep, That is some very Sensible, Serious and sensitive advise.
And the way you put it, Sincerely, I had tears in my eyes.

My Pa is touching 60 and I know that he is not going to be around too long. I have ceased all "wars" with him and try to see things from his-pont-of-view and believe me, most of the times he is spot-on correct.

Thanks for.....making me able to write this.

Take care, mate.
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