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Old 15th October 2009, 12:19   #631
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Originally Posted by abhi1309 View Post
Dude, Fiesta takes 11 secs for a 0-100, This one takes in excess of 17 which is the same as that of the Matiz 800cc. It is not just the space and size that people want. There are other things to look in the car
Trapezio and JKdas made it clear for you. Even if you compare Fiesta Petrol with Manza petrol 1.4 Fire, Manza is going to be pretty decent. I mean the regular crowd shud be pleased with the acceleration. Lets wait for the detailed reports as you say.
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Old 15th October 2009, 12:20   #632
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Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
Dzire is hardly any benchmark for interior quality. Atleast this wont rattle after 2k kms!
E_T seems you have not sit inside Dezire. Its way better than old indigo and other similar cars in segment. Entry level sedans don't define any benchmark but Dezire interiors are very satisfactory to prize it quotes. Manza seems to eaqual or better it though.
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Old 15th October 2009, 12:27   #633
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Originally Posted by rajivn View Post
Death knell for Dzire, Ikon and Accent. I dont see any point buying these three cars now. And serious threat for cars above and below Manza.
Especially above ones like - Fiesta, Verna, Linea, City, SX4. Infact I dont see a point buying Fiesta, Linea or Verna unless I want the looks and handling of Linea or Fiesta or power of Verna. One needs to open a thread to discuss on the possible impacts of Manza on other cars. How would they respond by means of price cuts, new variants,etc. This car Manza redefines the whole segment.
I wish things were as simple as you put them. Do you seriously for one second believe that death knell has been delivered to Dzire and serious thread to Fiesta, Linea or City. I think a person considering a City would never go near Manza. Dzire will still lead the lower C segment and the upper C segment would be ruled by ANHC. You fail to see the point that upper C segment car customers are brand concious and lower C segment car customers too, generally are little hesitant to endorse a Tata product. This is a step in right direction, but far from a killer blow or segment changer.
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Old 15th October 2009, 12:28   #634
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Originally Posted by harry10 View Post
How many Vista's had you seen as a taxi?
I had seen one till date and that hardly makes it a taxi segment car.
However the base version might attract taxi people.
That is what, I am saying Tata will try avoiding the Taxi segment for the manza as in the case of vista. It is the earlier indica's image that rubbed off on the Indica Vista. Hope Manza stays clear of Indigos baggage in terms of image.
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Old 15th October 2009, 12:31   #635
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Originally Posted by abhi1309 View Post
Dude, Fiesta takes 11 secs for a 0-100, This one takes in excess of 17 which is the same as that of the Matiz 800cc. It is not just the space and size that people want. There are other things to look in the car
Exactly!!!
There are other things to look in the car, not just the 0-100 figures.


On paper (and images) manza looks to be an awesome package, perhaps best value for money, but it can all be a different story in market. Thought Manza seems deserving to get upper hand over dzire, let's not be to optimistic. May be we won't see sales doubled, but around 50% increase will be a good start (CS, XL excluded).

I'm crossing my fingers though!
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Old 15th October 2009, 12:42   #636
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Originally Posted by rajivn View Post
Especially above ones like - Fiesta, Verna, Linea, City, SX4. Infact I dont see a point buying Fiesta, Linea or Verna unless I want the looks and handling of Linea or Fiesta or power of Verna. One needs to open a thread to discuss on the possible impacts of Manza on other cars. How would they respond by means of price cuts, new variants,etc. This car Manza redefines the whole segment.
Are you trying to say that a person with budget of 9 lacs would settle with a Manza for 7 lacs odd? I dont think the majority would agree. I think Fiesta 1.4 TDCI might face the heat since its not that roomy and only decently powered . This seems to be a great effort from Tata, from pics quality seems to have improved. But overall this surely looks like a great package. Dzire without a doubt would face the heat.
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Old 15th October 2009, 12:44   #637
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Originally Posted by rajivn View Post
Death knell for Dzire, Ikon and Accent. I dont see any point buying these three cars now. And serious threat for cars above and below Manza.
Especially above ones like - Fiesta, Verna, Linea, City, SX4. Infact I dont see a point buying Fiesta, Linea or Verna unless I want the looks and handling of Linea or Fiesta or power of Verna. One needs to open a thread to discuss on the possible impacts of Manza on other cars. How would they respond by means of price cuts, new variants,etc. This car Manza redefines the whole segment.


Well to be frank, this is quite a far fetched thought. TATAs had always been spacious and that has been there selling point. No other car gets you more sheet metal for your hard earned money than the Tatas. But then, that's about it. All TATA cars have poor ergonomics and apart from all that space the interiors are nothing to write home about.
Sure, they look neat but that visual appeal is all lost by the time the car clocks anything above 25K kms. Tell me, how many of us here have ever come across a decent looking 3 year old indica/indigo?
Talking of the rattles and squeaks in the dezire, sure they are troublesome but what would you prefer? A good looking but rattling cabin or a good looking cabin made of terrible plastics? Well, I guess we would prefer to prefer none but then buyers don't have much choice considering Ikon's interiors reminds of the late 80s, only saving grace being the meaty steering wheel.

Ah and that 90ps diesel, sure it has 15 ps advantage over the dezire and some more over the ikon tdci, which all looks fantastic on paper but I bet it won't look half as good on road. Why? Consider this,donkeys of years ago
the beloved ZEN had a 55bhp engine compared to 75bhp unit of the Indica V2 petrol and even a driver with driving skills of a rotten potato can tell which was better to drive.
Sure, some may argue that TATA has moved on since then but then again we all know how fun Vista is to drive.
Another weak point with TATA cars has been gearing. Which make otherwise acceptable performance below average.
Finally, TATA is generous in using loads of steel in its cars and all that weight means 0-100 timings of this sedan are being compared to that of erstwhile matiz (and i bet revin that puny motor of that puny car is more fun) and also due all that mass fuel economy should too very well be less than that of the tdci and dzire.

To be frank am not as dismissive of this car as I may seem to some, it sure is somewhat promising, but a death knell for that suzuki with odd ball rear looks, no that in all probability won't be the case.

So, who'll buy this new sedan?
em....not any of us bhpian I suppose. Maybe like all other TATAs it will make a good taxi, and I can see some boring government officials with gray hair happily being chauffeur driven in this boring sedan, and with all that space and the status of having a 'badi gaadi' (sedan) will make them all the more glad.


Cheers.

Last edited by YC.BALENO.CHD : 15th October 2009 at 12:47.
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Old 15th October 2009, 13:08   #638
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Originally Posted by YC.BALENO.CHD View Post
which all looks fantastic on paper but I bet it won't look half as good on road. ........not any of us bhpian I suppose.... Maybe like all other TATAs it will make a good taxi, and I can see some boring government officials with gray hair happily being chauffeur driven in this boring sedan, and with all that space and the status of having a 'badi gaadi' (sedan) will make them all the more glad.

Let us decide on all these after a detailed test drive report-facts or some assertions from a healthy conversation from those who actually took a test drive rather than prejudice and intuitionism. And regarding who drives(rides) the manza, the market will decide.

Last edited by ramzsys : 15th October 2009 at 13:28.
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Old 15th October 2009, 13:12   #639
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Originally Posted by YC.BALENO.CHD View Post
Well to be frank, this is quite a far f

To be frank am not as dismissive of this car as I may seem to some, it sure is somewhat promising, but a death knell for that suzuki with odd ball rear looks, no that in all probability won't be the case.

So, who'll buy this new sedan?
em....not any of us bhpian I suppose. Maybe like all other TATAs it will make a good taxi, and I can see some boring government officials with gray hair happily being chauffeur driven in this boring sedan, and with all that space and the status of having a 'badi gaadi' (sedan) will make them all the more glad.


Cheers.
Please dont just write off the TATA motors. With R&D now being done at Jagaur-Landrover for new TATA cars and with overall contribution of JLR technical team whose technology is ahead / competent with many international OEM's, you can expect shocking surprises soon.
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Old 15th October 2009, 13:14   #640
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Guys lets give Tata Motors due credit for really trying hard to make significant improvements in their newer offerings (Vista & Manza). They have tried & I must say succeeded to a good extent. However the fantastic blinding effect that Maruti Suzuki has over the Indian market will always leave them as a top of recall car for most buyers. Tata's, however good a car they make, will never be able to overtake Maruti in terms of numbers because of the typical Indian attitude.
So many of us have critized the build quality of Tata cars, but I have seen them being drive most roughly. I am sure considering the paper thin steel that Maruti uses the cars will surely never be able to take that kind of abuse. This has been my personal experience.
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Old 15th October 2009, 13:28   #641
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Originally Posted by YC.BALENO.CHD View Post
Talking of the rattles and squeaks in the dezire, sure they are troublesome but what would you prefer? A good looking but rattling cabin or a good looking cabin made of terrible plastics? Well, I guess we would prefer to prefer none but then buyers don't have much choice considering Ikon's interiors reminds of the late 80s, only saving grace being the meaty steering wheel.
So, Are rattles and squeaks a sign of good quality? I surely don't think so. And not many people would agree with 'good looking' cabin of Dezire.

Quote:
Originally Posted by YC.BALENO.CHD View Post
Another weak point with TATA cars has been gearing. Which make otherwise acceptable performance below average.
Vista has one of the most suited gear ratios for Indian driving conditions. Moreover, It is well known fact that Dezire uses Maruti developed transmission on top of FIAT engine which is not as good as FIAT transmission / Engine combo in Punto/Linea/Vista/Manza.

Quote:
Originally Posted by YC.BALENO.CHD View Post
Finally, TATA is generous in using loads of steel in its cars and all that weight means 0-100 timings of this sedan are being compared to that of erstwhile matiz (and i bet revin that puny motor of that puny car is more fun) and also due all that mass fuel economy should too very well be less than that of the tdci and dzire.
We don't have exact figure here so jumping to any conclusion is blindfold bashing of a car. Anyways, In your own analogy, would you like a sufficiently revving car with best safety in collisions or a car that provides minimal collision prevention in accidents?

Quote:
Originally Posted by YC.BALENO.CHD View Post
So, who'll buy this new sedan?
em....not any of us bhpian I suppose. Maybe like all other TATAs it will make a good taxi, and I can see some boring government officials with gray hair happily being chauffeur driven in this boring sedan, and with all that space and the status of having a 'badi gaadi' (sedan) will make them all the more glad.
Once again jumping to conclusion too soon here. A 45 page long thread with most appreciative comments about the car indicates a good part of community likes the car and a lot of them will go for the buy and I am sure these members would not just be limited to 'boring government officials with grey hair'. A quick reality check would make you realise that both Vista and erstwhile Indica/Indigo have quite a large ownership count on this forum.
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Old 15th October 2009, 13:28   #642
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Originally Posted by YC.BALENO.CHD View Post
Sure, they look neat but that visual appeal is all lost by the time the car clocks anything above 25K kms. Tell me, how many of us here have ever come across a decent looking 3 year old indica/indigo?
i have seen many Indica/go in good condition. most of the cars you see in bad condition because of bad TAXI drivers. they drive so roughly and never repair if anything happens to the car from outside. me and my friends are using tata cars from many years and i must say these cars are really tough. there is one Privet indica V1 in my area which still looks like brand new. i will try to get pic of that car.

Last edited by tushky : 15th October 2009 at 13:31.
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Old 15th October 2009, 13:30   #643
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Guys... what a thread.. Manza has surely initiated some interest...

Coming to the point YC.baleno... has made, would have been valid if it was the old tata. What he probably has not taken into account that this is a vehicle made in a fiat factory, and the quality will definitely up atleast a couple of notch. The indica vista as an example is no way comparable to the earlier indica.

Also, the very fact that indicas are being used as taxis vouch for the strength of the machine. Believe me, I have sat in Tata vehicles having done over 3 years and 200000 kms and still no rattle.. when you add the fact that the taxi drivers definitely do not treat their vehicle that well.. it really adds up to something.

I belive that the tata's have a winner on their hands, and If their cars match up to the quality of the pictures put up.. there is no brand under the 10-11 lakh including the city that wont feel threatened.

Why am I saying this: In india people want a chauffer driven car mostly. thats why the steering controls, etc will not matter so much, but room at the back will. The manza provides just that, and now due to its jv with fiat will definitely be better in the quality dept as well..

I am looking eagerly looking forward to see how she performs.
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Old 15th October 2009, 13:38   #644
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Hi All,
Feel so good to see the features and options that r in this new car..

Off Topic,
When i see one of the threads of Mr roy posted in Team BHP for his pain and frusturation from his top end product makes me think twice what ever these guys have to offer. i came across this vehicle in vahan yatra. And also saw someone giving police complaint and throwing the person out. He starting fighting this case from 2006 and last update was 2009 and yet we cannot see any justice given to him.

Neways coming back to tata Manza. this car will do very well.. tough compitetion to dzire, linea.

Has A.S.S improved in tata or still do they beat around bush when customers go with there problem. any input guys.
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Old 15th October 2009, 13:48   #645
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Originally Posted by YC.BALENO.CHD View Post
Sure, they look neat but that visual appeal is all lost by the time the car clocks anything above 25K kms. Tell me, how many of us here have ever come across a decent looking 3 year old indica/indigo?
Well we have a December 2004 LS in the family which is used as the family workhorse, trust me it has aged rather gracefully. It still looks good as new, drives well, is super comfortable, and that jack-hammer of a turbocharger still manages to put a smile on your face if you know how to use it. The most important bit; it is the most forgiving car if it is ever abused!

P.S. I can show you a plethora of Swifts and Zens that would prefer going to the wreckers' than on the the road because they have been abused and can't really take the abuse! Oh, and they're far from visually appealing!
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