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Old 15th October 2009, 13:51   #646
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Originally Posted by Trapezio View Post
Dude... The Fiesta 1.4 TDCi takes 17.13 secs to reach 100 kmph (Autocar figures). You are comparing petrol acceleration figure of the Fiesta to the diesel of Tata. The Manza's acceleration is not earth shattering. But its not bad either... Best figures in the segment is Verna diesel (I think) with 14+ secs. A detailed test is what we need.
Guys figures apart, I love the Manza and I just called the Pune bu bhandari Pashan showroom and they said they have it on display. Test Drive too might be available.

So basically I was just replying to a comment by one of our users who said it was the death knell for all the midsizers I love the Manza, wait for the photos if I can make it to the display car today.
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Old 15th October 2009, 13:56   #647
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Originally Posted by YC.BALENO.CHD View Post
So, who'll buy this new sedan?
em....not any of us bhpian I suppose. Maybe like all other TATAs it will make a good taxi, and I can see some boring government officials with gray hair happily being chauffeur driven in this boring sedan, and with all that space and the status of having a 'badi gaadi' (sedan) will make them all the more glad.
Man, please refrain posting something like this. If you don't find a damn point to buy manza, don't buy it. But try to give your unbiased comments.

Last edited by xPK : 15th October 2009 at 13:57.
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Old 15th October 2009, 13:57   #648
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Originally Posted by Maverick1977 View Post
Tata's, however good a car they make, will never be able to overtake Maruti in terms of numbers because of the typical Indian attitude.
IMHO this has nothing to Indians per se. It is the brand perception of the buyers anywhere in the world. Inspite of making good cars Japanese had to try hard to change the market perception on them. Koreans are on the same path and they may challenge the japanese soon. But all this takes time. Tata has started making good vehicles but changing people perception on Tata needs lot of effort over an extended period. With Vista and Manza the Tata's have started doing just that.
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Old 15th October 2009, 14:02   #649
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Originally Posted by akhilesh51 View Post
So, Are rattles and squeaks a sign of good quality? I surely don't think so. And not many people would agree with 'good looking' cabin of Dezire.
You have been reading between lines sir, as for the quality its relatively better and kindly point out when did I say rattles are signs of quality??


Quote:
Vista has one of the most suited gear ratios for Indian driving conditions. Moreover, It is well known fact that Dezire uses Maruti developed transmission on top of FIAT engine which is not as good as FIAT transmission / Engine combo in Punto/Linea/Vista/Manza.
?? Dezire uses "Suzuki" developed transmission which does duty on european swift ddis as well. And its another well known fact that in your so called "indian driving conditions" Maruti has better tuned engine/ gearbox combo than the fiat setups and same can be seen in all fiat and tata cars using the setup.

Quote:
We don't have exact figure here so jumping to any conclusion is blindfold bashing of a car. Anyways, In your own analogy, would you like a sufficiently revving car with best safety in collisions or a car that provides minimal collision prevention in accidents?
Now again like you said we don't have sufficient and exact figures so how in the name of your holy quadrajet can you term a car more safe than the other and lead yourself to blindfold conclusions about a car one has not even seen in flesh?


Quote:
Once again jumping to conclusion too soon here. A 45 page long thread with most appreciative comments about the car indicates a good part of community likes the car and a lot of them will go for the buy and I am sure these members would not just be limited to 'boring government officials with grey hair'. A quick reality check would make you realise that both Vista and erstwhile Indica/Indigo have quite a large ownership count on this forum.
Now make that 45 page long thread with most appreciative comments from owners of TATA cars.
We do not have (m)-any indigo owners here and it is most unlikely that we will have bhpians running after a sedanised Vista.


And I have said it before and am repeating it, am not entirely dismissive of the new car, what am dismissive about is the fact that it will make a huge dent on segment leaders.
As for the 'early comments' of mine, the current data is sufficient to atleast safely predict that it wont have good handling/good performance and in most likelihood class leading economy.
What it is and will be is a honest car that serves the purpose of providing optimum space for your money and as with most of the TATA cars a good medium of A to B transportation. What it won't have will be smile inducing handling capabilities of the Ikon or dezire and for me and I bet most of the bhpians if a car makes a passenger more happy than the driver, its better left to chauffeur, hence my last comment on the supposed to be owners.


@ owners of indica/indigo here
Sure sir, I believe that your cars are well maintained and as good as new and no, I don't need a pic to believe you as I don't have any reason not to believe a fellow bhpian but then we all love cars and thus tend to look after them atleast drive 'em better than the average car owner. Still, my point remains the same, that as mileage builds up TATAs are not really that good at aging gracefully. Dad had a petrol indica V2 as a company car and its maintenance was very well difficult than the esteem we have.
And my request to all those here, you may argue about any aspect of TATA cars but not the plastic. Even on the modern Vista, the plastics are a full grade down than on any Maruti and Hyundai. Though its surely an improvement over Indicas

EDIT--Whoever said that Verna diesel takes 14 secs to the ton!!?? Its shatteringly quick for a midsized diesel and real world figures are around 11-12 secs. Though it handles like a boat but that is another thing.

Quote:
Man, please refrain posting something like this. If you don't find a damn point to buy manza, don't buy it. But try to give your unbiased comments.
Fine sir, I won't but then you will have to give a damn point regarding why you or anyone looking for a car in that segment will choose the Manza over anything else...and if it would something other than the plus points I have already mentioned I'll refrain from posting "Unbiased" comments in this thread.



Regards.

Last edited by YC.BALENO.CHD : 15th October 2009 at 14:10.
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Old 15th October 2009, 14:03   #650
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Had been to the Pashan Showroom yesterday ....
They had a Black Aura ABS on display .....

Have gone ahead and booked one.
Today the model (likely Aura ABS) and color will be finalised.
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Old 15th October 2009, 14:12   #651
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I'm all for the Manza. I am quite surprised by a few people stating that they have not come across a Indigo/Indica which is old and in a good condition. My dad has a 2002 Indica and I drive a 2006 Indigo. Both are in very good condition and till date, none of the cars have let us down. The one thing that I would like to point out is that in our country, very few people are regular about servicing schedules, specially once the free service period is over. That would contribute to a large number of cars in a "bad" condition.And diesels do require more TLC as compared to a petrol.
A USP of the Tata cars is probably the quality of the metal they use. In fact there was a time when the thick gauge steel was termed as their best safety feature. The added weight does affect the 0-100 figures though! But then, one would not really take a Indigo to a drag race!
The progression of the Tata cars with time has found favor with me. And the Manza does put a smile on my face.Waiting for the numbers now! Got a feeling that it will shock many a skeptic!
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Old 15th October 2009, 14:14   #652
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In TOI today. car looked really long, I thought something is wrong, and see its even longer than Indigo XL

Manza : 4,413 mm
Indigo XL : 4377 mm

This car will surely make marks
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Old 15th October 2009, 14:15   #653
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akhilesh51 View Post
It is well known fact that Dezire uses Maruti developed transmission on top of FIAT engine which is not as good as FIAT transmission / Engine combo in Punto/Linea/Vista/Manza.
Do you have anything to substantiate this claim or is it just based on driving experience? I have driven the Vista Quadrajet, Punto MJD and the Swift DDiS. I felt that the best combination was in the Swift, followed by the Vista and then by the Punto. The Fiat engine feels best in a Maruti. Another person could have a completely different experience.
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Old 15th October 2009, 14:17   #654
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"Power is best handled responsibly.which is why.the Indigo Manza comes armed with a host of advanced safety features that meet stringent international standards"
The above quote is from the e brochure which is misleading for the buyer .I bet the safety features given in Aura + will never meet a International standards.

TATA should be sued for this misleading brochure,why they all ways hype things?
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Old 15th October 2009, 14:18   #655
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Originally Posted by YC.BALENO.CHD View Post
Whoever said that Verna diesel takes 14 secs to the ton!!?? Its shatteringly quick for a midsized diesel and real world figures are around 11-12 secs. Though it handles like a boat but that is another thing.
Agreed. Its 14+ for the automatic and 11+ for the manual. But why bury a car before its launched? After all we are enthusiasts and not executioners... (Just kidding)

Quote:
Originally Posted by YC.BALENO.CHD View Post
?? Dezire uses "Suzuki" developed transmission which does duty on european swift ddis as well. And its another well known fact that in your so called "indian driving conditions" Maruti has better tuned engine/ gearbox combo than the fiat setups and same can be seen in all fiat and tata cars using the setup.
First of all D'zire is available only in India.

Secondly assuming you were speaking about the normal hatchback can you please tell me the European country where the Swift is available with Fiat engine? Actually I am not aware of any. I was just keen to know.

Last edited by Trapezio : 15th October 2009 at 14:26.
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Old 15th October 2009, 14:20   #656
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[quote=YC.BALENO.CHD;1533371]?? Dezire uses "Suzuki" developed transmission which does duty on european swift ddis as well. And its another well known fact that in your so called "indian driving conditions" Maruti has better tuned engine/ gearbox combo than the fiat setups and same can be seen in all fiat and tata cars using the setup.[quote]

I remember reading somewhere on TBHP that the linea diesel is actually faster than the suzuki compatriat!
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Old 15th October 2009, 14:24   #657
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YC Baleno Bhai,

The dismissive tone of your post seems to indicate that you are either biased or perhaps out of touch with recent Tata products.

Quote:
Originally Posted by YC.BALENO.CHD View Post
Ah and that 90ps diesel, sure it has 15 ps advantage over the dezire and some more over the ikon tdci, which all looks fantastic on paper but I bet it won't look half as good on road. Why? Consider this,donkeys of years ago
the beloved ZEN had a 55bhp engine compared to 75bhp unit of the Indica V2 petrol and even a driver with driving skills of a rotten potato can tell which was better to drive.
Indica petrol 1.4 had decent performance and pulling power compared with other similar hatches, its weak points were maintenance, mileage, refinement, handling etc and the fact that Tata showrooms were typically diesel shops. Zen was a much smaller lighter car and Suzuki only makes petrol engines. Also as far as I know Zen was always costlier than Indica petrol. So its perhaps not fair to compare both those cars and use that as a basis to dismiss a completely different car 10 years later that you have not even test driven.

Even in that comparison, Indica had it's own advantages like price, space, rear seat comfort, ride quality etc.

Don't know if I have the driving skills of a rotten potato, but I sure look like a Potato, and sitting in a Zen makes french fries or potato wedges out of me. I wouldn't buy an Indica petrol either, but I at least appreciate that I can sit in it as a whole potato, being a potato wedge takes away a lot of the 'fun' for me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by YC.BALENO.CHD View Post
Sure, some may argue that TATA has moved on since then but then again we all know how fun Vista is to drive.
Another weak point with TATA cars has been gearing. Which make otherwise acceptable performance below average.
Cheers.
Please go to a Tata showroom and take a test drive in a Vista. It doesn't have that surge after 2000 RPM that you have in a DDIS engine, but otherwise the performance is excellent. It has a flat torque curve, which is perfect for our traffic. It is well-balanced for both city and highway driving. Both the gears and the gear rations are excellent for Indian conditions. I would say it is a lot more 'fun' to drive in real-world driving conditions in an Indian metro, even compared to the DDIS powered cars (which are themselves very good).
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Old 15th October 2009, 14:30   #658
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Yesterday I was travelling in an Indigo Taxi which was hardly a year old and well maintained and enroute people started clapping us from behind and when we stopped to utter surprise noticed that the left rear parklamp assy is dropping on the wires. On inspection it was seen that the two areas were the assy is screwed on has rusted and given way. The RHS condition also was very close to getting detached. How it started rusting so quickly cant be understood.

TataMotors has to improve the quality of itys painting for Manza to be successful.
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Old 15th October 2009, 14:31   #659
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Originally Posted by Sudan_NFS View Post
"Power is best handled responsibly.which is why.the Indigo Manza comes armed with a host of advanced safety features that meet stringent international standards"
The above quote is from the e brochure which is misleading for the buyer .I bet the safety features given in Aura + will never meet a International standards.

TATA should be sued for this misleading brochure,why they all ways hype things?
Please dont make arbitrary statements like these. Support them with facts & please let the courts decide if it is misleading or not.

Also lets not compare the Indian car industry (& the Indian buyers) with the developed markets, where the car buyer is ACTUALLY price conscious. How? Just compare the prices of the Toyota Corolla in India & US.
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Old 15th October 2009, 14:39   #660
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Originally Posted by Sudan_NFS View Post
I bet the safety features given in Aura + will never meet a International standards.

TATA should be sued for this misleading brochure,why they all ways hype things?
Hey, it depends on what features they are talking about and which international standards they are using as the standard.

I'm not trying to debate against your claim, but please do quote some facts before claiming that Tata should be sued and you will sound more credible to others reading this thread.

The safety features that they claim as per brochure are:-
Collapsible steering
ABS
Dual Front Airbags
Retractor, Pretensioners & Load Limiters on front seat belts
High Mount LED Stop Lamp.

The others in that section of the brochure are I guess security features.
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