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Old 24th January 2010, 02:51   #211
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The MJD was developed by the Poland based Fiat-GM Powertrain, a joint venture between GM and Fiat. This occurred during the time period when GM used to own a stake in Fiat. Suzuki (GM had a 20% stake in it) also invested some money in the engine development .In return for this investment Suzuki was granted full license to build and market the 1.3 litre version of the MJD in its small cars.

Later on GM bought itself out of Fiat and also sold majority of their stakes in Suzuki. But GM still holds a 50% stake in the Powertrain company. Suzuki now an outsider, failed to reach an agreement with the Fiat or GM for further tech transfer for the manufacture of bigger MJD engines and this is the reason why Suzuki/Maruti don't have any MJD engine larger than 1.3L.

MSIL in 2007, opened up its own diesel engine plant with a capacity to produce upto 300,000 units/year, to manufacture the 1.3L MJD . Maruti doesn't need any permission from TATA or Fiat India for the manufacture of the MJD because they are building it under license from Suzuki Japan.

Last edited by harishnair : 24th January 2010 at 02:57.
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Old 24th January 2010, 04:30   #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harishnair View Post
The MJD was developed by the Poland based Fiat-GM Powertrain, a joint venture between GM and Fiat. This occurred during the time period when GM used to own a stake in Fiat. Suzuki (GM had a 20% stake in it) also invested some money in the engine development .In return for this investment Suzuki was granted full license to build and market the 1.3 litre version of the MJD in its small cars.

Later on GM bought itself out of Fiat and also sold majority of their stakes in Suzuki. But GM still holds a 50% stake in the Powertrain company. Suzuki now an outsider, failed to reach an agreement with the Fiat or GM for further tech transfer for the manufacture of bigger MJD engines and this is the reason why Suzuki/Maruti don't have any MJD engine larger than 1.3L.

MSIL in 2007, opened up its own diesel engine plant with a capacity to produce upto 300,000 units/year, to manufacture the 1.3L MJD . Maruti doesn't need any permission from TATA or Fiat India for the manufacture of the MJD because they are building it under license from Suzuki Japan.
Thank you Sir for making the picture even more clear.
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Old 24th January 2010, 05:22   #213
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Also Fiat would be very foolish to supply diesel engine for Suzuki cars in India. They would first plonk it in their cars and then supply engines to Suzuki.
After Fiat-Tata deal was signed, both of them went to Suzuki to procure the SDE as Suzuki was already producing the engine in India. But suzuki refused as it had paid a lot of money to fiat.
Man, this is so amateurish for a senior bhpian, especially.Suzuki manufactures its own engine and Tata-Fiat manufactures their own. No one went to Suzuki for engines.
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Old 24th January 2010, 11:00   #214
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Originally Posted by cruiser_1982 View Post
Man, this is so amateurish for a senior bhpian, especially.Suzuki manufactures its own engine and Tata-Fiat manufactures their own. No one went to Suzuki for engines.
For India they did. Read this in ACI, dont remember the issue, but did read about a two cylinder diesel being developed by Fiat in that article in ACI. For India, Tata-Fiat went to source SDE. This was scene when Swift diesel was launched and was recording good sales.

After suzuki refused Tata-Fiat obviously figured out their own way.
If I am able to find out the correct issue, I will scan and put up that article.

@harishnair : Thanks for clearing up. I was googling too much for it.
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Old 24th January 2010, 11:29   #215
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Originally Posted by cruiser_1982 View Post
Man, this is so amateurish for a senior bhpian, especially.Suzuki manufactures its own engine and Tata-Fiat manufactures their own. No one went to Suzuki for engines.
The incident did happen and Ratan Tata himself had mentioned about it once.


Check this link for the full article -- Suzuki rejected engine facility offer, says Tata

Below are excerpts from the same article.

Quote:

"We (the Tata, Fiat joint venture company, Fiat India Automobiles) looked to have one plant for the 1.3 litre diesel engine of Fiat. We had approached Suzuki for the alliance but they disagreed," said Ratan Tata, chairman of the Tata Group, while answering one of the queries posted by shareholders at the company's annual general meeting recently.

SMC, instead, through its Indian subsidiary — Maruti Suzuki India (MSIL) — had opted to set up its own facility in Manesar near Haryana. The facility, which has a capacity to produce 3,00,000 units a year, now produces the engine for MSIL's Swift and Swift DZire models.

“All the three companies would have made considerable savings if a joint facility for the engine would have been brought in place," said an auto expert.

The joint venture company of the Tata and Fiat -- Fiat India Automobiles (FIAPL) -- has set up a 300,000-engines per year plant at Ranjangaon near Pune in Maharashtra where the 1.3 multijet will also be produced apart from some other petrol engines.

Courtesy-- Business Standard

Last edited by harishnair : 24th January 2010 at 11:37.
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Old 25th January 2010, 00:10   #216
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Does anyone have any concrete information on the weight of the engines? The K series engine is lighter but by how much?

From what i could find out, the MJD weighs 75 kg more than the G13B, ie Swift VDI to VXI is 1075 kg vs 1000 kg
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Old 25th January 2010, 07:37   #217
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Guys, Please, Why dont we stick to the topic and discuss about K series engine in Swift.
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Old 25th January 2010, 08:27   #218
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Talking K 1.2 engine, a light weight dynamite.


I am sure 1.2 K engine will work wonders to sales of swift as also swift dzire, as extra weight of dzire will be offset by lighter engine.
for sedate drivers, which make for most of the consumers, the dzire package with the new engine and fuel efficiency seems right on the spot.
way to go Maruti suzuki.
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Old 25th January 2010, 12:44   #219
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Originally Posted by Fornax View Post
Saw a top-end Swift K-Series at Spectra motors. Apart from the engine change, I noticed that it had Reverse Sensors & corner protection strips as part of the standard package.

One obvious question - with a 7.69% reduction in engine capacity, shouldn't the price be decreased too?
Great News. Did you get a chance to sneak inside the car and check what changes they have made in Dashboard department?
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Old 25th January 2010, 13:56   #220
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Talking Me too Dzire's

I am planning for Swift Dzire VXI with 1.2 k series engine. had taken test drive for manza saffire base version and was quiet satisfied by the overall drive. but its the Dzire to me since i have tasted blood (Had checked on the Ritz petrol on launch date and was thrilled by the super silent peppy engine).
When the news for Dzire with the same engine was announced i post - poned my booking.
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Old 25th January 2010, 14:06   #221
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@Fornax: Read this - Does Engine size really matter (Does engine size really matter?)
You really saw the new Swift ??? Visit again and get us the pics
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Great News. Did you get a chance to sneak inside the car and check what changes they have made in Dashboard department?
Even in Hyderabad, the sales guy confirmed that interiors are upgraded but no details. The older swift's production has already stopped. They are clearing the stock now. The first lot of New Swift is expected in March and brochure in Feb. Let see!
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Old 25th January 2010, 15:03   #222
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Originally Posted by Vibhanshu View Post
@Fornax: Read this - Does Engine size really matter (Does engine size really matter?)
You really saw the new Swift ??? Visit again and get us the pics

Even in Hyderabad, the sales guy confirmed that interiors are upgraded but no details. The older swift's production has already stopped. They are clearing the stock now. The first lot of New Swift is expected in March and brochure in Feb. Let see!
Hey great news. Thanks a lot for the update.
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Old 25th January 2010, 15:16   #223
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Great News. Did you get a chance to sneak inside the car and check what changes they have made in Dashboard department?
+1 to that. @ fornax could you please post some photographs of the K series Swift so that we could all have a look as to what are the changes in exterior/interior apart from the engine.
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Old 25th January 2010, 17:27   #224
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the new 1.2 liter KB series will also offer in next generetion swift

Suzuki Swift 3 door Spyshots : Swift Sedan will debute at the end of 2010
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Old 26th January 2010, 18:29   #225
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Default Enthusiasts can still Rejoice

Ever since Maruti has announced a change in heart for the Swift (i.e. K Series Petrol), there have been mixed reactions. While some see it as a fantastic move with better FE, the enthusiasts felt that the G Series that could be revved till the moon would be sorely missed.

Now here are some facts ?(courtesy ACI feb issue) that will bring in more smiles on the faces of enthusiasts like me. The K series Swift as claimed by Maruti is more fun to drive than the G series one. This is aided by an improved transmission in the new swift to retain that peppiness along with with a much improved low end torque. Even the roll on times are better than the G series engine which means greater in city driveability and less frequent gear changes. In addition, the claimed FE (17.9Kmpl) is also much better than the old G series FE of 15.9. So one can definitely not ask for a better package. Way to go Maruti. I now can only sense the waiting time for Swift now to rise further. Also beware DDis Swift. You may have to a play a second fiddle to your Petrol sibling
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