Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 19th November 2009, 14:42   #76
Senior - BHPian
 
longhorn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Chennai
Posts: 1,154
Thanked: 290 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nilesh5417 View Post
For most outside of this forum, as long as maruti maintains the key parameters, they will buy any new swift avtaar. My take.

Why then my friend, does the Ritz petrol sell more than the Swift petrol?
Though looks are subjective, I don't think anyone would contest the fact that the Swift is a much better looker than the Ritz.The engine is the heart of the car, and the K12M unit, though lower on cc by about 100cc, is a much more refined unit and more importantly gives much better mileage figures than the G13 motor on the Swift. This is why the Ritz petrol outsells the Swift petrol while its exactly the opposite when it comes to the diesel variant.
longhorn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th November 2009, 16:48   #77
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Pune
Posts: 1,078
Thanked: 639 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by longhorn View Post
Why then my friend, does the Ritz petrol sell more than the Swift petrol?
Though looks are subjective, I don't think anyone would contest the fact that the Swift is a much better looker than the Ritz.The engine is the heart of the car, and the K12M unit, though lower on cc by about 100cc, is a much more refined unit and more importantly gives much better mileage figures than the G13 motor on the Swift. This is why the Ritz petrol outsells the Swift petrol while its exactly the opposite when it comes to the diesel variant.
You do have a point but then you had the answer right there! Which is what i was saying. Refinement? Hmmmm...maybe. Mileage? Hell yeah! Fun drive, refined etc are nice to haves. I start going there when i know i've an option from choosing cars with similar mileage figures.

When its about numbers, even the indica sold in huge numbers. Inspite of all the squeels, creeks and drab looks. But i guess once we bring in the "perception" factor, things undergo a sea change.

So i'm not negating the need for an engine upgrade for the swift. Just that there are few who are aware enough to demand it. We are fickle. Most will simply move on to the best available at that point of time. Sticking again, to the parameters of aam-admi.

Oh, and we add "Cost of ownership" to the list of parameters!

Last edited by Nilesh5417 : 19th November 2009 at 16:54.
Nilesh5417 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th November 2009, 17:01   #78
BHPian
 
mtnrajdeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 648
Thanked: 88 Times
Default

They already have a 1242cc K series engine which has been reduced to under 1200 cc for meeting the small car norms for Ritz. What's there to stop them from using the same engine, without reducing the cc, in the Swift? This way they keep the performance image of the Swift, and reduce their costs by reusing most of the existing K12M engine parts!
mtnrajdeep is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 19th November 2009, 17:19   #79
BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Mumbai/BLR/USA
Posts: 928
Thanked: 190 Times
Default

Upgrading the Swift to the new -gen K series engine will further cannibalize the sales of Ritz for sure.

I think the market has not digested the rear end looks of the Ritz.
Personally I feel that Opel Agalia which is same as Splash(know internationally) has a better rear end design.
May be Maruti has to re-engineer the tail end of the Ritz to please the Indian consumer.
I feel that it is a good car with lot of Head room & tall boy practicality.
tj123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th November 2009, 17:33   #80
Senior - BHPian
 
longhorn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Chennai
Posts: 1,154
Thanked: 290 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnrajdeep View Post
They already have a 1242cc K series engine which has been reduced to under 1200 cc for meeting the small car norms for Ritz. What's there to stop them from using the same engine, without reducing the cc, in the Swift?
There's a small thing called excise duty which spoils the show here. You go above 1299 cc and you pay much more (not sure whether it is 12% or 16% as excise duty). Petrol engined cars less than 4 metres in length and having and engine capacity less than 1300cc attract only 8% excise duty.
How does a K12M VVT sound?
longhorn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th November 2009, 17:36   #81
BHPian
 
mtnrajdeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 648
Thanked: 88 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by longhorn View Post
There's a small thing called excise duty which spoils the show here. You go above 1299 cc and you pay much more (not sure whether it is 12% or 16% as excise duty). Petrol engined cars less than 4 metres in length and having and engine capacity less than 1300cc attract only 8% excise duty.
How does a K12M VVT sound?
The swift does not qualify for the excise duty since its more than 1200 cc engine. The small car norms are for cars less that 4m long and engine capacities less than 1200 cc for petrol and 1500 cc for diesel! So it does not matter!
mtnrajdeep is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 19th November 2009, 17:43   #82
Team-BHP Support
 
Vid6639's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 14,468
Thanked: 19,375 Times
Default

A reliable source in Maruti just told me that the swift will come with K12M engine immediately once the BS4 norms kick in. April 2010 they will immediately release the Swift petrol with K12M and the Swift D will also be BS4 compliant in the same tune as Ritz.

Last edited by Vid6639 : 19th November 2009 at 17:52.
Vid6639 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th November 2009, 17:48   #83
BHPian
 
NeedaUsername's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Pune
Posts: 131
Thanked: 14 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vid6639 View Post
A reliable source in Maruti just told me that the swift will come with KB12 engine immediately once the BS4 norms kick in. April 2010 they will immediately release the Swift petrol with KB12 and the Swift D will also be BS4 compliant in the same tune as Ritz.
Isnt the KB series a 3 cyl engine? I thought Swift is supposed to come with K12M motor thats there on the Ritz.
NeedaUsername is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th November 2009, 17:52   #84
Team-BHP Support
 
Vid6639's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 14,468
Thanked: 19,375 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedaUsername View Post
Isnt the KB series a 3 cyl engine? I thought Swift is supposed to come with K12M motor thats there on the Ritz.
lol. Yes that was a typo. Changed it is indeed the Ritz K12M engine.
Vid6639 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th November 2009, 19:13   #85
Senior - BHPian
 
romeomidhun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 2,630
Thanked: 1,883 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aerohit View Post
When did maruti offer engine options? They never did - so decision was never based on the engine.
Maruti gives engine options, but along with that, the car itself is changed!

Swift 1.3L - Ritz 1.2L
WagonR 1.1L - Estilo1.0L (as of now)
Alto .8L - A-Star 1.0L
SX4 1.6L - DZire 1.3L

Moreover, both Swift and Ritz are coming in Petrol / Diesel engine options.

And which other manufacturer gives such a variety of car models?

Moreover, Maruti has a clear-cut policy in terms of engine options in their cars. But others like Hyundai are a confused lot - they don't know which engine to use in which car. They use a 1.1L engine in a bigger car like Getz, and 1.2L engine in smaller i10. And the same 1.2L engine in the bigger i20 also! Remember, all these were not given as options initially, but given later to increase the dwindling sales.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vid6639 View Post
lol. Yes that was a typo. Changed it is indeed the Ritz K12M engine.
Actually, K10B (3 cylinder) and K12B (4 cylinder) are the original Suzuki engines. Though they use this original K10B in A-Star and Estilo in India, they modified the K12B for Indian conditions (read tax benefit) and named it as K12M.

Last edited by romeomidhun : 19th November 2009 at 19:32.
romeomidhun is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 19th November 2009, 19:38   #86
BHPian
 
aerohit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: India
Posts: 880
Thanked: 579 Times
Default

I mean to say they never offered 1.6 or 1.3 for the same car!

Regarding Hyundai using 1.2 in i10 and 1.1 in Getz, probably because the newer engine is more efficient. (i dont know much about Hyundai though)


Regardless, Swift has been a terrible car in terms of rattles, g13 engine refinement, and harsh suspension.

Last edited by aerohit : 19th November 2009 at 19:41.
aerohit is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 19th November 2009, 19:50   #87
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Technocrat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Mid West
Posts: 14,897
Thanked: 2,481 Times
Default

Well they did offer an 800 cc & 1100 cc engine in the Alto for the first & last time
Technocrat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th November 2009, 19:55   #88
BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 356
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aerohit View Post
Regardless, Swift has been a terrible car in terms of rattles, g13 engine refinement, and harsh suspension.
That says you have never driven it.
Ajay_J is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th November 2009, 20:18   #89
BHPian
 
prince85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 967
Thanked: 84 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Technocrat View Post
Well they did offer an 800 cc & 1100 cc engine in the Alto for the first & last time
M1000 and Esteem as well.......1.0L and a 1.3L engine in essentially the same car but with different names. Both were sold by MSIL together between 1994 to 1997 before the M1000 was discontinued in August, 1997 IIRC.

Last edited by prince85 : 19th November 2009 at 20:21.
prince85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th November 2009, 20:31   #90
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Technocrat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Mid West
Posts: 14,897
Thanked: 2,481 Times
Default

Oh yes, I was somehow under impression that Esteem came after M1000 but I think you are right.
Technocrat is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
BMW to launch the 1 Series later in 2013*UPDATE: Now launched* a4anurag The Indian Car Scene 170 3rd September 2013 13:45
Changing SWIFT Engine to K10 Series ajitsank Modifications & Accessories 4 18th September 2010 07:41
Alto CNG + Swift petrol and Zen to get k-series engine soon sidindica The Indian Car Scene 75 28th November 2009 10:42
Swift to get M Series engine BUSA The Indian Car Scene 84 22nd January 2009 14:16
SCOOP! BMW Spec sheet for India. 3 series & 5 series GTO The Indian Car Scene 48 4th September 2007 13:25


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 17:50.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks