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Old 23rd March 2006, 14:28   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid
Yeah and let the Wagon R lose the excise duty advantage it has because it is < 1.2 litres.

I'd like to see it sell
oooops, didn't c that one coming!!!!
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Old 23rd March 2006, 14:57   #32
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Steer buddy I felt Himanshu did throw up a valid thought! And about excise issue, why should that be a problem? Most countries provide the same car in several configurations/trim levels. In these you always have multiple engine options to choose from. Its only in India that we have a solitary engine option for all the cars. So let those who want the excise advantage go for the smaller engined car.

Let the WagonR continue with its regular 1.1 engine in all the trims except for the VXi and the Primea range maybe. Here Maruti can offer the 1.3 Esteem engine. Similarly with the Swift... They can have the ZXi with the Baleno engine and make it cost the same as the top end Getz maybe. I believe once they do that they will find that there is no dearth of takers for these powerful model. It will not only increase the revenues for Maruti (a little bit of juggling with the same engines and cars, with differing configs) but may very well send the competition scurrying for cover.

In fact I wonder why they do not think of such mix-and-match... They have everything with them. Won't involve huge costs... And yet may open up new revenue streams!
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Old 23rd March 2006, 15:46   #33
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1.3L WagonR?... The moment they do that everyone will start about safety issues!.... Come-on .. I think 64bhp is.. more than enough for a tall boy!.

1.6L Swift?... I would love to see that myself... but again at about 5.5Lakhs it won't sell!

If maruti had just one model in the segment say the WagonR or only the Swift.. then only it'd make sense to have different engine options. As of now they have something for everyone... no need for more confusion.

And did we forget the zen?... well going.. but it still sells!
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Old 23rd March 2006, 16:19   #34
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It may be taken for granted both Maruti/Suzuki and Hyundai will continue to exist in near future.

Both the manufacturers have also revamped their international presence as well. both are very much VFM.

In India, Maruti/Suzuki still outperforms Hyundai because of following reasons:

* Maruti is here over 2 decades. Still old M800s run on road. This makes a perception to people that Maruti cars are reliable and have a better longevity than Hyundai cars.
* Many people still believe that Japanese technology is still better than Korean's (in fact I myself believe that to some extent because my own Korean gadgets died prematurely (camcorder, CD writer etc.) compared to Japanese and even Chinese gadgets!!)
* In one car magazine, I once read that both Korean & Japanese cars run excellently initially. But the real power of Japanese cars come over 100,000 km - they still run flawlessly.
* Both WagonR and Santro are excellent cars. But often WagonR is often let down by its boxy look. When Santro was introduced in India for the very first time, it looked awkward and many people refrained away from it. But gradually Hyundai did some face lifting to Santro. At the end, it became a better looking car than WagonR.
* For the reason stated above, public often eliminate WagonR in Maruti stable and replace it by Swift! So, ideally it should be

Alto vs (none)
WagonR vs Santro
Swift vs Getz

But in reality, it becomes Swift vs Santro and thus Getz remains having no direct competition from Maruti stable (exactly what Hyundai wants).

I don't think Maruti can do any good to WagonR by putting a bigger engine or so. They need to make it "look good".

Just my personal opinion though
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Old 23rd March 2006, 16:23   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjacob
And as long as people still prefer to buy those outdated products instead of the competition*, why wouldn't (and shouldn't) Maruti keep selling them?
Very true.
On almost every thread we can see some reference to anguish/anger at dated products still being sold, older models not being phased out by the manufacturer etc.
I frankly don't understand why this should be the case, for atleast 3 reasons ;
First one being that, the consumers dictates demand/supply for products in a free market. If there are buyers, why not sell the product, however old it might be ? When no buyers are available, the manufacturer will anyway be forced to phase out that product.

Second reason is that, if the product serves a particular need of the target market and with no other alternative available, what is the harm in retaining it in the product portfolio ? Taking the example of the M800 which has been here for more than 2 decades (with only cosmetic changes), it is the stepping stone for people whose budget is limited and who want to move from bike to car. It is enough for a small family to move around in relative safety, when compared to a bike. The comfort, leg space, snob value etc might be lacking, but it still serves their purpose. Why phase out such a product, which meets consumer needs ? I started driving on an M800 in '85 and even after 20 odd years, I like the car. When faced with parking / FE issues with the Baleno, I sometimes think of getting an M800 just for the city driving and keep the Baleno for fun outings.

The third and important reason is that good competition can automatically force manufacturers to phase out old models. But then today, what competition does the M800 have ? Zilch. Let the competition come out with an answer to it and then see Maruti pulling its act together. Let Hyundai come out with a M800 equivalent and see the scene hotting up.
Also, it is not enough to just have competition. The competition should have a good product which has advantages over the existing product. A car is a package of various attributes like engine, looks, FE, stability, snob value, power, brand value etc. The mere fact that a new car is available in the market, which has different (not necessarily good) looks does not mean that the existing car should not be considered due to being dated-in-market. Let the competition bring in cars that better the existing one on the other attributes and then see the older cars being dumped. But as long as the competition brings only new looks without any significant improvement in the other factors, why phase out a car that is great to drive and own ?

Last edited by supremeBaleno : 23rd March 2006 at 16:27.
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Old 23rd March 2006, 17:13   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supremeBaleno
First one being that, the consumers dictates demand/supply for products in a free market. If there are buyers, why not sell the product, however old it might be ? When no buyers are available, the manufacturer will anyway be forced to phase out that product.
True - thats why even the Amby sells over here.

But - the point is that, the manufacturer can always try to get more market share by introducing a product which is newer, fresher and with more technology and features. Thats what Maruti did with the Alto 800 cc. When it came in, 800 was selling in huge numbers. But now, Alto has more than doubled that market for Maruti and Alto sells far more than M800.

A more extreme case could be OHC and NHC - almost everyone thought it was a bad decision to take out OHC, but Honda tripled their sales within a year.
But, Toyota also tried to do something similar with the Innova, and it didnt work out very well. So there are both sides to the story.

But the bottomline being that it is a sign of a dynamic, growing company to come up with various new products which can gather more market share for them. And the sign of an overweight, sluggish giant to hold on to existing cash cows for years.
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Old 23rd March 2006, 18:13   #37
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It may be taken for granted both Maruti/Suzuki and Hyundai will continue to exist in near future.

Both the manufacturers have also revamped their international presence as well. both are very much VFM.

In India, Maruti/Suzuki still outperforms Hyundai because of following reasons:

* Maruti is here over 2 decades. Still old M800s run on road. This makes a perception to people that Maruti cars are reliable and have a better longevity than Hyundai cars.
* Many people still believe that Japanese technology is still better than Korean's (in fact I myself believe that to some extent because my own Korean gadgets died prematurely (camcorder, CD writer etc.) compared to Japanese and even Chinese gadgets!!)
* In one car magazine, I once read that both Korean & Japanese cars run excellently initially. But the real power of Japanese cars come over 100,000 km - they still run flawlessly.
* Both WagonR and Santro are excellent cars. But often WagonR is often let down by its boxy look. When Santro was introduced in India for the very first time, it looked awkward and many people refrained away from it. But gradually Hyundai did some face lifting to Santro. At the end, it became a better looking car than WagonR.
* For the reason stated above, public often eliminate WagonR in Maruti stable and replace it by Swift! So, ideally it should be

Alto vs (none)
WagonR vs Santro
Swift vs Getz

But in reality, it becomes Swift vs Santro and thus Getz remains having no direct competition from Maruti stable (exactly what Hyundai wants).

I don't think Maruti can do any good to WagonR by putting a bigger engine or so. They need to make it "look good".

Just my personal opinion though
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