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Old 20th July 2005, 11:55   #1
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Lightbulb Toyota logic I fail to understand.

Corolla sales have been dropping. The Innova itself has eaten into part of the Corolla's market to an extent. Skoda has firmly placed itself as the economiser of that segment and the Optra is known as the bargain of that class.

Where does that leave the Corolla? Yes, it may still be the best selling car in it's segment (is it?) but it needs something fresh. What can Toyota do to increase interest and bring the spotlight back on their C+ class contender? The answer is right there, staring them in the face.

Use the Innova's 2.5 litre 102 hp diesel engine and take on Skoda head-to-head. The increased capacity would lower the cost of the engine, (a benefit Toyota may or may not pass to the customer considering their "price above the rest" strategy). The Corolla would run away with that segment of the market if they were to launch this.

Toyota make some terrific diesel engines, so why on earth are they not putting one in the Corolla? Is it that they never thought about this (I find that hard to believe), or is it that they just couldn't care less as their car is selling anyway. But that doesn't make sense either as who doesn't want to sell more!

I just can't think of a reason. Maybe some of you could?
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Old 20th July 2005, 12:01   #2
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Its stupid they actually have a 2.0 litre D-4D version in some countries but since its not available in Thailand it doesnt come to India ... Thats my take on this ... Infact now even this engine has been replaced with a smaller 89 bhp 1.4 ltr engine ... That wud mean higher FE too ...

Last edited by EVO6 : 20th July 2005 at 12:03.
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Old 20th July 2005, 12:12   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rtech
Use the Innova's 2.5 litre 102 hp diesel engine and take on Skoda head-to-head. The increased capacity would lower the cost of the engine, (a benefit Toyota may or may not pass to the customer considering their "price above the rest" strategy). The Corolla would run away with that segment of the market if they were to launch this.
Rtech, That is a good management principal to re-use the components to maximise returns and provide better features. But the fact remains that the Skoda would still have more F.E to the D-4D corolla. And considering the psyche of the Indian customer, Toyota would have to do more to grab the attention of the indian class C+ segment.. But on the other hand, i seriously doubt if the numbers justify the cost of innovation here considering the actual percentage of class C+ segment buyers vis-a-vis the small segment market..

Toyota is probably concentrating more on the Daihatsu small car project launch in India so much so that they've even stalled the FORTUNER launch in India..

Maybe as EVO mentioned, put another Diesel engine in the corolla..
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Old 20th July 2005, 12:14   #4
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Quote:
Use the Innova's 2.5 litre 102 hp diesel engine and take on Skoda head-to-head.
Quote:
I just can't think of a reason. Maybe some of you could?
Erm, The Corolla is FWD while the Innova is RWD?

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Old 20th July 2005, 12:14   #5
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i think the octavia sales figures are way higher ...look at the number of octavias on the road ...and they are all diesel !
the 2.5L diesel corolla can be a very profitable option in india ...

toyota corolla 's image as an economy car worldwide will get affected ...despite toyotas presence in the luxury C segment ...globally it is considered a small entry level economy car ...hence i feel ..if corolla is launched in diesel just to make it more economical it might hamper their "title" of being a cheap running car..
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Old 20th July 2005, 12:38   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO
Erm, The Corolla is FWD while the Innova is RWD?

GTO
That should not be a stumbling block. I haven't really studied the engine in this particular case though. I was just thinking aloud. But, there is no rule that a longitudinal engine cannot be mounted transversely. Infact most VW engines are capable of being mounted both ways. They are transverse in VW's and longitudinal in many/most Audi's to accomodate the AWD (TT is different).

The one thing that may go against this is the actual dimensions of the Innova engine. Maybe its height would be too much for a long slung bonnet of the Corolla.
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Old 20th July 2005, 12:42   #7
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AS mentioned by me ... They already fitted in the 2.0 ltr. D-4D engine in it ... Dont think the bay can accomodate the 2.5 ltr ..
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Old 20th July 2005, 13:09   #8
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Question

While on the topic of Toyota and specifically the Corolla, I was wondering why the Corolla attracts very little attention and praise from Team-BHPians. It's a big powerful car, right? Enlighten me please.

-- Harish
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Old 20th July 2005, 14:07   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rtech
Use the Innova's 2.5 litre 102 hp diesel engine and take on Skoda head-to-head. The increased capacity would lower the cost of the engine, (a benefit Toyota may or may not pass to the customer considering their "price above the rest" strategy). The Corolla would run away with that segment of the market if they were to launch this.
No offense, just my thoughts.

Well. They think of every possibility and this has to be one of them. Its not as easy like "Use the Innova's 2.5 litre 102 hp diesel engine and take on Skoda head-to-head". Of course, there are a lot of decision factors. Everything they do has a reason behind it. Its just the same as "Why doesn't Maruti put the Esteem engine into the Zen?!?". Its sooo easy to just think like this and say that "what do they think they are doing??! don't they have common sense?!?". Toyota is not going to read this thread and think "Have I done something wrong??! I think we should dump the Innova engine into the Corolla". Its a matter of many factors such as how good the engine is for the car, will the stock chassis handle the new engine, do we have to make changes in the chassis and body work?? The weight of the engine will be higher so what about the suspension changes?? Will it be cost-efficient for the company itself??! Due to this, the price of the car will also increase and that will be another decision factor for buyers.

Last edited by Gordon : 20th July 2005 at 14:10.
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Old 20th July 2005, 14:36   #10
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Default change its looks first

Toyota should first redesign the looks part of its car.
It is a classic case of a great car with an average look.
Everytime i think of buying the corola, its looks stop me.
It has a great Engine, good interiors and may be a tad shaddy handling.
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Old 20th July 2005, 14:42   #11
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Hey Gordon, all good points you have mentions.

Firstly, no need for the "no offense but.." part. isn't the whole point of a forum to discus different idea's? Whether feasable or not is another question!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon
Its not as easy like "Use the Innova's 2.5 litre 102 hp diesel engine and take on Skoda head-to-head". Of course, there are a lot of decision factors. Everything they do has a reason behind it.
Ofcourse there are reasons, and my thread was not meant to dive into the technical differences and conduct a feasibility report on this. I was wondering aloud as to why they have not launched a diesel variant in India when it is clear that the public favours good diesels engines over their petrol counterparts in India. We don't know for sure if the Innova engine would or would not work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon
Everything they do has a reason behind it.
I'm sure it does, hence the question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon
Its just the same as "Why doesn't Maruti put the Esteem engine into the Zen?!?"
The Zen is an economy hatchback that sells on FE and price. The Corolla is a large luxury car (in India) that sells on image, comfort, brand value etc. A rise in cost of the Zen would negatively affect sales. A marginal rise in cost of the Corolla will not as it's not a "rational" purchase.

Which boils down to my question...why haven't Toyota launched a diesel variant of the Corolla in India. Forget the Innova engine. Toyota have diesel Corolla's abroad. And it can't be a case of not having enough volume. The Octavia sells in lesser quantity but still manage to offer the public of a choice between petrol and diesel engines, at the same price I might add.

Is this another case of Toyota taking the Indian public for granted knowing the faith we have in the "Toyota" name?
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Old 20th July 2005, 15:08   #12
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I agree with Robin that a diesel option in the Corolla would do wonders to the sales figures.

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Old 20th July 2005, 15:22   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rtech
Which boils down to my question...why haven't Toyota launched a diesel variant of the Corolla in India. Forget the Innova engine. Toyota have diesel Corolla's abroad. And it can't be a case of not having enough volume. The Octavia sells in lesser quantity but still manage to offer the public of a choice between petrol and diesel engines, at the same price I might add.
I agree too. Toyota should remove a diesel variant. The sales of the Octavia diesel is good. I've seen sooo many Octavia's on road. It maybe the TDi, the RS or the Rider, Octavia as a whole has been successful. Even the Corollas have been very noticeable on the roads. If ever Toyota gets out a diesel variant, it should be either very good or they shouldn't remove it at all. If it fails, they know what kind of trouble thay can get into. I somehow feel that even if they remove a diesel variant, people may still prefer Skoda because of its average. I've no idea what average the Corolla Diesel Engine would give. Considering its a Toyota, I'm sure it would give a competitive average. Moreover, Octavia is becoming a favorite for everyone just like the case of the OHC. Lets wait and see what Toyota does about the Corolla. My guess is that they are "doing one thing at a time". I hope they don't get the diesel in the current generation when a new generation of Corolla is launched worldwide, so that they can dump all the extras in good old India.
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Old 20th July 2005, 16:41   #14
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A diesel corolla?
Sounds interesting but knowing Toyota, they will not go ahead with it.
If they do however, it will cannabalise Octy sales.
HighPreist,
The corolla isn't a favorite here because of it's ride, looks, road noise entering, price, build quality, safety.
It has a good engine and a good interior but what else?
it is still one of my fav. C seg cars though.
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Old 20th July 2005, 17:13   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon
Toyota should remove a diesel variant.
Gordon you mean "release a diesel variant" right??
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