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Old 6th December 2009, 15:47   #46
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China is a cheap manufacturing destination, no doubt. When one buys an ipod or a SonyEricsson thats made in China, one relies on the brand and not the nation to provide back up. People place trust in the manufacturer, their experience, their technology, and not the Chinese army to come and get things fixed. There are reputed Chinese brands no doubt but largely China is the worlds production line.

When Tata bought JLR, they kept faith in the company, assured they will try to retain as much workforce as possible, invested in the firm, brought out the like of the brilliant XF, XJ and soon the LRX. There was a lot of discomfort when they did take over, but Tata have now earned the trust of JLR fans worldwide.
The Chinese have also purchased foriegn car firms:
  1. SsangYong: This was purchased by SAIC (whose bought into GM India now) from GM Daewoo and a few months into purchasing it when SsangYong started making losses, SAIC washed their hands off it, they made absolutely no attempt to rescue it. A huge part of the workforce were fired, workers seized the co., Riots followed etc..etc... one gets the picture
  2. MG Rover: They shipped everything lock stock and barrell to China, and are making the same old cars, using the same old powerplants. They tried to assemble Chinese made TFs in the UK and sell it as UK made cars, no one was fooled.
The Chinese Auto Industry relies on two things, absence of any kind of copyright laws, and a heavy protection to the local manufacturers. Any MNC making cars in China have to collabrate with a local car maker and cannot venture into the market on their own steam like in India.
This gave the Chinese makers a free reign to photocopy established car designs (literally copy them as they are, not inspiration), spend nothing on R&D, make them in huge volumes to a huge protected car market and sell them cheap.

The likes of Tata, M&M, Bajaj, TVS spends a huge part of their income into R&D and fight tooth and nail with global car giants on equal footing in the Indian market and globally. They are not directly or indirectly owned and supported by Communist patrons and neither do foreign car companies have to rely on local collabrations to make and sell cars in India.

Open up the Chinese car market, ensure strict copyright laws, lets see who runs for cover then. The Chinese have been trying to export cars since the late 80s and since then there has been a lot of ball talks about how they are the next Japan or Korea of cars. Almost quarter of a century later I am yet to hear about any Chinese brands in any of the established car markets.
Tata and Mahindra are still novices in the global Auto industry, but have made huge strides from the Indica to the Manza, from the Commander to the Scorpio and soon the next generation of vehicles like the Indicruz will be comparable to the best out there.

We are today an export hub especially for small cars and quality auto components for almost all MNCs worth tehir salt. Heck we even export more cars than the Chinkies, despite having a far smaller market than them.
So all that talk about Chinky quality being always better than Indian ones especially in the Auto sector is bull crap.

Our Auto Industry is booming, it employs a huge part of our population, not just in production lines, but thousands of engineers and scientists involved in thorough R&D. They compete on equal footing with the best in the world. What I do not want is our Car market to be a dumping ground for cheap Chinese $h1t.
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Old 7th December 2009, 00:39   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shortbread View Post
China is a cheap manufacturing destination, no doubt. When one buys an ipod or a SonyEricsson thats made in China, one relies on the brand and not the nation to provide back up. People place trust in the manufacturer, their experience, their technology, and not the Chinese army to come and get things fixed. There are reputed Chinese brands no doubt but largely China is the worlds production line.

When Tata bought JLR, they kept faith in the company, assured they will try to retain as much workforce as possible, invested in the firm, brought out the like of the brilliant XF, XJ and soon the LRX. There was a lot of discomfort when they did take over, but Tata have now earned the trust of JLR fans worldwide.
The Chinese have also purchased foriegn car firms:
  1. SsangYong: This was purchased by SAIC (whose bought into GM India now) from GM Daewoo and a few months into purchasing it when SsangYong started making losses, SAIC washed their hands off it, they made absolutely no attempt to rescue it. A huge part of the workforce were fired, workers seized the co., Riots followed etc..etc... one gets the picture
  2. MG Rover: They shipped everything lock stock and barrell to China, and are making the same old cars, using the same old powerplants. They tried to assemble Chinese made TFs in the UK and sell it as UK made cars, no one was fooled.
The Chinese Auto Industry relies on two things, absence of any kind of copyright laws, and a heavy protection to the local manufacturers. Any MNC making cars in China have to collabrate with a local car maker and cannot venture into the market on their own steam like in India.
This gave the Chinese makers a free reign to photocopy established car designs (literally copy them as they are, not inspiration), spend nothing on R&D, make them in huge volumes to a huge protected car market and sell them cheap.

The likes of Tata, M&M, Bajaj, TVS spends a huge part of their income into R&D and fight tooth and nail with global car giants on equal footing in the Indian market and globally. They are not directly or indirectly owned and supported by Communist patrons and neither do foreign car companies have to rely on local collabrations to make and sell cars in India.

Open up the Chinese car market, ensure strict copyright laws, lets see who runs for cover then. The Chinese have been trying to export cars since the late 80s and since then there has been a lot of ball talks about how they are the next Japan or Korea of cars. Almost quarter of a century later I am yet to hear about any Chinese brands in any of the established car markets.
Tata and Mahindra are still novices in the global Auto industry, but have made huge strides from the Indica to the Manza, from the Commander to the Scorpio and soon the next generation of vehicles like the Indicruz will be comparable to the best out there.

We are today an export hub especially for small cars and quality auto components for almost all MNCs worth tehir salt. Heck we even export more cars than the Chinkies, despite having a far smaller market than them.
So all that talk about Chinky quality being always better than Indian ones especially in the Auto sector is bull crap.

Our Auto Industry is booming, it employs a huge part of our population, not just in production lines, but thousands of engineers and scientists involved in thorough R&D. They compete on equal footing with the best in the world. What I do not want is our Car market to be a dumping ground for cheap Chinese $h1t.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1-Testosterone View Post
That's your opinion
Again that's their problem! Actually a very good excuse you can say.
How many Japs are setting up their operations in PRC by the way?
Completely Illogical statement!
Again an Illogical statement.
Maybe you should see "why" the Japs are not setting up operations in PRC. What you think is an excuse, is actually a valid reason. I am beginning to doubt that you have no clue about the way China works.
As far as being illogical is concerned, I would like to see you come up with the name of a single (1) Chinese car manufacturer who invests in R&D.

Read the post I have also quoted above. It pretty much explains it all.
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Old 7th December 2009, 08:23   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shortbread View Post
The Chinese Auto Industry relies on two things, absence of any kind of copyright laws, and a heavy protection to the local manufacturers...
One more factor that is applicable to all sectors: the artificial exchange rate the Chinese currency, which is trading at aleast 25% LESS of it's face value against the USD. Read more here:
China's exchange-rate policy: A yuan-sided argument | The Economist

Quote:
Originally Posted by shortbread View Post
This gave the Chinese makers a free reign to photocopy established car designs (literally copy them as they are, not inspiration), spend nothing on R&D, make them in huge volumes to a huge protected car market and sell them cheap.
They even managed to "photo"copy the Boeing 707 aircraft! The press release said:
"After developing this kind of highly complex technology, one could no longer regard China as a backward country."

link: Shanghai Y-10 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 7th December 2009, 09:03   #49
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Great:

GM India can move on from selling rebadged Daewoos to rebadged Dong Fengs.
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Old 2nd May 2010, 09:44   #50
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Well, I can see that this national rivalry evokes some strong emotions from people on both sides of the debate.

I'm posting an update on the GM-SAIC story since I did not see it come up in a search of the forum.

Chinese carmaker SAIC muscles into GM India board-Automobiles-Auto-News By Industry-News-The Economic Times

A joint MD, equal board representation and more say in operations in GM India. SAIC have made their intentions very clear.

Looking back at the posts, I see a comparison made between this and the JLR-Tata combine. I only differ with the comparison in one respect: GM India is not an iconic brand that is falling to the brash newcomer with bags of money.

This news evoked a fairly strong emotional and patriotic response from me. As previous posters have pointed out - given that China is a manufacturing hub of the world, why should that be the case? I haven't given up buying other products that are made in china, so why now? Is the west any different in how they view India? I didn't restrict my choices to "desi" brands only, but now I feel compelled to exclude GM from the mix.

I have no clear answers. Its not a logical response, but nonetheless, it gives me pause when considering Chevy in my "what car" decision.

The only thing I can say is - all other buying decisions are made with the head, but the car is bought with the heart . "phir bhi dil hai hindustani."
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