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Old 12th October 2009, 09:11   #316
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The New tail lamps are = Accent tail lamps! Neverthless I don't think this is going to change the fate of this car.

The failure of the car has nothing do with it looking ugly (Debatable). Not many actually care about it.

But I do think people care if,
* it looks contempory or new or flashy. This always need not be beautiful.

Eg. Compare the Wagon-R pre and post facelift. The new fish mouth front end is horrible IMHO compared to the old one. But who cares? It's new, flashy etc.

* it provides value to the money spent?

1. There are people ready to spend the same money on premium hatch backs, like i20 because they feel it provides value by virtue of the features offered and upmarket feel (Debatable).

2. There are people who find value in the Indigo/Indigo CS for the sheer features it OFFERS AT A LOW PRICE.

Here's the mismatch -->
Mahindra-Renault targeted the later mentioned customers from the day they announced their partnership. They clearly marketed it as a car that would be cheap. No doubt about it. Even I believed that the car would compete with the Indigo.

But they launch the car at a premium price which target's the former mentioned customers.

Confused positioning and both of them didn't see value in it.

P.S: Reviving the car? Tough job. Many don't even know that there's a car called Logan!

Last edited by kiku007 : 12th October 2009 at 09:14.
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Old 12th October 2009, 09:38   #317
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I didnt find Logan is ugly. Infact I find the boxy design of the back is interesting. One of the reason if it is failing in the Indian market because Mahindra is not associated with so called cars production or distribution. Mahindra is known for 4x4.

I think it is hard for any brand of car below price 10lakh to challenge Maruti. What could be the reason?

Last edited by gonewithwind : 12th October 2009 at 09:42.
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Old 12th October 2009, 09:42   #318
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiku007 View Post
Many don't even know that there's a car called Logan!
Quite right!
Quote:
Originally Posted by gonewithwind View Post
What could be the reason?
Try FE, A.S.S, resale for a start.
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Old 12th October 2009, 11:06   #319
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The root cause for many failures of past models lke Fiat Uno , Renault to name a few is they tend to bring discarded madels into India-
When the Product life cycle of a car is at the last stage typically then they ship the old dies which they typically discard after say a one lakh stampings and send the old dies to india.

Only Fiat / Skoda / Toyota have leant from this and have introduced say Punto and Linea though couple of years late. Thats better as we get proven cars.
I was in paris twice last year but have never seen Logan there.
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Old 12th October 2009, 11:18   #320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonewithwind View Post
I think it is hard for any brand of car below price 10lakh to challenge Maruti. What could be the reason?
I would make it below 6Lac.

Even Maruti was not able to succeed in SX4. The moment customer is ready to pay above 7 or 8 lacs, the first thing strikes him is the Honda badge.
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Old 12th October 2009, 11:25   #321
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The New, so called "Facelifted" Play model is the ugliest car i have seen in quite a while. They are digging there own grave with such ugly design, what with all the red alloys and all.

The whole strategy from Renault-M&M is not working as expected, both from them and also the market. I feel if Renault focus on the technology and allow M&M for the market positioning and ASC, things will improve. But if French ego does not allow for that, then bye bye Renault. Also, they should refrain from brining long forgotten and discarded models from EU to India.Otherwise, they will join the long list of forgotten auto companies in India like Peugeot etc.

Last edited by naveenvenkatesh : 12th October 2009 at 11:26.
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Old 12th October 2009, 11:42   #322
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Originally Posted by YVES View Post
The root cause for many failures of past models lke Fiat Uno , Renault to name a few is they tend to bring discarded madels into India
I know its off topic, but UNO would have not been a failure but PAL-FIAT Strike killed it. I think it had a record booking of some 290,000 cars but I am not sure!
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Old 12th October 2009, 12:36   #323
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I know its off topic, but UNO would have not been a failure but PAL-FIAT Strike killed it. I think it had a record booking of some 290,000 cars but I am not sure!
Thats right.

Till now, no car (even Maruti & Hyundai) has beaten this record of record bookings. This record stands unbeaten.

Though the model was outdated, it was a gem of a car and PAL killed it.

I have seen many Unos still being used in UK and Turkey.
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Old 12th October 2009, 12:48   #324
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I have seen many Unos still being used in UK and Turkey.
Actually this was the platform for many first gen Palio owners. They knew what FIAT was with the Uno. I have a neighbour who owned an Uno and upgraded to a GTX. Reason quoted: Once a FIAT always a FIAT.

Same case with the Logan but a different killing reason.
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Old 12th October 2009, 20:17   #325
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Till now, no car (even Maruti & Hyundai) has beaten this record of record bookings. This record stands unbeaten.
Unbelievable, but even the Tata Nano could not eclipse the Uno's record!

Back to the Logan, its a good sedan sold at the wrong price. The market would have borne the plain jane looks + cost-cutting quality if it were priced well. Problem was, the Logan ended up substantially more expensive than the Indigo TDi (about a lakh OTR?). Thus, those on a budget chose the Indigo and those willing to spend went on to the Dzire, Fiesta etc.
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Old 12th October 2009, 20:29   #326
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Originally Posted by mjothi View Post
The moment customer is ready to pay above 7 or 8 lacs, the first thing strikes him is the Honda badge.
Err make it 9lac + the ANHC is above 9 lacs now unless you wanna burst bubbles and buy Jazz!
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Old 13th October 2009, 19:27   #327
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Unbelievable, but even the Tata Nano could not eclipse the Uno's record!

Back to the Logan, its a good sedan sold at the wrong price. The market would have borne the plain jane looks + cost-cutting quality if it were priced well. Problem was, the Logan ended up substantially more expensive than the Indigo TDi (about a lakh OTR?). Thus, those on a budget chose the Indigo and those willing to spend went on to the Dzire, Fiesta etc.
First the curious case of the Uno :

1. It had record bookings because it was perceived to be a spacious ( in its segment) and rugged car - this was borne out afterwards when customers ( your's truly recommended the Uno to his Pater) received it.

2. It was dented somewhat by the strike at PAL, atrocious supply chain, dealership experience and ultimately questions/doubts on its fuel efficiency ( most times incorrect).

3. The buyers had to contend with bad a.s.s, irregular supply of spares and bad PAL management.

4. No car till date has given me such fun in engaging gear and pushing the throttle as my dear petrol Uno; add stability, deduct a heavy hydraulic clutch and slow acting brakes....

I had a tough time discounting the Linea as my next new car because of the good experience of the petrol Uno.

Re. Logan, my sense is :

A. Indians, at least most of them, love flash in their cars ( witness satisfaction at generous splashes of chrome, focus on frills and ICE)
B. Cars are a way to make a statement ( arrived in life, directly attributed to centuries of poverty and political-economic subservience)
C. The Logan has been positioned as an inexpensive sedan - for most Indians a sedan is to aspire to, and has to have some flash
D. The posts here suggest that it is priced higher by say approx. 1 lac - I'll go along with it

So, people will buy a sedan at a lower price point if they're looking for VFM and jump beyond the Logan to a Swift Dzire/ SX4/City/Verna, if they want to appear 'smart'. They now have Linea too.

Moreover the marketing message stemming out of Mahindra is quantitatively and qualitatively weak ; I haven't seen assertive communication campaigns on a sustained basis.

QED

P.S.: In EU, Logan has struck the right chord with people who are fed up of cars with high TCO, i.e., people who require a VFM car for their limited requirements such as city commutes in a safe, simple, easy to maintain car.

That's the difference between Indians' aspirations and Europeans' requirements. Logan hasn't been able to bridge these conflicting elements.

Regards
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Old 30th October 2009, 23:32   #328
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There is still a ray of hope perhaps.. following is an excerpt from an article from reuters, dated October 27.


Quote:
A Renault official, who declined to be named, said the two companies were working to give the Logan a face-lift, which would go beyond the merely cosmetic. "We are working together for a revamped strategy for the Logan. Once we have decided what to do with it, there will be an infusion of equity

Source: Renault alliance woes highlight need for tech focus | Business News | Reuters
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Old 31st October 2009, 09:50   #329
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In comparable markets in Latin America and South Africa, Logan is priced equally or lower than equivalent spec Suzuki Swift. Compare that against almost a Lakh of premium in India, especially in diesel models.

Pricing seems the only factor that did it in.
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Old 31st October 2009, 12:54   #330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjothi View Post
I would make it below 6Lac.

Even Maruti was not able to succeed in SX4. The moment customer is ready to pay above 7 or 8 lacs, the first thing strikes him is the Honda badge.
mjothi, the success of Santro and i10 and i20 (i was totally wrong about this car) suggests it is possible to beat Maruti in lower segments too.

Even though i have no records to say it, my hunch is that most of Hundai sales comes from urban areas. Rural's where Maruti rules due to it higher service presence.

Anyway, coming back to topic I am glad that Logan flopped. I know its a little insensitive to Logan owners, and i am sorry for them - but this is a good case study for companies - they cannot sell low cost products and outdated models at premium prices in India anymore. I am sure Renault learnt its lesson and will do a better effort for the v2, if there's one.

Last edited by SkyWalker : 31st October 2009 at 12:55.
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