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Old 25th July 2005, 17:12   #31
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F1,
its not their job to repair what they fit. My frnds new zen had a defective lock on a rear door and the dealer REPLACED all four locks, dicky lock and ignition lock. Please distinguish between REPAIR and REPLACE.

ABS, EBD etc CANNOT BE REPAIRED at dealer level. It is only replaced.
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Old 25th July 2005, 17:21   #32
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Originally Posted by RX135
Guys, a rather dumb question! How does it matter if it is one sensor or six? Agreed, 6 sensors will provide data from 6 different locations, but if they a/c is cooling through only front ducts, how does it matter? It is a different story, if there are individual ducts to cool different parts of the car separately based on feedback from sensor. But as long as cooling is done through vents on dashboard, I doubt if it would matter much. And I am not sure how many cars other than S class have separate a/c vents for different locations.
as you have said that 6 sensors will provide 6 different readings & to find the actual temprature their mean will be taken thus giving you more accurate readings

imagine haveing two sensors one in front & one in back
now if you have set temp knob on 22C naturally front temp. will be lower than rear (say at front 20C & at back 26C) now having a sensor in front will stop AC at 22C front temprature while at assumed tempratures due to two sensors the temprature noted will be 24C & thus AC will still run till 22C is obtained

with six sensors placed at six different places will give you more accurate readings
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Old 25th July 2005, 17:37   #33
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Agreed, 6 sensors will provide data from 6 different locations, but if they a/c is cooling through only front ducts, how does it matter? It is a different story, if there are individual ducts to cool different parts of the car separately based on feedback from sensor. But as long as cooling is done through vents on dashboard, I doubt if it would matter much.
exactomondo, rx..!!! the sensors come into play only for the desired temp. of that particular region, and having one or six is useless unless there are vents placed throughout the cabin...

and not just the s class, but even the superb(skoda) has vents at the rear, to fully utilise its climate control....

as for the abs and ebd; the ebd works in association or in conjunction with the abs, by regulating the flow of the hydraulics evenly in the ratio as designed by the manufacturer (for ex., a 60:40 front:rear split). the ebd module is placed inside the abs, and both work as one unit. you can't just replace the abs or ebd system alone- they are paired. they are monitored by the controller, which, is detected by the ecm/ecu.
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Old 25th July 2005, 17:50   #34
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another word of polite advice..get above the site u mentioned...there is more to ACC than a basic air conditioning system..no doubt if IEEE has kept a price tag of $ 5 on each paper on design of the same...
Apologies there pal. I happened to have the issue of IEEE Spectrum which covered the article and remembered the link they provided which is why i gave you the same.

Getting back tot he point, as merve explains, the sensors are timed in a way that once the ambient temp (say set to 22) is reached, the compressor continues to blow till another 2-3 degrees reduction at grill. So Maruti definitely has timed them to such an extent for sure.

The reduction in no. of sensors besides cost issue mite not necessarily mean an inefficient functioning AC. Can only comment on it after extensive use, coupled with scientific measurments. Rather than speculate, a word with an HVAC engineer at Maruti (or the AC manufacturer) should end most doubts.

Revv
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Old 25th July 2005, 19:18   #35
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adya, you are right. But with a static a/c setup, the temperature distribution in cabin is almost always going to be similar and predictable. So, effect of 6 sensors can almost be achieved by having 1 calibrated sensor. Which is why I think it may not be much necessary to have 6 sensors. It is good to have them, but I am not sure how much value would they add for their associated cost.
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Old 25th July 2005, 19:23   #36
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I have dual zone ATC (automatic temp control) in my car and so let me throw my 2 cents in.

I set my home A/C at 72 degF and its fine, but in my car, I have to set it at 68F to
feel the same level of chillness.

Human brain works on a closed loop principle
Nobody is going to set a certain temp just because their uncle said, "Beta set it at 22C". If you find 22C
isin't cool enough, set it at 20C and try.

As far as having more sensors, it helps to maintain uniform temp in all areas of the cabin. so that the front is
not chiller than the back. Its gonna be different in every car depending on the number of sensors, their location
and most importantly how the ECU software is calibrated. 22C in a Skoda will not feel the same as 22C in a Swift.
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Old 25th July 2005, 19:26   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RX135
adya, you are right. But with a static a/c setup, the temperature distribution in cabin is almost always going to be similar and predictable. So, effect of 6 sensors can almost be achieved by having 1 calibrated sensor. Which is why I think it may not be much necessary to have 6 sensors. It is good to have them, but I am not sure how much value would they add for their associated cost.
i also don't know how much temprature sensor will cost (on my Astra the external temprature sensor costs about 800/-)

but it will surely make more accurate working of AC

may be just may be maruti is giving one sensor because the side airbags are removed from indian model so there might not be a safe space to place temprature sensor
but then again these are all guesses
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Old 25th July 2005, 19:32   #38
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22C in a Skoda will not feel the same as 22C in a Swift.


temprature is an absolute quantity (along with length & time)
22C will be just the same anywhere in world

if there is no error in sensor then it will be same everywhere

may be sun light falling directly on car can make some difference but these are external causes

Last edited by adya33 : 25th July 2005 at 19:38.
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Old 25th July 2005, 20:26   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adya33


temprature is an absolute quantity (along with length & time)
22C will be just the same anywhere in world

if there is no error in sensor then it will be same everywhere

may be sun light falling directly on car can make some difference but these are external causes
What I am trying to say is that in a Skoda the temp sensor could be near your feet and in a Swift it could be on top of your head, which means which causes the difference in your face. Of course, AT the sensor the temp will be 22C. Every company has a different way of calibrating the system.

102 bhp in an Accent Tornado FEELS different from 102 bhp in a Honda City VTEC.
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Old 25th July 2005, 20:48   #40
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i guess there will be some impact for sure but not to the extent of the rear side being hot and the front side being cool. Since air circulates in the entire cabin the temperature more or less remains the same with proper blower settings. The sensors surely helps but it all depends on the circulation of air inside the cabin from the vents.

Instead of the sensors i think AC vents at the rear would have done a lot of gud with proper controls. Am i askin 2 much from a 5.5L car...yes i am..
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Old 25th July 2005, 21:55   #41
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Default RATs! and howz DAT?

Guys, may I permitted my 2 cents?
DAT and RAT - two very important temperatures these. DAT (Delivery Air Temp/Grill Temp in our case) and RAT (Return Air Temp), along with the Superheat of the Aircon system are very important in determining the efficiency of a Ac system. DAT works irrespective of the RAT. The comp gets it cut-in/cut-out signals from the RAT sensor.
In the Swift, the small little slot near the left wiper stick is where the RAT sensor is located which commands the AC comp.

With the AC running in recirc mode, the blowers are blowing in cold air and the same air is being sucked back on over the evaporating coils and being cooled further. When the RAT sensors says "Enough", the comps gets the feed-back and after a short delay in time/lowering of temp (both work on a similar linear trend or rather any fuzzy logic computer will assume so until the time that it is fed other data viz, data on Pax, ambient temps and so on..the list is endless) it shuts down, waiting for the RAT sensor to tell it to "wake-up" again.

An interesting fact to note here is that with such small cabin volume as in the Swift, it really does not matter, in practical terms, whether you have one RAT or half a dozen RATs - it is just the same since the parcel of air in question is very very small. However, we can keep arguing for academic reasons till the cows come home and believe you me, Maruti will never fit another sensor (and I concur as far as the Swift is concerned).
Of course, if Maruti were to manufacture the next generation of Maybachs (The QE2 of cars, IMHO), a few dandy sensors may come in handy by virtue of the lenght of the car.

As some spledid chappie pointed out, the calibration of the sensors!
Lo and behold, this is the time the Fat enters the fire. You can have the best of the AC units and comps and they are worthless if the DAT & RAT sensors are not calib well.
The USDA (US deptt. of Agriculture) accepts a variation of +-0.2 degs C only. My LG AC at home ( effing useless piece of Korean c***) displays 22 degs for a actual RAT of 18 degs.
The point is, to each is own - the deeper you plough, the sooner you realize that there are too many variables involved to actually get a "Theoretically Perfect" system and believe me, that surely does not need 6 sensors.

My friend Muni is dead right!
Chill Out, guys.

Last edited by Xsailor : 25th July 2005 at 21:58.
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Old 25th July 2005, 22:02   #42
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and yeah, maruti's A.S.S's are a tad overhyped..... i don't think the after sales support of maruti is any better than hyundai..... which, by the way, is pretty good..... but, it also differs from region to region; and the dealers, too..... some of the dealers go out of their way to help their customers

dude,

my axle is on the verge on breaking because of the poor roads an dalso becaus eof my poor driving.inspite of that i am getting the part replaced entirely free of cost just becasu ei have an extended warranty.

my starter had a minor problem,but again it was replaced under warranty.
my brakes were having problems,and the booster assembly was replaced.

all this after 3 years of usingthe car.



am not sure of any other manufacturer giving such ASS.


now does any one have any doubts???????
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Old 25th July 2005, 23:26   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuRnT RuBbEr


that auto climate control is just a gimmick in my opinion...a climate control without sensors...what does maruti want
This topic diverted from "Maruti Customer Support" to "All about A/C Sensors and Cooling"

BTW I own a Zen and I am quite SATISFIED with their service....I am referring to Sai Service here... only times I had problems was:--->

1) Brake pads not replaced and I was billed (Later realised it and got them changed free of cost)
2) They weren't able to fix my rear seat lock and are still unable to do it.
3) Sold me the sporty pedal kit but were not ready to fit it for me saying that they did not have a drill machine.. (Atleast don't lie to me that a leading Maruti Sales and Service station didn't have a drill machine}
4) Mud flaps for Old Zen not available .. suggested to try the local accessory shop outside.. ***.. its rainy season and I feel they should stock parts like these...and I don't prefer using the local ones from the accessory shop (mebbe his close relative owned the shop LOL)
5) Service station doesn't have guys to do minor jobs like fitting broken RVM's, Mudflaps, replace switches, etc...and you are politely asked to get lost from there as they are too busy handling volumes of their car fleet.

Last edited by moralfibre : 25th July 2005 at 23:31.
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Old 25th July 2005, 23:32   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moralfibre
2) They weren't able to fix my rear seat lock and are still unable to do it.
3...
does ur rear seat vibrate when its empty.
????

then its common problem on all zens.it can be solved by putting blak adhesive tape on the hook ,so that the seat holds tighter.the sounds have to go.
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Old 26th July 2005, 10:33   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ritik123
F1,
its not their job to repair what they fit. My frnds new zen had a defective lock on a rear door and the dealer REPLACED all four locks, dicky lock and ignition lock. Please distinguish between REPAIR and REPLACE.

ABS, EBD etc CANNOT BE REPAIRED at dealer level. It is only replaced.
whatever u say.but let me tell u repair has a broad meaning.when i say repair it can be repair the ABS system by replacing the control module.

Last edited by merve_extreme : 26th July 2005 at 10:35.
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