Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


View Poll Results: Tata in future project
Should Tata resurrect the Magna? YES 16 45.71%
Should Tata resurrect the Magna? NO 5 14.29%
Should Tata launch a premium brand for their higher end cars? YES 24 68.57%
Should Tata launch a premium brand for their higher end cars? NO 5 14.29%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 35. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 3rd August 2005, 13:55   #16
Team-BHP Support
 
tsk1979's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 22,955
Thanked: 15,648 Times
Default

@ Steeroid, Tata is not going to resurrect magma, instead a new platform is coming called the X3(or was it Xover,X7) platform. This will be in market end of 2007 and will be the base for new tata SuVs, MuVs and large cars. The indica platform will be replaced with a modified platform which has a longer wheelbase. So Tata will have products in the sub 5 bracket, nee the indigo/indica Common rail and the Xover platform. the safari/sumo/sierra platform is on the way out and the current safari will remain in production for another 4 years till 2008/2009 till the X platform cars come into market. However the engine linup you see will remain constant. They are using 407 block as it can be used uniformally across sumo/telcoline/tatamobile/safari/new platform with different heads and it will keep production costs down.
As for the now stable indica/indigo cars expect major engine changes before the next emission norms come out, maybe even before that. You see, tata indica is the only Normally aspirated IDI Euro-III compliant engine in the world, and tata may not be able to push things further on emission front.
tsk1979 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd August 2005, 15:58   #17
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: N.A
Posts: 6,834
Thanked: 1,503 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by man23ish

By the way, congratulations on being the first TBHPian to get the hands on the New Safari.
Thank you, but that thread has been locked for some reason...am a bit pissed off at not being informed.
Steeroid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd August 2005, 16:00   #18
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: N.A
Posts: 6,834
Thanked: 1,503 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmat
re: Magna - it was a boring stodgy looking barge when revealed in 2000. It would sink like a stone if released now unless you do the "Toyota Crown" route and focus on the taxi market
I should've clarified beforehand - I meant Magna as a concept (C++/D- segment) and not the exact prototype they had fooled around with a few years ago.
Steeroid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd August 2005, 16:17   #19
Senior - BHPian
 
turbo_lover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Windsor
Posts: 1,377
Thanked: 4 Times
Default

Quote:
Tata is known for coming up with products which are not up to the quality levels and then gradually improve. At low segments this works fine, but at higher segments they cannot afford it.
reason being - TATA is having to compete with car makers who are much more experienced in the Passenger car business . I think TATA has done a great job building such a successful line up .Best part being the fact that they are constantly improving and upgrading their products.(indigo GSX and the DICOR Safari Vxi)
I dont see a reason why TATA should not go ahead with the launch of high segment passenger cars under a premium brand.

Last edited by turbo_lover : 3rd August 2005 at 16:18.
turbo_lover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd August 2005, 17:01   #20
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: pune
Posts: 2,088
Thanked: 48 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbo_lover
reason being - TATA is having to compete with car makers who are much more experienced in the Passenger car business .
For end user, that hardly matters. What matters to him is what he value gets back for his money. If that is not upto the mark, customer wouldn't give a damn about how well are TATA products improving. He might as well wait till they get better and refined product out in the market, or invest his money into time-tested reliable brands like Toyota, Honda or Skoda.
RX135 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd August 2005, 18:22   #21
Team-BHP Support
 
Samurai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: B'lore-Manipal
Posts: 22,385
Thanked: 14,315 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid
Thank you, but that thread has been locked for some reason...am a bit pissed off at not being informed.
I think that thread got merged with this one: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5676 (Safari Common Rail Engine Launch? EDIT 010805 Now driven. Edit 190805 Now BOUGHT!!!)
Samurai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd August 2005, 19:15   #22
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: N.A
Posts: 6,834
Thanked: 1,503 Times
Default

Thanks Samurai - there was apparently some error which has been rectified and the thread is available again with an edited title.

TY mods.
Steeroid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd August 2005, 21:13   #23
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Mpower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 10,432
Thanked: 1,682 Times
Default

Absolutely right. TATA needs to be thinking of a C seg car very seriously. Every time Ratan Tata talks about the 1 lakh car, I used to wonder what’s wrong with him. The Indian economy is growing at a torrid pace. Here you have millions of satisfied Indica/Indigo customer who is a few years will be ready for their next car in the next segment. You can’t sell them a Safari. Safari is a niche vehicle and not a mass market vehicle.

TATA is risking losing these customers to the likes of Optra 1.6, Corolla, Civic, New Ikon etc because there is simply no suitable option from the TATA stable. The formula for TATA’s success will be similar to the Indica formula. The keywords are “Diesel” and “space” and “killer pricing”. IMO the following should be the specs of their C seg – car

For length, height and ergonomics……benchmark the Corolla
For body rigidity and suspension……..benchmark the Octavia
For diesel engine……..benchmark the Octavia
For petrol engine……….benchmark the Corolla
For price…………benchmark the Optra 1.6. (while offering a diesel)
For looks…hire an Italian design house…….don’t even think of doing it in India.

There is a great opportunity for this hypothetical car because it DOSENT EXIST.

There are 2 main roadblocks to implementing this vehicle. One is that there are simply no volumes in the segment for TATA to do an all-new platform with 2 engines and a one gearbox. The other guys like Optra, Corolla can survive because they are global players and sell 1000s more of the same cars worldwide.

Second like someone pointed out, TATA needs a major improvement in “attention to detail” weather its fit and finish, NVH, panel fit, shift quality. Like they say “the devil is in the details” and these things cant be learnt overnight or copied. Premium market buyers can be picky.

As far as creating a upscale brand, that’s a great idea……..if TITAN needed TANISHQ to go upmarket with watches you can do same with cars. But the core values should be the same. TATA can also make a deluxe version of Safari with this brand name.
Mpower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th August 2005, 00:35   #24
Senior - BHPian
 
Revvmaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 1,186
Thanked: 45 Times
Default

Quote:
For looks?hire an Italian design house??.don?t even think of doing it in India.
Quote:
As far as creating a upscale brand, that?s a great idea??..if TITAN needed TANISHQ to go upmarket with watches you can do same with cars. But the core values should be the same. TATA can also make a deluxe version of Safari with this brand name
Have a look at Titan. They have the wonderful Titan Design Centre that creates fantastic designs and offers them at prices way below the market benchmarks. Why not have a "better" Tata Motors Design Centre that replicates the same ideology like Titan. Sure, one might consider the current car designs done by mainstream car cos. and their inhouse departments as a disastrous start, but they are the seedlings to a new beginning.

Tata needs to address more issues than just meeting emission norms. For one, Ratan Tata himself considers Toyota as the benchmark for all tooling and production processes. Well, learn from them then. No one is going to pay his hard earned lakhs on a car that only features more accessories (Indigo GSX, Safari Limited Edition etc.), if the dashboard quality is shoddy, the screws aren't tightly fit, front suspension mountings fail et all. There are two approaches in-front of Tata

Plan A. Continue developing the existing platforms. "Revitalize" them, freshen them up and sell them, even if they have inherent engineering flaws that no amount of 'fiddling around' with the design can solve. This saves costs, but doesn't make up on lost sales. Neither does it uplift the Tata brandname to a reliable and quality manufacturer. And this is where the current Tata setup is. Sure they sell an amazing 1,00,000+ units a year. But that can easily be higher if they opt plan B.

Plan B. Develop a pathbreaking new platform. Engineer the platform in a way that guarantees sales success without having to do the 'tinkering' around. Then invade world markets with this new engineering marvel. And watch your exports shoot through the roof. Fiascos like Rover will become a thing of the past. Net result? Tata getting elevated in the World Auto market as a quality manufacturer. Tough? Not really. Yes the initial investments are high but the payoff is mighty. One look at the IMV platform from Toyota and you'll know what i am talking.

Tata can surely capture the imagination by offering 'More for less'. Now that has to change to 'More quality for less'.

Revv

Last edited by Revvmaster : 4th August 2005 at 00:36.
Revvmaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th August 2005, 01:38   #25
Team-BHP Support
 
manson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 3,549
Thanked: 2,040 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Revvmaster
Tata can surely capture the imagination by offering 'More for less'. Now that has to change to 'More quality for less'.

Revv
you mean "yet more dreams per car" ?

manson .
manson is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 4th August 2005, 08:41   #26
BHPian
 
sivadas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 487
Thanked: 53 Times
Default

Quote:
One is that there are simply no volumes in the segment for TATA to do an all-new platform with 2 engines and a one gearbox.
As Mpower mentioned, this is the main reason why Tata was not in a hurry to enter this segment according to me. But they will do it eventually. So what can we expect? S class value at C+ segment price?
sivadas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th August 2005, 08:53   #27
Senior - BHPian
 
turbo_lover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Windsor
Posts: 1,377
Thanked: 4 Times
Default

Quote:
So what can we expect? S class value at C+ segment price?
i dont think they will price it too cheap man ..then the whole idea of buying a class car is lost .. they should price it alongside Sonata ...a premium brand must some have some dignity ...

given the resources TATA has they can deck it up to the maxx and still keep their costs low..even if they build an S class they can still manage to price it 10 lacs cheaper..

Last edited by turbo_lover : 4th August 2005 at 08:55.
turbo_lover is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Yes, the time has come for me! wmanu Introduce yourself 12 11th November 2009 12:34
Has the time for Option Packages come in India? amit The Indian Car Scene 9 14th March 2007 17:54
Has the time come to say no to the OHC. rahul_intlad The Indian Car Scene 54 12th January 2007 23:46


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 20:27.

Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks