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Old 1st April 2009, 19:41   #151
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Agree with the post, but you also have to agree that - India remains a poor country till today - due to very fault of its own citizens -> having more than 1 child (overpopulation), not removing curropt leaders from office through People's Revolution (like in Thailand recently), and disregard to its own environment and surroundings by throwing trash everywhere, and, treating a foreign tourist better than a local Indian in his own country, not raising voice like China/Russia does, and always acting like a Mice overall.

No wonder, world treats India like crap.
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Old 1st April 2009, 20:16   #152
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What about the skewed excise duties favouring underpowered engines - which result in manufactures plonking anaemic engine options in their models, all of which do not necessarily mean better FE.
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Old 1st April 2009, 20:31   #153
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So much for India shining.

Anyway I do agree with you on certain things

1) Allowing imports- NO WAY IN HELL, if they want to sell it here then go ahead and build it here, otherwise get out.

2) Mercedes...yeah plain stupid, no one knows why the price of E keeps doubling but hey we buy them so they sell them, quite sad.
Agree with the rest of your point about mercedes.



What can TBHP do? We are a third world country but we act like were the frickin Unites states of America. Manufacturers are just doing good business because of the incompetence of our leaders. Deal with it.
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Old 1st April 2009, 20:40   #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho View Post
Here is a nice exerpt from an article here:

“The total tax on a passenger car amounts to 54 per cent of its basic price at the factory gate. As much as 35 per cent of what a customer pays for the car today goes as tax to the Union and state governments,”

Makes me wonder if I am overtaxed already?
good figures you have put there. but the problem is not with the tax/rate per se - but how it is deployed further for the overall betterment of the stakeholders of that industry or general public..

thats is where you find the bucket leaks big time in our country.

high tax rates are a norm in many countries but the taxed amount comes back to the citizen in ways of govt spending. i wonder where all that money goes in our case !
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Old 1st April 2009, 22:05   #155
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Nice thread Sunil.
Customers dont have many options so they go for high priced so called 'Premium' cars. Politicians are busy milking money which govt levies in the name of taxes.

Most people have a bad word or 2 for Tata cars(even the ones who have never sit or driven a tata vehicle), still TATA sells like hot cake.
Easy to understand why - they give their vehicles at affordable prices for a common man. Be it Indica,Indigo, Safari or Nano. If you analyze their vehicles with the competition the prices of Tata ones are relatively low.

Likewise am sure with Prima launch Tata will give competition to Honda and the rest. Maybe then we see some reasonable prices from other manufacturers.

I am just taking Tata as an example.
The hard truth is till we buy at high rate they sell at high rate. Moment we will stop they will reduce it. The point is - will we stop?
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Old 1st April 2009, 22:11   #156
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Originally Posted by harry10 View Post
Nice thread Sunil.
The hard truth is till we buy at high rate they sell at high rate. Moment we will stop they will reduce it. The point is - will we stop?
+1 to that. This process is what economists call 'price discovery' in a market.

I wonder though, how much of the 'premium' is due to high duties/ low localisation etc and how much is pure profiteering by the luxury brands.

To be fair to the manufacturers, the volumes are not enough for them to take advantage of the cheaper labour here.
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Old 1st April 2009, 22:11   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho View Post
Here is a nice exerpt from an article here:

“The total tax on a passenger car amounts to 54 per cent of its basic price at the factory gate. As much as 35 per cent of what a customer pays for the car today goes as tax to the Union and state governments,”

Makes me wonder if I am overtaxed already?
great points there, knew about the 34% to union and state but did not the overall tax figure of 54%

so basically we contribute towards ministers owning passats, jettas (yes seen quite a few lal battis). Basically any car :(

Feels bad, imagine a guy buys a 800 and feels he is contributing towards a minister buying a fancy car
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Old 1st April 2009, 22:52   #158
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I believe a lot of guys here feel the same way. I can say for sure that I have felt the very same way ever since I came to know about the actual price of these vehicles in other countries.

There a lot of good points about the taxation for a country like India but sadly the complete system is abused and all the money ends up in politicians hand in one way or the other.

In our country its still a luxury to own a vehicle (whether you believe it or not) or at least thats the way the governments look at it or I feel they look at it. I might be wrong but its just something I feel because otherwise why would they be taxing at ridiculous rates!

I have no issues paying taxes as long as something or someway it comes back to us in a good service by the government.
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Old 2nd April 2009, 01:07   #159
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I think it also has to do with the average persons perception of a car. A car in most households is a relatively new concept in India compared to some western nations. Hence just having a car seems like a lot to most. Add to that the fact that firms like Honda and Toyota use the ignorance of the consumer to make them believe that cars like the Civic and the Corolla are premium goods and hence people need to pay a premium for it. Even a firm like Hyundai acts like it is a premium brand in India.
Another point concerning features is the rules our government has. For example the average consumer who till date had no option of an airbag suddenly finds this car offering them. For him/her it is a luxury. However if the Govt. makes airbags mandatory to sell a car in India, all manufacturers will automatically incorporate it into the price.
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Old 2nd April 2009, 02:51   #160
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Cool Cars are still a luxury!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jasher26 View Post
so basically we contribute towards ministers owning passats, jettas (yes seen quite a few lal battis). Basically any car :(
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_know View Post
In our country its still a luxury to own a vehicle (whether you believe it or not) or at least thats the way the governments look at it or I feel they look at it. I might be wrong but its just something I feel because otherwise why would they be taxing at ridiculous rates!
Those 543 representatives elected by us travel in cars worth crores of rupees each, in fact, some proudly displaying an entire personal fleet of exotic supercars. But look at the declaration of assets by these very same candidates for the upcoming elections: Some of them don't even have a car on their name !
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Old 2nd April 2009, 07:44   #161
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Aren't there similar threads which this one can be merged with - though quite agree with the statements.
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Old 2nd April 2009, 10:35   #162
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We need to also look at total cost of ownership rather then just price of the car. We look at USD prices of cars, convert them into INR and get irritated that we are being overcharged.

Since I used to sell GM and VW's in Canada I can tell you that the cost esclates pretty quickly out there. Over and above the MSRP / agreed price you pay:

Freight CAD 500-800 depending on model. The touareg had frieght of CAD 1100 over there.
Air conditioning Tax CAD 100
Admin fees USD 200-400 depending on dealership and make.
Of course GST and PST which was 15% in Canada back in 2005.

Let's not forget that you have to renew your number plates / ownership every year. This is probably equivalent to the OT road tax we pay. This is approx CAD 75. Kind of better to pay it every year IMO.

And the killer (ironically!) is insurance. There are people paying more on insurance every month then the car's EMI out there!
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Old 2nd April 2009, 11:54   #163
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I came across this mail a few days back, interesting read!
--------
Politics is not a SERVICE anymore but a PROFESSION.

An Important Issue!
Salary & Govt. Concessions for a Member of Parliament (MP)

Monthly Salary: Rs. 12,000/-

Expense for Constitution per month: Rs. 10,000/-

Office expenditure per month: Rs. 14,000/-

Traveling concession (Rs. 8 per km): Rs. 48,000/-
(eg. For a visit from South India to Delhi & return: 6000 km)

Daily DA TA during parliament meets: Rs. 500/day

Charge for 1 class (A/C) in train: Free (For any number of times)
(All over India )

Charge for Business Class in flights: Free for 40 trips / year (With wife or P.A.)

Rent for MP hostel at Delhi: Free.

Electricity costs at home: Free up to 50,000 units.

Local phone call charge: Free up to 1, 70,000 calls...

TOTAL expense for a MP [having no qualification] per year:
Rs.32, 00,000/-
[i.e. 2.66 lakh/month]
TOTAL expense for 5 years: Rs. 1, 60, 00,000/-

For 534 MPs, the expense for 5 years:
Rs. 8,54,40,00,000/-
(Nearly 855 crores)

AND THE PRIME MINISTER IS ASKING THE HIGHLY QUALIFIED, OUT PERFORMING CEOs TO CUT DOWN THEIR SALARIES......

This is how all our tax money is been swallowed and price hike on our regular commodities.
And this is the present condition of our country:

855 crores could make their life livable!!
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Old 2nd April 2009, 13:05   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho View Post
“The total tax on a passenger car amounts to 54 per cent of its basic price at the factory gate. As much as 35 per cent of what a customer pays for the car today goes as tax to the Union and state governments,”

Makes me wonder if I am overtaxed already?
To give you an idea what the car companies make on each car sold.

Hyundai Motor India Ltd exports its Accent CRDi to Hyundai South Africa for 1.70 Lakhs to be sold there.
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Old 2nd April 2009, 14:41   #165
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Red face

Thanks guys for speaking your mind on this topic. Something more I wanted to add on some very pertinent points raised time and again in this forum and elsewhere in the print and visual media.

We have been made to think that imports are bad, it will kill local industry etc etc the usual protectionist crap. If not for imports or rather foreign competetion. Indian companies would not have improved, innovated ,found the resolve to fight it out with the foreign competitors. one really has to admire companies like Tata, Mahindra, Bajaj,Enfield they put Indian brains to work and were able to prove to the world that inspite of the fact that we were way behind in the technology race thanks to bureaucratic controls and skewered political ideology. WE ARE FAST CATCHING UP, the West is still trying to figure out the costing of the Tata Nano. Imagine if we were still driving around in Premier Padminis or Shakeelas and Ambassador mark X's or booking Bajaj Chetaks for our grandchildren. Those who did not anticipate the changing times and refused to change fell by the wayside. Premier Automobiles, Ideal Jawa. Hindustan Motors has managed to maybe just survive, but they are yet to develop a product of their own.

The other common refrain by foreign manufacturers like Mercedes/BMW/Audi the Indian market is too small, then they should'nt be here. India and China are the worlds two fastest growing automobile markets and they definetly need us!! Let these companies sell their cars in India at European prices, there will be more Mercs/Beemers and Audis than in the Middle East. Common guys common sense how many Merc E classes will they be able to sell at USD100,000 a piece in the US or for that matter for 80,000 Euros a piece in Germany. Our small market!! absolute organic manure they have been feeding us for years!! We suckers have been on this ride for a long long time!!

The other sob story, no foreign manufacturer will set up shop and survive in India if we dont put in place protectionist policies.Really !!the fact is that they need our vast markets and our buying power to survive, we are the last frontier. And more, they will gladly produce in India, where on earth are you going to find components of the finest quality at these prices. Where can they hire some of the finest brains in the technology business paying peanuts, even factory floor labour at ridiculously cheap rates. we are good at what we do, we are learning quality fast and we will be among the best. Where can they find consumers who pay silly money for any crap they produce!! To top it all don' they compete in the rest of the world, where its an absolute free for all.

For years we Indians have been taught or rather indoctrinated that we are poor, we are backward we do not deserve to enjoy the better things in life. Cars, aircondtioners,televisions the endless list of goodies classified as luxuries, taxed to kingdom come. it has only deprived the common man of the better things in life.And what has happened to the billions in taxes. the netas and the babus have been having a ball at our expense.

I am a strong believer in democracy and our fundamental rights, the freedom of expression is paramount and a free press is a must. But our motoring press the less said about it the better. an all expense paid new car launch foreign junket with all the freebies is all that is neccessary to elevate a taxi to a super luxury saloon. I'm told that Dacias(Logan) and Skodas are the cheapest cars in Europe, please correct me if I'm wrong, but every Indian motoring journal will till you that they are some of the finest luxury cars in the world and that we are fortunate to be able to buy them. Check out the recent months auto mags. The Honda Accord V6 at almost thirty lakhs (similiar car in the Middle East costs about 12 lakhs) is a supercar, mind blowing performance blah blah, this is what they write about a run of the mill family sedan which might have a fine engine but wallows like a whale and delicate as an eggshell. When will our motoring press stop supporting this crap and become more realistic.

We as hardcore automobile enthusiasts must enlighten the motoring public, what we need is an Indian Ralph Nader. am sure we can find one amongst us. ANY TAKERS!!

Last edited by Jaggu : 2nd April 2009 at 18:15. Reason: Readability, please use paragraph's and proper punctuations. Also preview the post before submitting to see how it looks. Thx
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