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Old 19th September 2011, 11:31   #241
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Default Re: Are Indians being ripped off ?

I am not sure why this discussion goes in circles. We are again just comparing the prices and trying to find out why there is a variance - is it to do with tax, customer demand etc. (forgetting the localization advantage due to cheap labour and distribution costs). Anyway, we can hereby conclude that we are being ripped off. What is the solution? How do we demand the manufacturers to price their cars fairly? How do we ask the government to tax lightly for day-to-day cars?
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Old 21st February 2012, 01:19   #242
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Default Are these cars worth it?

Hi all

I have posted in multiple threads in the T-BHP forum regarding upgrading from my current ride, a Toyota Corolla 2007 model.

I made up my mind multiple times, first on the XUV, then on the Fluence and each time I ended up backing off. Simple plain reason - I did not feel like paying such huge amounts for these cars!

A small background.

My first ride - An Opel Corsa Sail. Requirement at that point of time - A decent hatchback. Budget - Around 4 lakhs. Test drive many cars. Loved the Corsa because of its ride quality. Got is for close to 5 lakhs.

Second ride - A Toyota Corolla. 2007 model. Budget - around 8 lakhs. Corolla cost me close to 10.5. But it was worth it. All the safety features I could ask for. Impeccable track record of Toyota. Again, love at first side.

Now - Want to upgrade to a premium sedan. Budget - 17 - 20 lakhs. Options - Altis, Jetta, Laura and Fluence. The problem - All these belong to the same segment as my present drive.

Result - A confused me!

Why do these cars cost so much? The Verna, which is nothing but the global Hyundai Accent, sells at close to 10 - 12 lakhs in India. Isn't it ridiculous? When someone in the US pays close to 8 lakhs for the Hyundai Accent, why would we Indians, supposedly poorer, pay much higher for the same model? The top end Camry in India costs close to 28 lakhs. Come on you are kidding me! Does Toyota think we are fools? The top end Passat that retails in the USA for close to 30K dollars(Read 15 lakhs INR), sells at 30 lakhs in India!!!

What does this mean? Are we Indians supposed to be richer than the Americans to be shelling out twice the amount for the same car? Or don't we deserve to own decent cars at affordable prices?

All the automobile companies reading this thread - Don't think the Indian Automobile buyer is dumb enough to buy your cars at these ridiculous price points!

Summary - Happy to have bough the Corolla at 10.5 lakhs. Will drive it as long as some manufacturer wakes up from his stupid dream and prices his Sedans at a logically digestable price point.
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Old 21st February 2012, 01:54   #243
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Default Re: Are these cars worth it?

There are so many threads cribbing about the high prices in India. Its all because of the taxes. Its all on the government now to reduce them sometime or the other.

The Laura/Jetta really do feel a segment above the Corolla in terms of build quality, engine power, features, ride and handling. Though if only space matters then yes they are the same segment.
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Old 21st February 2012, 02:14   #244
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Default Re: Are these cars worth it?

Actually there is no point in blaming the car manufacturers for the exorbitant price they charge for cars in India vis--vis the prices of American market. It is the tax structure in this country that makes the consumer pay through the nose. If you search in Team-BHP, you'll get some clarity about the way our dear govt. imposes taxes on its people. Be it footwear or petrol, government ensures that the accruals in their coffers are unimpeded so that burgeoning wasteful expenditure is in so many myriad ways are counterbalanced by money squeezed out of the common man.

Now the question is why manufacturer silent and not reveal the government's wrongdoing? By protesting against the government tax structure they unwittingly need to expose their underbelly.

So, till such time we Indians grow mature or system in India undergoes a thorough revamp, we can expect to pay higher prices for products and seethe with anger.
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Old 21st February 2012, 02:30   #245
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Default Re: Are these cars worth it?

Taxation is the answer.

Essentially, the government has employed protectionist policies. They've made importing things into the country a costly affair, which for the most part is a good thing. It forces anyone who seriously wants to do numbers in India, setup operations in India. Manufacture locally. Increase localization of components. This also means many companies make India their export base, allowing them to tap the Indian market as well as other ones. Players who utilize Indian resources are favoured.

The net result is more employment. And with the size of our population, generating employment is key for economic growth. As much as the car enthusiast in us would want to see cars priced lower, it just doesn't make economic sense for the government to lower these taxes.

Whenever you feel this way, stop comparing car prices with the USA. And start comparing car prices with Singapore or Denmark.

Last edited by anekho : 21st February 2012 at 02:34.
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Old 21st February 2012, 03:01   #246
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Default Re: Are these cars worth it?

Well, I completely agree with akshay1234. Its all because of the taxes, which perhaps will see a further hike in March. Rumors are that all diesel cars will then come at an extra premium of Rs 80,000! So it seems your wait is going to be a little long, if you keep waiting for a manufacturer to wake up.

Also, with such a flexible budget why even look at the Hyundai Verna? Go for either a Skoda or a Volkswagen! The Laura, Jetta, Yeti, Superb and the Passat fit in your budget. All of them are great cars, it all depends on ones requirements now! Test drive all the above specified, and I am sure you'll be just as satisfied as you are with your Corolla.

P.S. - Skoda's aftersales service is slightly messy though.
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Old 21st February 2012, 03:57   #247
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Default Re: Are these cars worth it?

Fair enough, tax is the answer why CBU's are so insanely priced. That I can agree with. However, there are a lot of vehicles manufactured here and their prices are not exactly competetive when compared with the same car manufactured in other parts of the world. That is where car companies are taking advantage of us and raising prices unnecessarily.
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Old 21st February 2012, 07:07   #248
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A fair point of view. However, going by the sales charts lots of people are indeed spending their doubloons buying these cars at these prices! Fact is that we have never had it so good in terms of choice. This, coupled with prosperity and a desire for status causes many of our countrymen to shell out these prices and buy the car(s) of their choice. The car companies are profiteering and laughing all the way to their respective banks! Maybe you need to ease your predicament by buying pre-owned instead of new. I agree with the other statement made that cars like the Laura etc feel far more premium overall than the Altis and it's equivalents just the same as the Vento and Rapid feel a clear cut above the Verna and Fiesta.

Last edited by shankar.balan : 21st February 2012 at 07:08.
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Old 21st February 2012, 07:37   #249
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Red face Re: Are these cars worth it?

The horrendous pricing of some of the cars is in a way of the car manufacturers trying to recover their cost of investment. Another reason is the competition amongst the siblings brands of car makers. One way or the other the money still goes to their kitty.

If you see the cost of living in India has increased many folds which is why the car makers arent shying to price their products over the top. Earlier car was a luxury, today its a need. The aiding by the Govt in terms of taxation is another blow and thats a different ball game all together.
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Old 21st February 2012, 08:07   #250
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Default Re: Are these cars worth it?

The pricing in India is sure a let down. But sometimes I think that its good in a way. Yes don't kill me for saying that. I mean with such high prices are roads are jam packed and there are enough people ( and growing fast everyday) who can afford these cars. Till just 5 years ago to spot even a 3 series in Delhi used to feel good ( also note I used the word spot). Now we discard even the 5 series as just another car. The 7 is still a head turner. But what I am trying to say is that somehow a large number of people are able to buy these cars. If the pricing in our country would have been similar to USA and then I cannot even imagine the condition of our roads. Every other household would probably have a german car ( or would they, since then it would have lost its image value).

Coming to your "what car" query. Well a proper upgrade from your current ride this side of 20L will surely be a Laura and Jetta. Since you are driving a Petrol then you can consider the Laura TSI which is available with quite some discounts and would cost you under 15L OTR.
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Old 21st February 2012, 08:20   #251
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Default Re: Are these cars worth it?

@Ganeshram, looks like you want to discuss about the pricing structure of cars. Do check the following threads:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...on-policy.html (Automobile Taxation policy)
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ack-again.html (Car prices may set you back again)


There is also a separate thread on Road taxes.
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Old 21st February 2012, 09:07   #252
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Default Re: Are these cars worth it?

I do agree with the fact that taxation is the main reason for such insane pricing. But a Hyundai Verna, which is completely manufactured in India, should not cost so much. When they replaced the old Verna with the new fluidic, they bumped up the price. Ditto with the Fiesta. So is it only taxation?

Yesterday I was discussing with one of my friends and he got shocked when I told him that the top end Cruze costs more than 18 lakhs in Bangalore! Isn't that ridiculous?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abhinav667 View Post
Also, with such a flexible budget why even look at the Hyundai Verna? Go for either a Skoda or a Volkswagen! The Laura, Jetta, Yeti, Superb and the Passat fit in your budget. All of them are great cars, it all depends on ones requirements now! Test drive all the above specified, and I am sure you'll be just as satisfied as you are with your Corolla.

P.S. - Skoda's aftersales service is slightly messy though.
No, I am not looking at the Verna. I was just mentioning about it because of the price point. And Passat doesn't fit into my budget. I was at the dealership on Saturday and the Passat starts at close to 26 lakhs OTR Bangalore!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pganapathy View Post
Fair enough, tax is the answer why CBU's are so insanely priced. That I can agree with. However, there are a lot of vehicles manufactured here and their prices are not exactly competetive when compared with the same car manufactured in other parts of the world. That is where car companies are taking advantage of us and raising prices unnecessarily.
Exactly my point. CBUs being priced highly is understandable. But not the ones manufactured locally.
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Old 21st February 2012, 10:24   #253
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Default Re: Are these cars worth it?

Ganeshram, In addition to initial purchase costs, please also consider annual costs including insurance and service costs. While extended warranties cover most aspects, normally, the higher a car costs, the more the service costs. Additionally, the insurance is quite high and if you do not have an NCB to transfer from your current car, just the first year insurance costs can be exorbitant (almost 2 EMIs).

However, end of the day, the long term driving pleasure and ownership experience is the true value of the car. We have an Opel Astra (Petrol) in the family and the resale value is approx 50K. We are now going to spend almost half that amount on various repairs. Many have advised us against it but the riding comfort and overall experience for us is worth investing this amount to keep the car running for a few more years. Its not always a logical decision.
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Old 21st February 2012, 11:02   #254
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Default Re: Are these cars worth it?

Is taxation the only reason? I do see manufacturers taking a bit of an advantage here. We have too many classifications within the C-segment.
Internationally, in the C-segment, you have entry level C segment, regular, and luxury. The first group is where Honda City, Sunny etc. sits, next comes the likes of Jetta, Civic, Corolla etc., and Luxury part comprises of C-Class, 3, A4 etc.
In India, due to the strong VFM demands, manufacturers run sell multiple variants of same model side by side – Accent/Verna, Fiesta Classic/New Fiesta etc. And what it has done is to create an additional segment and push the prices up.

IMO, if the international classification was followed in India, City/Fiesta/Vento/Sunny etc. would have fit in the 6-9 lakhs bracket, Jetta/Fluence etc. in the 9-12 lakhs, and D-segment beginners like Passat, Accord would have sat in the current Jetta range (with OTR less than 20L)
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Old 21st February 2012, 11:02   #255
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Default Re: Are these cars worth it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ganeshram View Post
Yesterday I was discussing with one of my friends and he got shocked when I told him that the top end Cruze costs more than 18 lakhs in Bangalore! Isn't that ridiculous?
I think the Cruze pricing is ok, not too bad for the features it comes with. I am also looking at upgrading and I really liked the jetta. But 17.6L for the lowest version,i.e, trendline, that comes without ACC, folding mirrors, foglamps, USB port etc is just ridiculous to sya the least. On top of it the attitude of the sales folks at Volkswagen isn't going to help. Even though I like the jetta over the cruze I might end up buying the cruze because of the above 2 reasons.
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