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Old 29th August 2007, 00:09   #91
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
I'm sorry vivek I do not agree with you.
well, there can be many underlying reasons why cars are taxed highly. If I could prove any one of them, we could actually start a legal proceeding .

unfortunately we can only speculate. But the point i am trying to make is that if rest of the population paid taxes as well as working class does, we will see better infrastructure. in other words, if we take away automobile taxes away too, govt will have more shortage of funds.

babus and mentality support each other. tax payers think tax is not going to be used properly, so take away my share. babus like to take their own share. hence lower revenues and lower income for them. again, i don't think if their salary was increased they will stop sucking our blood. it again boils down to mentality. even if one has crores, he will look for more areas to illegally gather more money. e.g. naval officers selling our secrets, politicians making scams ( do you think they do not have enough money to sustain a life style they deserve?), IAS, Babus, teenagers in flashy cars kidnapping friends for money, looting goods in times of unrest. Don't you think everybody wants just 200% more than they deserve?

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Old 29th August 2007, 00:20   #92
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I don't understand -- we have mandated insurance in India too. And it covers the owner, driver, and third party as well.
Caliper, insurance is a BIG BIG BIG industry in US. you have insurance for everything. you have insurance for your medical expenses, your doctor has insurance for his practice (protection against suits), each shop has their insurance. and most of the rules are made up for and by the insurance industry.

you can ask a auto repair shop in india to try literally anything to your car to make it work. in US they will not even touch it, if their sequence of diagnosis does not permit it. reason: insurance. the moment they step outside the boundaries, they risk millions in lawsuits. I had to tie a piece of furniture myself in my van because for insurance purposes, the vendor will not do it for me.


NOW, to feed an industry that big, you need revenue. you need to pay for their infrastructure which is obviously not as cheap as india, and they need to protect themselves (read insurance ) against any changes, lawsuits etc, hence they can not survive on peanuts as we can do in india (same goes all services" medical, retail, auto.....)
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Old 29th August 2007, 00:21   #93
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Vivek, please do not use a broad brush on entire community of babus, politicians, naval officers and whoever. We have more than our share of rotten apples but that has no connection to higher rates of taxes on cars. Moreover if we use such arguments to justify high car prices, then we can go around in circles for a long time.

One of the reasons why cars are heavily taxed in India could be due to the urge to keep oil import bills at a tolerable level. If taxes are reduced in India then everyone will start buying cars and our oil bills imparity will skew our budget deficit levels. A country like US on other hand has no such limitation because they can print more of their currency to purchase more oil. In short they buy oil and sell paper.

Apart from that, the Govt has to take some strong measures to force car manufacturers to bring prices to parity with International level. Other countries where these manufacturers sell their cars have taxes too. lol

Last edited by lurker : 29th August 2007 at 00:23.
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Old 29th August 2007, 00:22   #94
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Yes, Indians are getting ripped off by the government. We pay taxes in various forms directly and indirectly for a car. What we get in return is:

a) Roads that would put the Mars surface to shame.
b) Moronic cops who cannot handle traffic and think that switching off the traffic lights helps.
c) Autos not regulated to stick to the left. They cruise on an open road back in the center at 35kmph.

If you thought cars are a rip off try bikes.

Bikers dont even have the option to buy a decent sports bike.
Harley pulls out as the tax is too high.
Yamaha brings the R1 in at 11.5L thanks to the Indian Govt.

We can ramble on how ever long we want to, our faithful Netas would still tax cars the way they do and we will still pay 1.75-2 times what our European or American friends would pay and that too with a higher average income/purchasing power.

I work for a US based software giant and I just about managed to pick up a Baleno.
My cousin who is 20 - working at a pharmacy shop buys a new 210Bhp Acura with his own money and funding.
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Old 29th August 2007, 00:23   #95
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Originally Posted by vivekiny2k View Post
unfortunately we can only speculate. But the point i am trying to make is that if rest of the population paid taxes as well as working class does, we will see better infrastructure. in other words, if we take away automobile taxes away too, govt will have more shortage of funds.
Who said that the rest of population doesn't pay taxes? They may not be paying direct taxes but they pay plenty in terms of indirect taxes like levies on everyday purchase. Yes, direct tax is paid by only 10% of the working class and most of them are salaried class, but still government makes enough money. They do not really need to levy high taxes on the so called luxury items like phones and TV's and cars.

The reason you don't see better infrastructure is not because government doesn't have funds but because it takes from one person to feed another person. for example, Mumbai generated nearly 35% of total taxes paid in India (most because it has stock market and corporate HQ of all companies) but all the money goes to center and mumbai gets only few hundred crores. This is not enough to build good infra/transport for all the businesses generating the taxes in the first place. Levying tax on autombiles does not do diddly squat to the roads just as 2% educational cess on petrol didn't do squat to the primary education.
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Old 29th August 2007, 00:33   #96
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Originally Posted by lurker View Post
One of the reasons why cars are heavily taxed in India could be due to the urge to keep oil import bills at a tolerable level. If taxes are reduced in India then everyone will start buying cars and our oil bills imparity will skew our budget deficit levels. A country like US on other hand has no such limitation because they can print more of their currency to purchase more oil. In short they buy oil and sell paper.
I agree that this could be one of the motivations for high taxes on cars. But if it is, the govt. could do much better to reduce the oil import bill:
1) It could lower taxes to subsidize hybrid cars like the Toyota Prius or alternative energy cars like the Reva.
2) It could create some decent roads. How can you stay in 5th gear if the roads are full of craters?
3) It could create decent public transport to reduce the need for individual cars.

Moreover, since the rupee is climbing these days with dollar reserves at all time highs, I think it is time to rethink this policy of high car taxes, since the RBI is already trying to prevent the rupee from gaining further.
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Old 29th August 2007, 00:41   #97
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Yes, direct tax is paid by only 10% of the working class and most of them are salaried class, but still government makes enough money. They do not really need to levy high taxes on the so called luxury items like phones and TV's and cars.
I am not qualified to debate that, but I stand by my point that the root cause behind all kind of corruption is still in indian mentality of trying to gather as much money as possible. by hook or by crook.

lurker i agree that there are exceptions in every field and you can't fight a generalized statement like mine with a case of exception, since....they are exceptions.

From what I have seen, majority still lies in the type i mentioned. The naval officer could be an exception in his field, but he still is a part of the generalized indian mentality.
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Old 29th August 2007, 00:46   #98
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Originally Posted by lurker View Post
One of the reasons why cars are heavily taxed in India could be due to the urge to keep oil import bills at a tolerable level. If taxes are reduced in India then everyone will start buying cars and our oil bills imparity will skew our budget deficit levels. A country like US on other hand has no such limitation because they can print more of their currency to purchase more oil. In short they buy oil and sell paper.
seriously, there is no such thinking behind these taxes. since govt has already had these for decades, it can't just take it off.

it's like raising prices of wheat to control consumption by the people.

about the Us dollars, well, I would say rest of the world foolishly invests in dollars. when the dollar is falling, I heard a news that india raised it's foreign reserves by another few percantage (in dollars). I am no economist, btu still i was like....why?
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Old 29th August 2007, 00:55   #99
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lurker i agree that there are exceptions in every field and you can't fight a generalized statement like mine with a case of exception, since....they are exceptions.
LoL, this is funny
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Old 29th August 2007, 01:23   #100
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Originally Posted by vivekiny2k View Post
seriously, there is no such thinking behind these taxes. since govt has already had these for decades, it can't just take it off.

it's like raising prices of wheat to control consumption by the people.

about the Us dollars, well, I would say rest of the world foolishly invests in dollars. when the dollar is falling, I heard a news that india raised it's foreign reserves by another few percantage (in dollars). I am no economist, btu still i was like....why?
How could you seriously make such a statement when our export percentage to GDP ratio is very low unlike China's.

You do know that we cannot pay in rupees to buy oil, but we need to pay in dollars. And how can countries like India earn dollars....'through export'.

Countries still invest in dollars due to the shackles imposed on world by Bretton-Woods, plz read up.

Quote:
From what I have seen, majority still lies in the type i mentioned. The naval officer could be an exception in his field, but he still is a part of the generalized indian mentality.
Plz try not to be so condescending towards *Indians* and *Indian mentality*.

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lurker i agree that there are exceptions in every field and you can't fight a generalized statement like mine with a case of exception, since....they are exceptions.
if your statement is indeed an exception, then I have no problem.
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Old 29th August 2007, 06:38   #101
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Originally Posted by vivekiny2k View Post
(now that you started the debate Vs other coutries, unwillingly I have to bring this angle).

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Plz try not to be so condescending towards *Indians* and *Indian mentality*.
see, i was unwilling, and unhappy to do it. I am also ashamed, to accept that majority of my countrymen indulge in activities that I don't think are good, or morally correct.

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How could you seriously make such a statement when our export percentage to GDP ratio is very low unlike China's.

I don't know how it connects to the topic i discussed, anyway.

I will read bretton.... may be something interesting that i was not aware of.
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Old 29th August 2007, 16:48   #102
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I don't know how it connects to the topic i discussed, anyway.
Since export earnings are few, and not every industry and economic activity is 'export-oriented' so the fuel that they consume, which is imported, is paid for by export earning of few that earn dollars. If this ratio, which is skewed as is, gets further skewed it will mean budget deficits, which ultimately lead to latin-american type situation.

The playground for every country in the world has been skewed thus.
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Old 29th August 2007, 21:31   #103
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What are u discussing guys ?
I bought my first car 5 years ago.Car prices were same at that time as of today may be even lesser (at least for santro, marutis etc. )
So, was that super ripping ?
Can somebody relate the INDIA- UK car prices 5 year ago ?
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Old 30th August 2007, 00:05   #104
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One thing I have noticed is the price of the top-of-the-line model in every segment shows some parity with prices charged outside India.

For instance Honda Accord V6/Skoda Superb 2.5 TDI L&K/Touareg V10 TDI (Even though CBU has 10 lakh difference between Indian & UK) shows same prices or lesser difference as compared to lower models.

Probably car manufacturers have a huge built-in premium with these models with which they can play around. hmm....
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Old 30th August 2007, 00:53   #105
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Originally Posted by breezydrive View Post
What are u discussing guys ?
I bought my first car 5 years ago.Car prices were same at that time as of today may be even lesser (at least for santro, marutis etc. )
So, was that super ripping ?
Can somebody relate the INDIA- UK car prices 5 year ago ?
It wasn't a rip -off as far as india market is concerned. As far as we are concerned we will continue to buy decent cars at a premium as far as the market goes due to the factors mentioned by the other tbhphians.
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