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Old 19th November 2009, 18:04   #1
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Thumbs up A case for a segment-straddler!- Manza with 2.2 DICOR

Dear Bhpians,
Here's an idea from my wishlist for Tata motors to chew on.
Here I go:
Extend the Manza's chassis.Strengthen it for a bigger engine.

Add on the 2.2 DICOR engine in a good state of tune (don't touch the BHP rating!).I'm sure if there was Palio 1.9 diesel , this is possible!

Put in tall gearing to appease the mile-munchers.Using a good gearbox is extremely important, no need to repeat what Hyundai did with the Getz CRDI (result was that there
was a performance difference with the Verna Diesel and the gearbox was not upto the engine's capabilities)

Make adjustments to the body to hold this additional weight , change the tyres appropriately. (Tata knows how to handle this kind of stuff)

Price the thing at around 8.5 lakhs OTR. (Again possible since the Sumo Grande retails for about the same with the same engine (of course 120 BHP and retuned ECU, but so what?)

That would be India's first equivalent of an Octavia vRS car.What say, BHPians.Tell me, tell me!Of course, add your fine ideas.Ayes and Nays there will be lots, but I do think this has potential! You know why , because the Manza has the interior space easily comparable to the C-Segment cars.
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Old 19th November 2009, 18:16   #2
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Even though its a good idea, I don't really think that its feasible. To extend a chassis, you've got to alter production a bit. It takes big $$. And with TATA motors in such a tight financial situation, its not really recommended.
Also, does a market exist to warrant a limited production run of a competent sporty sedan whose priority is to induce sportiness at the cost of FE?
But, I wish to see the day when TATA will introduce a V2 based 120-125 bhp powered Indica.
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Old 19th November 2009, 18:17   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rpmx1000 View Post
Dear Bhpians,
Extend the Manza's chassis.Strengthen it for a bigger engine.
I guess the Manza chassis is already an extended version of the Vista, so doing this would actually weaken it more.
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Old 19th November 2009, 18:20   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedaUsername View Post
Even though its a good idea, I don't really think that its feasible. To extend a chassis, you've got to alter production a bit. It takes big $$. And with TATA motors in such a tight financial situation, its not really recommended.
Also, does a market exist to warrant a limited production run of a competent sporty sedan whose priority is to induce sportiness at the cost of FE?
But, I wish to see the day when TATA will introduce a V2 based 120-125 bhp powered Indica.
Ok..Well..Don't extend the chassis , the manza is big enough as it is.

The market exists..The specs I , it will be a bit like a 90% Cruze..
Let me restate that..the market may well be created! Atleast it would give the Corollas , Civics and Optras some nervous days , provided the execution is
good enough..
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Old 19th November 2009, 21:07   #5
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Another powerful diesel sedan came to mind ... the Optra Magnum. The base Max diesel version comes in at well under 10L.

Is this car doing well enough for Tata to consider a Manza with 140 PS to compete with it ?

Cheers,

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Old 19th November 2009, 21:38   #6
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If it was that easy manufacturers like VW, Toyota and Honda would be running for cover by now scared of Tata. First they should sort out the quality issues in existing cars before thinking about car for enthusiasts.

With all these combinations how do you think they will be able to meet the Handling, steering and fun to drive of Octy RS? Skoda has upped the game already with introduction of Laura TSi with another awesome engine.

Last edited by .anshuman : 19th November 2009 at 21:41.
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Old 20th November 2009, 13:11   #7
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If wishes were horses . Tata is too busy to be bothered with an enthusiasts car, which wouldn't really sell anyways. And if they had the time, I'd rather they prepare a hot hatch rather than a performance sedan.

Related Thread (Tata to launch race/rally ready Indica)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rpmx1000 View Post
That would be India's first equivalent of an Octavia vRS car.
The vRS remains the enthusiasts car of choice, this side of 20 lakhs. Even though its discontinued, plenty of used options for 5 - 7 lakhs. It was the only true Indian performance car that was within the reach of regular petrolheads (not a 1 crore rupee Porsche if you know what I mean). Other enthusiast cars that haven't really sold : Palio 1.6 and if you include offroaders, the Classic.
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Old 23rd November 2009, 14:33   #8
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Thanks for all the replies. The case being made was ... why don't they do it?
There are two ways to look at it..I guess they might get the engineering and execution right.But I guess their marketing is just not up to it.I did sense some of the famous bias that many people have on the forum for Tata cars.They make the time , they have a potential winner on their hands.The whole point is..Is the Cruze not in that kind of a bracket? Of course, it is priced right but still out of reach of the masses.This product could be that.Atleast I hope someone takes a look at this thread . Or maybe they are waiting to see the response to the Linea T-jet.To me the T-jet is just Fiat's Indian answer to the ANHC.
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Old 23rd November 2009, 14:50   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rpmx1000 View Post
Thanks for all the replies. The case being made was ... why don't they do it?
The taxi market would not want it, that's why.

No one is going to take a TATA performance car seriously.
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Old 23rd November 2009, 15:29   #10
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1. Handling of Manza is not as good as an Enthusiast would like to be.
2. Interior quality fit and finish still not upto the mark, and use of poor quality materials is still there.
3. TATA=practicality. No one identifies TATA with performance oriented cars.
4. A hardcore petrol head will not switch to a diesel car. Petrols revv up to the moon, whereas diesels are more suited for everyday real world driving. Remember - Octavia vRS is a petrol!

Last edited by DCEite : 23rd November 2009 at 15:36.
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Old 23rd November 2009, 15:43   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DCEite View Post
1. Handling of Manza is not as good as an Enthusiast would like to be.
2. Interior quality fit and finish still not upto the mark, and use of poor quality materials is still there.
3. TATA=practicality. No one identifies TATA with performance oriented cars.
4. A hardcore petrol head will not switch to a diesel car. Petrols revv up to the moon, whereas diesels are more suited for everyday city driving. Remember - Octavia vRS is a petrol!
Now this is what I wanted to hear.Thanks DCEIte.
1. They definitely need to work on it. They have the resources and the tie-up.I mean, they _own_ Jaguar now.I don't think the tech boffins at Jag would desist from giving their inputs on what can be done to improve these.

2. I'm sure Tata's almost upto Maruti there.Yes but room-for-improvement is there.

3. They may have their reasons , but they need to work on that. The Palio GTX was still a palio.They can extend the brand.A product like that will only enhance the brand even if it sells in small numbers. The impact would be much more if they get it right. Imagine such a car coming out. The T-Bhpians would be as excited as little children when it does come out.That reaction is predictable since they mostly always are!

4.I disagree with this.You have to agree that remark is subjective , however valid.The diesels are torquey and though not meant for track, they are fun to drive for this very reason.I have loads of fun overtaking Fiestas and Swifts on the highways with my Indica turbo without them having a chance to react.Another argument that leads credence to this is that the Verna CRDI (as also the SX) sell quite well because of the 'performance diesel' tag.
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Old 23rd November 2009, 15:55   #12
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Since you are at it, why not propose to get Freelander 2.2 turbo engine with its gear box. More power and much more torque on tap.

Technology has evolved so much. If ever TATA brings a more powerful diesel sedan, that should have a small (say 1.6L)engine with higher power output. Not by putting a "big engine" by "Improving gearbox" and "Adjustments to body"

Last edited by Technocrat : 23rd November 2009 at 16:26. Reason: The post you had quoted has been edited/removed, thanks
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Old 23rd November 2009, 16:08   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteKnight View Post
Sicne you are at it, why not propose to get Freelander 2.2 turbo engine with its gear box. More power and much more torque on tap.

Technology has evolved so much. If ever TATA brings a more powerful diesel sedan, that should have a small (say 1.6L)engine with higher power output. Not by putting a "big engine" by "Improving gearbox" and "Adjustments to body"

Btw, why were you talking about Esteem?
More of what I wanted to hear! You just have (brought ideas to the table).
Would'nt that drive up the cost?

As to bringing a 1.6L type of engine, the point is they don't have to invest in engine development - Time to market is much much more then - I'm sure it also adds to the cost.I don't think they have the stuff yet to bring out gems like the TSI engines or the BlueXXXX from Germany's big three.Those are like
the pinnacles of engineering in engine technology today.Correct me if I'm wrong.India has seen stuff like a diesel bike.This would not be disproportionate.

Last edited by Technocrat : 23rd November 2009 at 16:27. Reason: The post you had quoted has been edited, thanks
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