Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


View Poll Results: what can be done to fiat?
can give them another chance 35 23.81%
should be ousted from indian automobile industry henceforth 11 7.48%
should put a stay to streamline A.S.S before launching other variants 101 68.71%
Voters: 147. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 21st November 2009, 17:00   #16
BANNED
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Nasik
Posts: 105
Thanked: 4 Times
Default

Unfair to criticize Fiat / tata.
Its their new outing after they have restructured thier operations in europe.
The fact is they are providing value by selling latest quality build cars to Indian customers compared to korean and others.
So they had to cut initialy to gain foothold.
Indian customers are more price consious and thats success for Suzuki. Fiat is trying to emulate them , they will learn from their mistakes.
YVES is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st November 2009, 17:09   #17
Team-BHP Support
 
.anshuman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Good-Gaon
Posts: 7,714
Thanked: 9,025 Times
Default

Most of the times its the underconfident service center owners who dont want to block their money by stocking lesser used parts. Its worth to switch the such Service centers.
.anshuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st November 2009, 17:11   #18
BHPian
 
WhiteKnight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 828
Thanked: 73 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by YVES View Post
Fiat is trying to emulate them , they will learn from their mistakes.
A company with over 100 years of history still learning basics of business? Quite a long learning curve

One simple strategy Fiat could implement- Make spares easily available over the counter. There are many competent private garages which would do the job.
WhiteKnight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st November 2009, 17:33   #19
BHPian
 
ece2k2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Coimbatore
Posts: 476
Thanked: 253 Times
Default

I never understood the sales/support strategy of Fiat from its Uno days. Despite the fact that everyone compelled me not to buy Fiat, I bought one for me (new look Siena petrol) and was very happy with it - as a product. But, after seeing the pathetic situation I was made to undergo during each service center visit, I sold it off. Infact, the service centers that I visited (Green tracks, Manipal Motors & Prerana) did more bad than good to my car on every occasion.

After selling my car, I sent a long email to Mangesh during Feb 2008 explaining the goof-ups made by the Tata service centers (with adequate proof) and asked for an explanation for the time/money spent to fix the service center induced issues during my Siena ownership. Mangesh did call me promptly and I clearly told him that I am not going to buy another Fiat unless Fiat has exclusive service centers. Even today, I am persuading as many people as possible from buying a Fiat since I know the level of service you will get in Tata service centers for Fiat cars. Fiat cars are never bad and their service level has never been good either. It is nearly impossible to change the attitude of Tata service centers - be it mechanics, service advisers or managers.

So, atleast people who expect a near perfect ownership experience should try to avoid a Fiat product. If you are that kind and end up buying one like myself, then you are sure to get haunted by their after sales service issues. If possible, every prospective Fiat customer should stop buying a Fiat car and instead should demand the Fiat India management an exclusive service center for them to purchase a Fiat!

Last edited by ece2k2 : 21st November 2009 at 17:43.
ece2k2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st November 2009, 17:41   #20
Senior - BHPian
 
aaggoswami's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Vadodara
Posts: 4,675
Thanked: 1,427 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by YVES View Post
Unfair to criticize Fiat / tata.
Its their new outing after they have restructured their operations in Europe.
The fact is they are providing value by selling latest quality build cars to Indian customers compared to korean and others.
So they had to cut initialy to gain foothold.
Indian customers are more price consious and thats success for Suzuki. Fiat is trying to emulate them , they will learn from their mistakes.
The edge in build quality is now lost. GP and Linea, both are not having good interiors. Have a look at GP's interior plastic and you will know. Again the edge in safety is not very much as others are in the same ballpark. They have an edge in ride and handling combination and this is without doubt. But others are delivering better value than what Fiat could offer. Manza, Dzire are what one can call value. Manza specially has changed the value market. Cedia is one can call value. Optra magnum diesel is what we can call value.

About price concious market, its generally true, but not true for Suzuki. Hyundai I10 and i20 are selling well where as vista and GP are not selling well. This was about small car market. Now in sedans, Linea is selling way lower than G3HC which is surely overpriced.

Fiat has opted for an easier way out which is not good for Fiat customers. Any explanation is not sufficient to justify Fiat's lack of independent network IMHO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
Most of the times its the underconfident service center owners who dont want to block their money by stocking lesser used parts. Its worth to switch the such Service centers.
Who is suffering at the end of the day ? And its not that Linea ( atleast ) is selling in low numbers. Linea is infact doing reasonable numbers.
aaggoswami is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st November 2009, 18:14   #21
Senior - BHPian
 
clevermax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Tvm/Amsterdam
Posts: 1,601
Thanked: 404 Times
Default

Another yummy thread for team-bhp! I can imagine all those Fiat flaming coming up in this topic of spares.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KITE RUNNER View Post
I think the customer need to be blamed for buying FIAT cars, even after hearing about all these nightmares.
Oh yes. Those are brainless people who buy Fiat cars even after hearing about all those horrible A.S.S. stories.


I had to replace few important parts in my retro Palio during the recent services.

1) Clutch MC
2) Clutch SC
3) Front suspension struts
4) Head Gasket

These were readily available in the service center. (Both TVS & Kulathunkal)

Some months back, I replaced the Headlamp, I had to place an order and wait for a week or so, but finally it came.

My friend's Petra had an accident recently, a Wipro bus banged his car from the side, and the front door was smashed. The spare door was available at Green Tracks, Bangalore.

I had to replace the RH ORVM one year back, and it was also available in Green Tracks, Blr.

Well, these are my experiences and I'd say it is not bad, though not excellent. May be I'll also start worrying about spares if some hard to procure part fails in my Palio.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
The edge in build quality is now lost. GP and Linea, both are not having good interiors. Have a look at GP's interior plastic and you will know.
I agree. But you sound like saying "Build quality = Plastics quality". It goes a long way from mere plastic quality.


Quote:
Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
Most of the times its the underconfident service center owners who dont want to block their money by stocking lesser used parts. Its worth to switch the such Service centers.
I tend to agree with this. TATA-Fiat service guys aren't sure of stocking a lot of spare parts.

PS:- Crank sensor failed in my Palio on a Sunday and I called Fiat-First, got it replaced the same day evening. (Read my post in Fiat-First thread - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post1584188 (Fiat announces "Fiat First" - A Customer Care program))

Last edited by clevermax : 21st November 2009 at 18:31.
clevermax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st November 2009, 18:17   #22
Senior - BHPian
 
beejay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: The Nilgiris
Posts: 1,916
Thanked: 109 Times
Default

OT. Where is this Green Tracks in Bangalore?
beejay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st November 2009, 18:24   #23
Senior - BHPian
 
clevermax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Tvm/Amsterdam
Posts: 1,601
Thanked: 404 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by beejay View Post
OT. Where is this Green Tracks in Bangalore?
It was near Silk Board fly-over junction when I left Bangalore one year back.
clevermax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st November 2009, 18:41   #24
Senior - BHPian
 
aaggoswami's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Vadodara
Posts: 4,675
Thanked: 1,427 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by clevermax View Post
I agree. But you sound like saying "Build quality = Plastics quality". It goes a long way from mere plastic quality.
There was a time when I used to mention similar words that build quality is a general term and for me the definitions are :
1) Chassis stiffness, suspension
2) Interior fit and finish.

Now in both 1 and 2, Fiat cars are not having a huge edge the way they had in Palio and Siena days. When Siena came, it was quite easy to say that it was quite safer as compared to other rivals like Accent and Esteem, though how much safe cannot be easily determined by us.

Currently, cars like Swift, Ritz, I10, I20, Jazz, Fabia are very close to Fiat GP and Linea as far as 1 and 2 mentioned above are concerned. Finally competition has caught with Fiat in both the paramenters and as far as interior fit and finish goes, its Fiat that has lost the edge.

So no significant advantage in most of the areas + not so good i.e questionable A. S & S. means GP and Linea are not best value propositions. Here again I am looking at the cars as a complete package where in apart from car itself I consider service centers, spare parts and their availability, etc.
So IMHO, as a complete package, Fiat cars are not good real VFM packages when we compare it with others.
The only edge they have is ride and handling, but this again not a very significant advantage, but enough to differentiate.
aaggoswami is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st November 2009, 19:22   #25
Senior - BHPian
 
MileCruncher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 3,992
Thanked: 356 Times
Default

It somehow befuddles me on the amount of members who wait to pounce and start FIAT bashing at every given instance. And the irony of the whole thing is that more than half the people who indulge in this FIAT bashing have never had a FIAT product in their life time. I wonder why we don't see the similar number of threads on TATA / M&M whose build quality is definitely one grade lower than FIAT.

@geeash: As already notified your problem seems to be more with the service center than the company. I do agree at Concorde is one of the worst TATA dealers even though they are a TATA - Jardine JV and actually that is one of the major reason for the arrogant behaviour of the staff May be this should help.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...dit-india.html

I would suggest finding another service center.
MileCruncher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st November 2009, 19:30   #26
BHPian
 
sushanthr77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Mangalore / DXB
Posts: 280
Thanked: 4 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
There was a time when I used to mention similar words that build quality is a general term and for me the definitions are :
1) Chassis stiffness, suspension
2) Interior fit and finish.
Dear aaggoswami, if everybody came up with their own definitions for words, then discussions are pointless!

What does this Chassis Stiffness mean? Does it mean it is really really strong? And how do you measure this? Simply by riding on bad roads or tracks? How does a Stiff Chassis equate to additional safety? What about the crumple zone? Can you distinguish a car with a relatively weaker chassis and a hard suspension setup and a car with relatively stronger chassis with a soft suspension setup?

How come the exterior is not a parameter for build quality? Is the insulation used for sound damping also ignored? What about the underbody? Isn't the engine a part of the car?

What about all the other components that make up a car?

Last edited by sushanthr77 : 21st November 2009 at 19:34.
sushanthr77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st November 2009, 19:39   #27
Senior - BHPian
 
finneyp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 2,619
Thanked: 160 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
1) Chassis stiffness, suspension
2) Interior fit and finish.

Now in both 1 and 2, Fiat cars are not having a huge edge the way they had in Palio and Siena days. When Siena came, it was quite easy to say that it was quite safer as compared to other rivals like Accent and Esteem, though how much safe cannot be easily determined by us.

Currently, cars like Swift, Ritz, I10, I20, Jazz, Fabia are very close to Fiat GP and Linea as far as 1 and 2 mentioned above are concerned. Finally competition has caught with Fiat in both the paramenters and as far as interior fit and finish goes, its Fiat that has lost the edge.
First, please get the definition of Build quality right!
Here is a definition from Whatcar.com
Quote:
Build quality - The standard of a car's construction. Generally, well built cars look and feel very solid and use high-grade materials throughout. Build quality can also be judged from the neatness and close fit of body panels and the regularity of the gaps between them. The tighter and more regular, the better.
Source: Car Glossary - Build quality - What Car?
So please don't keep saying Plastic quality is Build quality, it just one of the parameters!

And from the list of cars you've quoted, only i20, Jazz & Fabia is comparable to the Build quality of Linea / GP.
Also, all three are priced more than G Punto.
Quote:
So IMHO, as a complete package, Fiat cars are not good real VFM packages when we compare it with others.
Maybe for you, but not for everyone!
For me, Fiat cars still offer a complete package, the service may not good enough, but I get more for the bucks and I enjoy driving their cars!
And, that is the most important factor for me!

Last edited by finneyp : 21st November 2009 at 19:45.
finneyp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st November 2009, 19:48   #28
Senior - BHPian
 
kiku007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 1,610
Thanked: 1,223 Times
Default

Can we have something like the Bank or Insurance Ombudsman? How nice it will be! FIAT should definetly concentrate on improving conditions at the Dealers and Service Centres. More than anything else, it's the attitude that needs to be changed.

Though I pay through my nose (read it as paying 17K for replacing Ikon's radiator, thermo sensor something etc), I have waited only once for a spare part for a day which was to come from Bosch. But eventually they sourced it from another dealer IIRC.
kiku007 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 21st November 2009, 19:55   #29
BHPian
 
FastLove's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: MUMBAI
Posts: 416
Thanked: 99 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by geeash View Post




They have put deisel engine oil in my petrol car
!!
Hey Ashwin, Thats Bad! Now, was it during a top-up? and what happened next? Did they change the oil?
FastLove is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st November 2009, 20:07   #30
BHPian
 
arishi1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Thane - Mumbai
Posts: 291
Thanked: 12 Times
Default

@ MileCruncher, I have a GP that I bought in Sept. 2009, My Dad owned an UNO which he recently replaced with Optra, my brother owned a Palio and replaced it with ANHC, the reason I bought a GP was I love FIAT cars, IMHO they are the best cars (as in Value for money) in the market right now, but the only reason Palio failed and GP & Linea will fail is because of A.S.S., agreed build quality is an issue, but then thats there in almost all the manufacturers in India. Agreed to the view, FIAT recently came out from the red globally, but then if they can not service the cars they make, its going to be tough to convince people to buy those. IMHO Mr. Kapoor instead on creating events line FIAT DIESEL INDIA Drive should rather spend on getting the A.S.S. network fixed, where service centers have parts and can get new parts in few days and not months.
My Father and My brother decided against going for another FIAT because of the A.S.S. I got for my GP. Some lunatic bus driver banged my car on the third day of my ownership and it took me almost 2 months to get the brand new car fixed; and I am very sure there will be many more buyers who though liked the FIAT cars choose against buying them because of these very logic. Lets face it the most critical challenge that FIAT has right now is to get the A.S.S. in line with other players in the market. without which I am pretty sure FIAT will wind off from India in 2 years at the most.
arishi1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tata Xenon – the million buck, ahem, truck! kaushikz Long-Term Ownership Reviews 128 8th September 2014 12:08
Fiat India : How much longer before they shut down? GTO The Indian Car Scene 378 12th February 2009 13:35
COPS making a quick buck by picking vehicles parked in parking area motorheadinc Street Experiences 13 4th August 2008 17:24
ICICI Lombard trying to make a quick buck again nirmalts Indian Car Loans & Insurance 30 27th August 2007 16:38
First/Best bang for the buck Upgrade for a Skoda 1.8TPI nanu28 Modifications & Accessories 11 4th November 2005 17:19


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 18:35.

Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks