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Old 13th August 2005, 12:46   #31
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Originally Posted by man23ish
skumar,

Can you find out the exact reasons why your wife's driving school recommends the Innova.. What exactly is the problem with the Safari??

Manish
Maintainance is a big issue with Safari. Yesterday, one of friend in Boston mentioned that he owned Safari for two years in India and strongly recommended to stay away from it. He said "It is a peace of junk". I am setteling for Innova for sure as I have heard many -ve aspects about Safari from its original owners.

-SKumar
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Old 13th August 2005, 17:51   #32
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Originally Posted by skumarit
Maintainance is a big issue with Safari. -SKumar
Hey skumarit..

Can you find out what kind of maintenance is a big issue. If it is engine maintenance that we are talking about.. I know that the 407 engine is a brute and the service intervals on the 407 trucks is at 10,000 km.. And the CRDI (DICOR) technology will ensure that it stays that way for the Safari.. (IMHO)... I believe that Safari has improved quite a bit since its first launch..

But if it is some other kind of maintenance than i am not sure what you are talking about...

Veyron1 buddy, where are you.. I am sure the forum would like to hear your thoughts on the old Safari..

Other Safari owners, drivers?? Opinions on maintenance please..
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Old 13th August 2005, 20:48   #33
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here i am, manish....

Quote:
Maintainance is a big issue with Safari.
er...skumar, i don't think any of your buddies are speaking the truth. ask them specifically what they incurred as maintenance expenses for their safari. either they had bought thoroughly roughed up secondhand safaris, or they had pre-2000 models. trust me, the safari doesn't cough up any sort of "expensive" maintenance at all.

in fact, in the little time that i have had my safari, i have found it to be a comfortable, and reliable performer. my car has NEVER had a breakdown, given me 9-11 kmpl consistently with a/c, and used to be able to touch the 160 kmph mark, given sufficient amount of room... it was a 4x4, and a helluva suv.

the only maintenence costs incurred by me, other than the routine oil-changes and services, was a fuel-pump service (a mico unit) at 50,000 kms (which wasn't required, but i like to keep my machine's internals at 100% efficiency- and in pristine condition), which cost me about 7500 bucks....

trust me, skumar- the safari is not that expensive to own.... just take this as an example- the front suspension lower arm of the safari costs 3600 bucks (last time i checked)- whereas the lower arm of a OHC costs 5200 bucks.... and these prices are about a year old...i haven't checked the latest prices, though. but the one thing i know for sure is- the safari had cheaper spares than the qualis, and many sedans; and i also know this for sure- the safari's spares WILL be cheaper than the innova's....

so, although the pre-2000 models were a bit of a pain to own, the newer safaris are all the more better. and the one thing that i have noticed about most of the used safaris are that they are handled roughly, and never cared for as much a qualis, or even a bolero- because, believe it or not, most of the safari owners change their cars quite often, and they don't bother with the maintenance very much- again, these are just my observations....

so skumar- i don't think you are asking the right people for opinions on the safari- try getting your hands on someone who is a current owner, uses it regularly, and has a post-2000 model. and beleieve me- the feedback you get might actually surprise you.... all i can say is, just do a thorough check-up before jumping into any conclusions....
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Old 13th August 2005, 21:07   #34
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man23ish and veyron1: Thanks for the comments, now you guys made it challenging to decide. The feedback I got was from original owners on the old Safari. DICOR might be much better than the old one. There is one pattern I notice is that Safari owners are selling them in 2-3 year, why? Safari/Innova I buy will be for long-term for me. Other problem that they mentioned is about waiting for a part from Tata.

I am used to Honda quality, comfort, reliabality. I want to buy Indian if it can deliver the same as Japanese cars. At this stage, I plan on returning to India next week, test drive both of them, ask around and then make a final decision.

-SKumar
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Old 13th August 2005, 21:22   #35
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Originally Posted by veyron1
here i am, manish....
er...skumar, i don't think any of your buddies are speaking the truth..
May be you are right on my buddies, but what do think of this?
Innova
http://www.mouthshut.com/product-rev...925048188.html
79% owners recommend

Safari
http://www.mouthshut.com/product-rev...925000013.html
59% owners recommend

Again, DICOR might a complete different animal all together. Can someone educate me on DICOR vs old Safari? Thanks.

I just went through the same process to decide b/w Honda Activa vs. Kinetic Nova. Even though I am big fan of Honda, I went with Nova just based on the product-product comparision. I need a compelling DICOR story to shellout 14lakhs. I am not completly sold on Innova either!.

Anything else to consider apart from Safari, Innova, Scorpio?.

-SKumar
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Old 13th August 2005, 21:30   #36
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There is one pattern I notice is that Safari owners are selling them in 2-3 year, why?
like i said, skumar- most of the safari owners (that i have seen) have wads of cash, and have multiple cars. safaris are usually their choice for long trips, etc.

i have seen people, who own mercs and beemers alongwith safaris.... the reason that some of them sell it off within a short period is that they usually try to suck the living daylights out of the car. and as we all know, the safari (old) was underpowered, and it was not much fun to drive around in heavy traffic. therefore, most owners just buy them to "show off", and then sell it off later....

which is why, finding a clean and properly maintained used safari is a herculean task.....

and this might seem odd- this is for those of you who know the merchant banking firm DSP Merryl Lynch; to my surprise, i found that they had safaris by the dozens, and that the tatas used to be their favourite set of wheels- of course, most were chauffeur driven....but still...i mean, they also have mercs, beemers, accords, etc., but they still used to prefer the tata....
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Old 13th August 2005, 21:47   #37
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May be you are right on my buddies, but what do think of this?
see, buddy...every product has it's pros and cons... all i'm trying to say is- the safari is not at all a bad car, and definitely not as much as people are making it out to be...

but it's important to get your priorities straight while going in for a purchase- because if not, you are bound to find some flaw or the other in the car, and you shall be unhappy in the future.

so, here goes-

if you want a big family car that can seat eight people in reasonable comfort, offers decent driveability, fuel efficiency,refinement and excellent interiors, then it is the innova for you.

if you want a macho suv that you intend to take off-road once in a while, has extremely comfortable seats, makes your presence felt in a crowd, and has that "wow" factor, then it is the safari for you.

or, if you want a practical semi-suv that would abide to most of your biddings, then you could also try the tucson, but it's also more expensive....but mind you, even that isn't a seven seater...
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Old 14th August 2005, 06:04   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by veyron1
... it's important to get your priorities straight
Here is my situation: I think I need Innova, but I guess I want Safari. Hopefuly, this dilema will be resolved after test drives.

-SKumar
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Old 14th August 2005, 09:13   #39
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Originally Posted by skumarit
Here is my situation: I think I need Innova, but I guess I want Safari.
Hehehehehehehe..........I was torn between practicality and appeal just as you were. The difference was that I was sold on the Safari even before the new model came out - it just had to have more power than the current model for me to say 'I do'. That it does, though the turbo lag is annoying - something I'll deal with later.

For the record, I had put down a deposit of Rs.50,000/- for the Tucson before it was launched, took it back and put it on an Innova when I found the Tucson to be overpriced, and finally decided on the Safari after a very brief test drive. I even thought in terms of a Scorpio for a brief (VERY brief) moment in between.

Let me put it this way - I DONT want to be driving a van around, I would like to participate in the Raid de Himalay next year, I do go on long distance drives especially off the beaten track and I DO have a very bad back.

I dont mind living with some cheap plastics, I dont mind having to spend some time, effort and money to get rid of that turbo lag and I dont mind living with a vehicle that I can work on and improve.

On the other hand, if you buy a Toyota all you have to do is get in and drive. It doesnt require time, effort or money from you to improve it and moreover doing so will be very expensive and void your warranty. Its very reliable, but in a very boring sort of way.

At the end of the day, the Safari won on APPEAL - for me. However, the extra power , phenomenal ride comfort and the "I own the road" confidence that it inspires did help me make up my mind pretty fast. Now I know how the KSRTC Volvo driver feels...
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Old 15th August 2005, 01:13   #40
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I dont mind living with some cheap plastics, I dont mind having to spend some time, effort and money to get rid of that turbo lag and I dont mind living with a vehicle that I can work on and improve.
Ditto. But not when I am spending a million rupees.

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Old 15th August 2005, 01:17   #41
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Originally Posted by GTO
Ditto. But not when I am spending a million rupees.

GTO
To each his own... Thats the one thing I didnt like about the Hyundai - there wasnt much you could do with it or on it, and anything you may have wanted to do would've voided the 4 year warranty...I was beginning to lose interest.

Besides, I want the Safari to tour India and take part in the Raid de Himalaya.
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Old 15th August 2005, 19:20   #42
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Hi,

>I DO have a very bad back.

The forte of Safari is the ride it offers, the spacious rear seat and the very comfortable front seats.

After owning a 1998 Safari (registered a year later in 1999) for six years and 76000 kms, I have nothing bad to say about the Safari. It never broke down and the only problem area was the front suspension bushes. I really think the newer models would have had lesser problems.

It used to give between 11 and 12 kms with 5 people and their luggage on board with AC. Alone with AC I have eked out 13.5kpl with careful driving.

But I replaced it with an Innova diesel V just a month back. Wanted more seats (the jump seats in the Safari are really not for adults) and the Innova appealed to the family.

But the comfort of the seats and the ride are definitely inferior to the Safari.

Rajesh
Alleppey, Kerala
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Old 15th August 2005, 20:17   #43
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Quote:

The forte of Safari is the ride it offers, the spacious rear seat and the very comfortable front seats.
Absolutely agree. The Safari and the Sierra Turbo offer ride quality that is yet unmatched my any Indian cars. Butttttttttttttttttt, the same cant be said about the absolutely disastrous handling capabilities.

To me - any car that performs well automatically looks good. Its a raw kind of performance oriented appeal. By performance, it does not mean sub 10 second 0 - 100 figures, but doing what the vehicle is supposed to do with a level of reliability.

In that sense, I would choose the Innova over the Safari and Scorpio - different segments be damned. The depth of engineering by Toyota is unmatched by the local boys. It is a superb machine with a sedan like driving style, fabulous power plants, room for the entire family and more, and a high level of all-roundedness.

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Old 2nd September 2005, 13:12   #44
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city guys go for scorpio, countryside go for innova and people with a flair for a lorry go for safari
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Old 2nd September 2005, 13:19   #45
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It is perennial head ache for Toyota. It makes very reliable but, at the same time, boring cars. No wonder, people fall for Safari even if it may not be exactly as refined as Innova.
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