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Old 26th April 2007, 18:05   #121
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Everybody seems to be busy justifying their own vehicles.....and forgotten about the future of these vehicles. As everybody knows there is a new engine which is coming both in Safari & Scorpio i.e., the 2.2 ltr 140 Bhp. This new engines will be lighter than the present engines.

Can anybody put some light, if the engine weight comes down, will the Toppling of the vehicle increases or decreases?

As the new engines will be powered with 140Bhp, the speed will be increased, & people tend to drive faster than the present........

Time for all of us to think on techinicals.....

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Deepak
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Old 26th April 2007, 18:16   #122
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I dont know what is the fight about, I have had a scorpio and yes it can go upto 150 KMPH and can sustain there for a while but who in their right minds would want to do that, these are SUV's and their CG is high and hence cannot be compared to a skoda or maybe a Verna which cooly does 180 and if you know that about your car/SUV then you dont need to go that fast and you dont need to turn turtle either. Btw I have had both Scorpio and Safari and I find that the scorpio is much better in terms of speed, acceleration, nimbleness and handling than the safari the only good thing about safari is that it sticks to the road but then Elephants always do dont they and that too it is a white elephant, I just dont know when the electricals are going to conk off only recently I had to take it for a while and the AC conked off when the temp. was close to 42 *C outside, its like it has one niggle or the other. On the highway's both are capable of doing 145-150 its just that Safari is quicker off the blocks and also when you slow down in the traffic and have to go back to speed.
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Old 26th April 2007, 18:18   #123
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I am sorry I meant the Scorpio is quiker off the blocks and not the Safari bieng the elephant that it is it needs a while for it to get up.
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Old 26th April 2007, 20:23   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
In the Autocar test, neither spun around, neither overturned. Thats because they did not do the elk test.
Thats besides the fact that these cheapo mags probably "borrowed" the vehicles for a day or two from the company. Fat chance of them doing the elk test.. whose gonna pay for the repairs?
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Old 26th April 2007, 20:47   #125
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Originally Posted by Monster_BHP View Post
Yah i was of the same opinion till i found out the hard way.. I was driving my Skoda from B'lore when a family in a Scorpio gave me a run for my money.. More over he was fully loaded.. Pretty decent, but i guess thats the reason for turning turtle..
Hmm that is interesting, But somehow I still can't believe.
Well Scorpio is a decent looking car, but Safari always rules my Heart. The only SUV which I can look at buying as of now. I Love its road presence, Innova, well it is more like sitting in a car.
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Old 27th April 2007, 04:28   #126
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ho!hum!
this thread has been done to death.
lets all just agree that each of these cars has its takers.in the past and in the present.most likely in the immediate future too.
in the end it boils down to what a person wants.
let this comparison rest in peace!
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Old 28th April 2007, 11:40   #127
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I agree with the doctor
Lets stop playing TOPPLE-TOPPLE

-POGU
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Old 28th April 2007, 14:04   #128
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Thanks Pogu, Having said that - any further news on the Safari 2.2 or the Scorpio 2.2?? Someone did mention May as the expected launch for the Scorpio. Wonder when the Safari comes?
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Old 28th April 2007, 15:20   #129
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Ended up talking to a Mahindra guy and according to him Scorpio 2.2 will be out only at the end of the year unless offcourse Safari 2.2 arrives before that.
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Old 28th April 2007, 22:59   #130
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This is a forum whats wrong with discussion ? I am sure everything about every car subject has been discussed somewhere on the forum ?

On the one hand you claim you are not a Safari nuthugger yet you cannot accept a test done by an automag which found flaws you claim do not exist in the Safari (or are worse in the Scorpio). You upset the Safari performed worse than the Scorpio ?

My belief is backed by the test in the automag, whats your opinion based on ? How many comparative cone tests you done in both vehicles ? I have driven both (non Dicor Safari and the TD Scorpio) and I could find flaws in both vehicles but that doe snot mean I pull the blinkers over my eyes when it comes to accepting the findings of tests.

Whatever next ? No hole in the ozone layer because you have not seen it ?



Why would it irritate me, I do not own either of the vehicles but have driven them. You guys cannot back anything up with independent tests.

It is a fact that the Merc A class flaws were tested and the instability quite clearly demonstrated with a simple cone test. Car magazines in the UK and a few consumer shows clearly demonstrated the stability problems using a cone test.
You are quoting magazines and we are talking from driving both cars extensively and then deciding to buy the Safari.
In my case, I drove a Safari for a lakh and a half before i sold it and bought a DICOR, and that was after giving the new Scorpio a really good chance to redeem itself.

And Steer, you crack me up man.(Why dig up the grave? Go in peace, brother - if you wish to believe that the Scorpio handles better, please yourself.)
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Old 13th September 2007, 10:37   #131
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Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
The safari 3.0 comes into its own on the highway... its ridiculously tall geared which is given since the engine itself redlines at 3000 rpm with turbo surge coming only after 1500 rpm, hence 1500 rpm left to play with which is a very narrow powerband to play with considering modern day diesel engines. It isnt as bad as it sounds, although a pain in the city, the highways are safari's natural territory, with 100 kph coming in at around 1800 rpm!! (the power starts to come @ around 2000 rpm in modern day diesel while the truck is already upto 100 kph) there's plenty of grunt left to overtake and maintain speeds. With the turbo fully spooled up, engine operating at top torque rpm its a bliss, before I forget 140 kph comes at 2400 rpm!!! It can cruise at highspeeds all day without a fuss with just a flex of the right foot needed to overtake lesser mortals.
In city however its anentirely different story, making rapid progress would want lots of gear changes, 5th gear at anything below 70-80 kph and engine is a dead meat. Even then the 3rd and 4th gear are pretty good, although you wont get brisk progress if you put your foot down like in an Innova or a scorpio it will still keep up with the traffic. To make brisk progress you have to drop a gear so that rpm comes b/w 1500 - 2000.
Wow, good observations, thanks for putting this together, added to my knowledge.
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Old 14th September 2007, 14:27   #132
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Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
T the highways are safari's natural territory, with 100 kph coming in at around 1800 rpm!! (the power starts to come @ around 2000 rpm in modern day diesel while the truck is already upto 100 kph)

With all due respects , what is so unique in safari about 100 kmph at 1800 rpm in a diesel engine ?

The Scorpio also has similar numbers and numbers it will be similar for all TCed , diesels of similar capacity / vintage give or take a 100 rpm.

This long legged nature of diesel engines is not brand specific IMO and has more to do with technology used.
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Old 14th September 2007, 15:02   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by w 12 View Post
With all due respects , what is so unique in safari about 100 kmph at 1800 rpm in a diesel engine ?

The Scorpio also has similar numbers and numbers it will be similar for all TCed , diesels of similar capacity / vintage give or take a 100 rpm.

This long legged nature of diesel engines is not brand specific IMO and has more to do with technology used.
Dude, Scorpio doesnt have simlar numbers not by a long long shot, if it has then it would do 200 kmph @ around 3500 rpm, a rpm which scorpio reaches easily in 5th gear. For your info 100 kph in safari comes up even before 1800 rpm.
Besides it not technology dependent, it depends on the gearing the how far can the engine rev in top gear.

Last edited by extreme_torque : 14th September 2007 at 15:06.
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Old 14th September 2007, 16:17   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
Dude, Scorpio doesnt have simlar numbers not by a long long shot, if it has then it would do 200 kmph @ around 3500 rpm, a rpm which scorpio reaches easily in 5th gear. For your info 100 kph in safari comes up even before 1800 rpm.
Besides it not technology dependent, it depends on the gearing the how far can the engine rev in top gear.
Dude, using your own logic, If Safari does 100 Kmph below 1800 , then it should do 194 kmph at 3500 rpm. Now dont tell me your stock Safari does 194 Kmph in fifth gear . ( there is something known as rev limiter in 5th gear, which is an overdrive ) And rev limiter in over drive is not a proprietary technology.

Here is the comparison -

safari does 90 Kmph in 4th at 2320 rpm ( which is 66.3% of its maximum RPM of 3500 ) source - overdrive test , september 05

Scorpio does 90 Kmph in 4th at 2880 rpm ( which is 60.6 % of its maximum rpm of 4750 ) source - overdrive test , March 05

Fifth is overdrive with similar ratios in both vehicles.

Both the vehicles are relaxed highway cruisers and attain 90 - 100 speeds at 60 - 65% of their maximum RPM.

Now you tell me why the numbers are not similar and what is the specific trait of safaris engine, which makes it a better highway cruiser., compared to others.
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Old 14th September 2007, 20:54   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by w 12 View Post
Dude, using your own logic, If Safari does 100 Kmph below 1800 , then it should do 194 kmph at 3500 rpm. Now dont tell me your stock Safari does 194 Kmph in fifth gear . ( there is something known as rev limiter in 5th gear, which is an overdrive ) And rev limiter in over drive is not a proprietary technology.

Here is the comparison -

safari does 90 Kmph in 4th at 2320 rpm ( which is 66.3% of its maximum RPM of 3500 ) source - overdrive test , september 05

Scorpio does 90 Kmph in 4th at 2880 rpm ( which is 60.6 % of its maximum rpm of 4750 ) source - overdrive test , March 05

Fifth is overdrive with similar ratios in both vehicles.

Both the vehicles are relaxed highway cruisers and attain 90 - 100 speeds at 60 - 65% of their maximum RPM.

Now you tell me why the numbers are not similar and what is the specific trait of safaris engine, which makes it a better highway cruiser., compared to others.
Sorry for being but cudn't helpmyself

w12.....It easily does 140@2300 and 160@2600 still way for another 400rpm but is limited by revlimiter in the ECU.It just doesnt let it go beyond 2600rpm.
scorpio is a car which is short geared..(see the manual for the gear ratios more specifically.) spread across the rpm for its range
viz a viz safari's gearing is longer and is spread across until 3000rpm.

It goes without much saying and discussions that a long geared vehicle of SUV class which develops peak torque at relatively less rpm is a extremely comfy cruiser and has the ability to maintain that comfortable 120-130 speed without putting much stress on the engine parts. Hope this answers ur questions. There are many threads on these technical details like gear ratios etc etc elsewhere on this forum.Experts can put in their thought on this


Coming back to 2.2 . came to know that workshop guys are being sent to plant for training etc.., but according to them its really gonna be a rubber burner

I am no expert on the engine valves etc and other thing, but what i came across was that 2.2 doesnt has self adjusting valves.(does that make any sense) when compared to self adjusting hydraulic valves as in current dicor.

Last edited by Rahulk76 : 14th September 2007 at 20:56.
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