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Old 7th December 2009, 05:37   #136
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I repeat, high sales does mean that it is VFM for the average mass market. People wouldn't buy a particular car if they don't think it is worth the penny they spend. It is as simple as that.
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Old 7th December 2009, 07:46   #137
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finney, my dad, previous owner of a FIAT, disagrees. In fact, he might even punch you in the face, but that's my dad and is a reason he isn't on this forum.

I'm done with this thread though, I've seen hundreds of these and it never reaches anywhere. You guys can scream onto your keyboards until you are blue in the face. But the fact of the matter is, the ANHC is a success.

@aago : Then I suppose the snob value has come from the company name sounding so coooool maaaaaaaaan....
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Old 7th December 2009, 07:56   #138
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@ Immortalz
I don't think anyone can disagree with you about the ANHC being a success.
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Old 7th December 2009, 08:31   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamlegend View Post
"Higher sales does not mean VFM IMHO".

Can you explain that aaggoswami??
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrinivasap View Post
I repeat, high sales does mean that it is VFM for the average mass market. People wouldn't buy a particular car if they don't think it is worth the penny they spend. It is as simple as that.
Higher sales can result from high value of the brand too. And I think this is the case with Honda City. Linea offers better VFM car as compared to Honda city, but still city sells more. Next in the line is SX4. It also offers very nice VFM overall package as compared to others but is still not able to sell as good as City.
Innova sells more than Xylo, but we all know that Xylo is more VFM that Innova. Take example of Optra Magnum diesel. Its a very good car with good suspension ( all round McPherson is what I still prefer over the torsion beams so rampant now ), good space, everything but still was not able to sell as well as Civic ( which was king at that time ). Take Cruze, its got almost everything one wants, but now has fallen down to sales as much as Laura.

All this depends on complete package and not only car. Complete package = car + A.S & S., may be resale for those who consider it, image, etc.

There are people who find Innova better VFM package than Xylo. Note that this varies from person to person. To me even as an overall package, G3HC is not the best out there. For others it is.

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Originally Posted by ImmortalZ View Post
But the fact of the matter is, the ANHC is a success.

@aago : Then I suppose the snob value has come from the company name sounding so coooool maaaaaaaaan....
I am not sure if it came from so cool man, but some manufacturers are quite lucky and some are equally unlucky as far as image building goes, but that is not likely to change.

Yes, G3HC has sold well, well enough to leave many stunned considering the price of City. If people are happy buying it, its OK. I am not the one who finds it good enough to command such a price. But that only me.
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Old 7th December 2009, 09:11   #140
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Not sure where this is going. Sidindica just posted that 50,000 ANHC's were sold in the first year. And then it all starts. Aggoswami & Supreme saying that Honda's are not VFM as well as itnerd, skywalker, immortalz saying the opposite will not decrease or increase the sales. Indian consumers are no fools, they value their money too much & will put their money only where they find it apt. There must be something that Honda is doing right with the 'City' that every year they consistently top the sales charts. It not sheer luck, its not snob value, its not brand loyalty (see the dismal sales of Jazz). Its the product that they have given, its the total 'complete package' i.e. engine, looks, f.e., interior quality, 'reliability as per consumer ownership experience', repeatability, a.s.s., etc.

Even if they aren't the master of one trade, they're the jack of them all. Please, i say please don't belittle the Indian consumer's brain, Indian's are not dumb to just put their money on something just FOR the brand. Sorry.

Last edited by anilkalvani : 7th December 2009 at 09:15. Reason: Typos
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Old 7th December 2009, 09:28   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
I was referring to post where it was claimed that there is no competition to G3HC in its segment.
But i was referring to your point of cheaper cars having better better ride and handling than City.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
March ACI issue. Read there that City spares are expensive than SX4.
SX4 is way cheaper in price and it obviously would be cheaper to own since its a Maruti too! Lets talk about competition too instead of Baleno/SX4 only!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
Correct. But here its the feeling that Honda offers more reliability,etc. that is what I feel is incorrect.
You feel its incorrect because you have'nt owned it and i am sure you will always will feel its incorrect.
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Old 7th December 2009, 10:15   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twinblades View Post
@ Immortalz
I don't think anyone can disagree with you about the ANHC being a success.
I should've added "a success and not because the people who buy the car are stupid, but because it is a genuinely good car." But I was running late for work. :P
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Old 7th December 2009, 10:54   #143
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"Higher sales can result from high value of the brand too. And I think this is the case with Honda City. Linea offers better VFM car as compared to Honda city, but still city sells more. Next in the line is SX4. It also offers very nice VFM overall package as compared to others but is still not able to sell as good as City."
By saying this aagoswammi,you are insulting the average Indian car buyer.I have 2 words for you-JAZZ and CR-V.

"some manufacturers are quite lucky and some are equally unlucky as far as image building goes, but that is not likely to change."
Isn't there the teeniest,weeniest possibility that this luck is a customers response to the car manufacturers policies???


Nuff" Said
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Old 7th December 2009, 10:55   #144
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Higher sales can result from high value of the brand too. And I think this is the case with Honda City. Linea offers better VFM car as compared to Honda city, but still city sells more. Next in the line is SX4. It also offers very nice VFM overall package as compared to others but is still not able to sell as good as City."
By saying this aagoswammi,you are insulting the average Indian car buyer.I have 2 words for you-JAZZ and CR-V.

"some manufacturers are quite lucky and some are equally unlucky as far as image building goes, but that is not likely to change."
Isn't there the teeniest,weeniest possibility that this luck is a customer response to the car manufacturers policies and actions???


Nuff" Said
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Old 7th December 2009, 11:52   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ImmortalZ View Post
I should've added "a success and not because the people who buy the car are stupid, but because it is a genuinely good car." But I was running late for work. :P
Mission accomplished! I got you back in the thread.
Slightly OT again. If you guys remember the add on the television for the ANHC the car was in a funky red. I can't remember ever seeing that colour on the road. This is all the more curious knowing how we Indians like our cars in Red.
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Old 7th December 2009, 12:01   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twinblades View Post
If you guys remember the add on the television for the ANHC the car was in a funky red. I can't remember ever seeing that colour on the road. This is all the more curious knowing how we Indians like our cars in Red.
Looks like the cars on the TV commecial has to be red Probably that is because Red looks catchy on ads. This is also true for print ads to an extent.
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Old 7th December 2009, 15:12   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karanraheja View Post
But i was referring to your point of cheaper cars having better better ride and handling than City.
Quote:
Originally Posted by karanraheja View Post
Simpler way Ride and handling is not ANHC's USP.
Agreed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by karanraheja View Post
SX4 is way cheaper in price and it obviously would be cheaper to own since its a Maruti too! Lets talk about competition too instead of Baleno/SX4 only!!
Well, you asked me this :

Quote:
Originally Posted by karanraheja View Post
Could you mention your source here?? Or atleast give some data. The only drawback i see is the maintenance plan . You can kindly ask GTO and other HC owners on cost of spares and i dont think there would be a big difference in price of spares of ANHC compared to OHC/NHC.
So I replied that SX4, which is nearest competitior to G3HC has cheaper spares. So no question of way cheaper, etc. Fact is Maruti SX4 is cheaper to maintain than G3HC, that is what all I want to say.

Next, even Verna is cheaper than City to maintain.


Quote:
Originally Posted by karanraheja View Post
You feel its incorrect because you have'nt owned it and i am sure you will always will feel its incorrect.
a) Thanks for polite words.
b) Can you explain to me how Honda delivers better realiability ? I would like to update myself.

Our cars have never seen service center gates except for normal servicing. Do help me here on how Honda offers better reliability as compared to others and in what parameters. I want to update myself and also we are considering a new car ( I assume you have read that my father is inclined towards Innova ) so if you help me a bit here, we might end up buying G3HC.

Last edited by aaggoswami : 7th December 2009 at 15:15.
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Old 7th December 2009, 20:35   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
Next, even Verna is cheaper than City to maintain.
Ahh Finally you brought out a car in comparison in that segment which is a Non- Maruti!!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
Can you explain to me how Honda delivers better realiability ? I would like to update myself.

Our cars have never seen service center gates except for normal servicing. Do help me here on how Honda offers better reliability as compared to others and in what parameters. I want to update myself and also we are considering a new car ( I assume you have read that my father is inclined towards Innova ) so if you help me a bit here, we might end up buying G3HC.

I have just owned the car for 6 months, so i obviously cant comment on its long term reliability. If you have a doubt on the reliability then i think you will have a give a negative comment on ANHC even if it sells 3 lac units in 5years.The City name plate has proved its reliability since 10 years.If you have a doubt please ask few HC owners in the forum.


I do have to say the maintenance plan of Honda still needs to be reworked after seeing Linea's maintenance plan.
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Old 7th December 2009, 23:50   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnonymousCoward
A car which is not good, at least in your eyes, cannot control over 50% of the market share, while others are scrambling to get even 20% of it.
I never said the car is bad - quote me if I have ever said that. And if you think a car is good just because it sells the most, then Swift must be a real great car, given that it tops the segment. But sorry, my Dad owns one, and apart from the handling and ABS/airbags, there is nothing much great about it. And by the same logic, the Jazz must be a damn bad car, since most buyers would not even touch it with a bargepole.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iTNerd
if a product sells consistently over a period of time, then it says something about the product... good products, coupled with the brand image, sell on its own!
Yeah, like the Swift for example, right ? And those products that suck, won't sell, like the Jazz for example.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chevelle
my client here has a ford here that has run 2 lac miles and still counting. now is that reliability? partially yes and partially no, as we have to consider how much the person have spend on maintaining one for 2 lac miles and compare with same segment cars from other manufacturers.
Oh yeah, now reliability is not just about cars failing, but about maintenance costs. You might have read here that a Ford is costly to maintain in India, but is that the case in US also ? I don't know - never owned cars in the US. And what data do you have about a 2lac miles run Honda's maintenance costs to say that the Ford cost more in maintenance ? Talk with facts buddy, not just hypothesis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iTNerd
it has become a norm for someone who has not own a Honda in their lifetime to ridicule the brand just because they can't afford it..
You seem to be implying that those of us who are pointing out issues with the ANHC can't afford it. That's surely a first here - you criticize Honda because you can't afford it.

You might think its a big deal to be able to buy an ANHC/Civic, but for many around here buying an ANHC/Civic is no big deal. The way you say it makes it look like the costliest car in India is a Honda and once someone has bought it, it's nirvana. Get real, buddy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iTNerd
I for once was there too, because when I owned a Maruti, I believed that it was the best in that segment, but guess, what, it was just the emotion and arrogancy of not wanting to accept that there is a better car
Just because you were there once and thought like that, does not mean everyone has to think on similar lines.

I have not owned a Honda (car). But when I bought the Baleno, the ONLY other car I considered as a possible option was the NHC (which I guess makes clear what I think about a Honda product). And affordability or the lack of it, was not the reason I did not buy the NHC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iTNerd
must have been like winning a trophy in trying so hard to find those few threads of Hondas leaving people stranded.
Not like a trophy, but felt happy knowing that I could help enlighten certain people (quoted below) for whom a Honda failing was blasphemy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chevelle
the owner's whole family was stranded on a highway in brand new Line i know this can happen to any car, but i haven't yet heard anyone say, 'their city left them stranded on a highway'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iTNerd
so far, I have only seen Tatas/Hyundai/FIAT (palio) breaking down on the roads.. yet to see any Toyota/Honda on the roadside with a technician
I chanced upon this thread when it was just 3 pages and today it is 10-pages long. I never mentioned anywhere that the ANHC is a bad car or not worth the money or worse than its peers or the sales figures are not justified.

I focussed only on 2 factors - FE and reliability. And after 7+ pages, nobody has any data collated from actual users which concludes that ANHC is the most FE of its peers.

And no one has any data to prove in the Indian context that a Honda is more reliable (not leaving one stranded) than competing brands. But every Honda-fan seems to be pissed-off that I could even cast aspersions about the hallowed H brand. Go figure.

Last edited by supremeBaleno : 7th December 2009 at 23:53.
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Old 8th December 2009, 01:17   #150
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Whoa! A raging debate based on some great figures posted by Honda. I guess names like Honda, Fiat etc. etc do trigger some passions here.

I do think the AHNC is a great product. I also KNOW that the Indian Buyer, in most cases, puts his money down after careful consideration. The ANHC is a nearly complete package; I say nearly because they have surely scrimped on features that a premium car deserves. But this too is very common with the Japanese (I work with a Japanese Co. handling high technology equipment. They simply put a premium on reliability and precision over out and out luxury).
With the ANHC, Honda has very smartly created a new sub segment...nestling itself very cozily in between the Rs. 800,000 - Rs.11,00,000 segment. There is simply no competition in this bracket. Even if one were to consider specs...lets take the engine for eg. - in the 100-110Bhp range, there is the Fiesta, the SX4, Verna. Above that, one directly goes to the Altis, the Civic and so on. For the past year, we have the ANHC, at 118ps, with no direct competition. I have intentionally not mentioned the CEDIA, only due to a complete absence of Mitsubishi and HM A.S.S. and dealerships from the pan India geography.

Honda have priced the ANHC out of reach for the original "CITY" segment buyer; they have given virtually the same features and a superb, albeit less powerful engine for the CIVIC buyer for a full Rs 200,000+ lakh less. (less space though). This could definitely explain the numbers. The ANHC may have cannibalized the CIVIC, which seems like a foolish car to buy now.
I think that a whole lot of this debate would have been avoided had Honda simply branded the car as something else, other than as a new City. Unfortunately, this was a segment the City began in and continues to be in, for most of us.

There are cars that handle better, are more FTD, have more features, give better F.E. and are more affordable, but Honda has made a name for itself in India with its products, technology, very, very reliable products, consistent quality of support, and yes, very very smart marketing!

I do not own a Honda, I hate the Jazz, and cannot afford the ANHC, with its "All New" price. Hehehe...I drive a Fiat, and I do think that Honda could definitely have given more features in the ANHC for the price that they are demanding.

All said and done...Kudos to Honda India..great job!, but lets also have a car thats more engine and less "Magic Seats" please! So that you can also keep a lower segment happy.
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