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Old 3rd December 2009, 16:20   #76
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Whatever said and done, when it comes to reliability, Honda scores over most of the players, both in India and abroad, a simple FACT, that can't be just brushed aside..if it ain't for that reliability, NASA won't be conducting studies on using Honda Built motors in the new Rover space vehicles for Mars.

Just last month, Honda and BMW were voted as the most reliable car makers in UK.. with Honda Civic (Euro) being at the top.. Honda Civic is the UK most reliable car, survey reveals

German and UK drivers vote Honda Number 1 car brand - Galway Independent

The 10 Most Reliable Car Brands VS Your Preconceived Notions - The Consumerist

I know, now I have made myself the target for all those who don't own a Honda!

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Old 3rd December 2009, 16:33   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
Most of us have that "indescribable feel" about our cars (irrespective of the brand) unless we got a lemon. You have owned the NHC for what 5 years and say that you did not feel the need to change. Cool. But does that mean it is something you feel only with a Honda ? No.

I don't know guys, but after debating reliability, now you guys are going into intangible and unrelated things like "feel", "fancy electronics" and stuff.
Of all the cars I have owned - three Maruti models and two Hyundai - I got that feeling only with the Honda. Perhaps, the NHC is the first `good car' I have owned. Perhaps, if I had a Ford or GM car in the same range, I would have felt the same way. I am talking about my personal experience.

And yes, feelings are by nature, subjective.
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Old 3rd December 2009, 16:37   #78
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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post

And let us confer the epitome of reliability award on Honda after the oldest Hondas in India do another 10-15 years and match what humble Suzukis have been doing as a matter-of-fact.
Why are you comparing 10-15 year old Suzukis to Honda.My 2008 Swift has rattling which started at less than 100 km on the odo,very difficult to solve.Brakes of the Vdi are not good.Has horrible after sales service experience at MASS .

Please dont compare Suzuki and Honda.
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Old 3rd December 2009, 17:21   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarScream
Of all the cars I have owned - three Maruti models and two Hyundai - I got that feeling only with the Honda. Perhaps, the NHC is the first `good car' I have owned.
The cars you owned were M800, Santro, Zen & Esteem, none of which are in the same range as the NHC. So, yes that could be why you did not feel the same way as you yourself answered below.
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarScream
Perhaps, if I had a Ford or GM car in the same range, I would have felt the same way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mevtec
Why are you comparing 10-15 year old Suzukis to Honda.My 2008 Swift has rattling which started at less than 100 km on the odo,very difficult to solve.Brakes of the Vdi are not good.Has horrible after sales service experience at MASS. Please dont compare Suzuki and Honda.
You did not get the whole point about reliability, did you ? Reliability of a car is not about the A.S.S. or rattling. It is about how a car goes about what it is made for (transportation) without breaking-down or leaving you stranded. With this definition, I don't think a 10-year old OHC running around town is a big deal compared to similar or older Suzukis that have been doing the same, without making a big fuss about something that is expected by default in today's cars. Hence the comparison.
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Old 3rd December 2009, 17:30   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
You did not get the whole point about reliability, did you ? Reliability of a car is not about the A.S.S. or rattling. It is about how a car goes about what it is made for (transportation) without breaking-down or leaving you stranded. With this definition, I don't think a 10-year old OHC running around town is a big deal compared to similar or older Suzukis that have been doing the same, without making a big fuss about something that is expected by default in today's cars. Hence the comparison.
I think rattling is related to reliability, materials used in making the car. Why would it rattle if good technique and materials were used? As a company things should improve, Rattling was there for M800 that is ok, the same rattling is not acceptable in SX4 atleast.
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Old 3rd December 2009, 17:34   #81
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Default What is Reliability

In general, reliability (systemic def.) is the ability of a person or system to perform and maintain its functions in routine circumstances, as well as hostile or unexpected circumstances.

The IEEE defines it as ". . . the ability of a system or component to perform its required functions under stated conditions for a specified period of time."


When we apply the above definition to the Reliability of a Car Brand or Company, is its ability to Deliver the Products, Service the products under stated (at the time of purchase) conditions for a specified period of time during routine circumstances as well as hostile and un-expected circumstances

Last edited by StarVegabond : 3rd December 2009 at 17:36.
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Old 3rd December 2009, 18:15   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post

You did not get the whole point about reliability, did you ? Reliability of a car is not about the A.S.S. or rattling. It is about how a car goes about what it is made for (transportation) without breaking-down or leaving you stranded. With this definition, I don't think a 10-year old OHC running around town is a big deal compared to similar or older Suzukis
Reliability depends on good quality and good service.If your car dosen't have good quality materials and good service back up, reliability will suffer.

If Suzuki and Honda is similar,why is that my 2004 NHC dosen't have even a minor trouble.In the mean time the Swift 2008 (used carefully) having many issues like, problems with brake power,sound during braking,gear shift etc.The sad thing is that MASS is not intrested to rectify these problems.

May be your experiences were different from mine.Please don't praise Suzuki too much.
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Old 3rd December 2009, 18:31   #83
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Originally Posted by anachronix View Post
Just have to wait for the Cruzefication of the Civic in the coming months
well, i don't think a 'Cruze'fication will happen. Second month of sales, and its already down by 300 from first month. Its going the same way of other GM cars.

'Alt'ification is another story.

Quote:
Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
You did not get the whole point about reliability, did you ? Reliability of a car is not about the A.S.S. or rattling. It is about how a car goes about what it is made for (transportation) without breaking-down or leaving you stranded.
thats a pretty narrow definition there SB. To me reliability is functioning as expected. And if a 2 year old car is rattling, it low very low on reliability for me.
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Old 3rd December 2009, 19:44   #84
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Two of my late 20s colleagues have bought a ANHC a few months ago. Both had ~ 7/7.5 lac budgets. None of them are T-BHPian material - not too passionate about cars. Their reasoning was as follows:

1. Linea - "Wow. Liked it. Maybe the driver position felt a bit weird. But am scared about A.S.S and Resale..what if turns out to be a huge mistake..."

2. Fiesta - "too cramped. design is too ordinary. Ford A.S.S.is costly.. "

3. Verna - "looks average. OK overall. Could have been cheaper maybe"

4. Aveo - "very nice and quiet. great interiors, great price. but Chevrolet...servicing..low resale..would the company remain afloat...a bit of a risk"

5. SX4 - "somehow doesn't feel very premium. Also heard the mileage is pretty bad. Why aren't there too many on the road?...anyway, will put it in the consideration set, its a maruti afterall "

6. DZire - "a segment down - too ugly for my taste"

7. Logan - "but isn't that a taxi car?"

8. Indigo - "no Tata - doesn't have a premium image"

9. ANHC - "nice latest design. suprisingly spacious. liked it. but way too expensive...well, its a Honda anyway, has the image, will give me good resale and good FE. And the EMI differential is not too high. Also, see loads of them around. Heck, why not?"

Last edited by d_himan : 3rd December 2009 at 19:53.
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Old 3rd December 2009, 20:42   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shamanth
I think rattling is related to reliability, materials used in making the car. Why would it rattle if good technique and materials were used?
If you put an SX4 & NHC side-by-side and compare the cars on quality of materials used or workmanship, I don't think there is much of a fight there - the NHC would be the easy winner. But that was not what we were discussing - the whole discussion was about a car leaving you stranded and I don't see rattling being important in this context.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mevtec
If Suzuki and Honda is similar, why is that my 2004 NHC dosen't have even a minor trouble.
I have a 2005 Baleno which also has not given me any trouble. So, what is your point ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mevtec
Please don't praise Suzuki too much.
Please let me decide what I need to do and not do - I am old enough to take such 'serious' decisions as to which car to praise and which not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyWalker
thats a pretty narrow definition there SB. To me reliability is functioning as expected. And if a 2 year old car is rattling, it low very low on reliability for me.
True, the definition is narrow - I did google for an fitting definition, but could not find one. And like I said, the whole discussion was about cars leaving you stranded and I don't think rattles can leave you stranded.
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Old 3rd December 2009, 20:56   #86
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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
I have a 2005 Baleno which also has not given me any trouble. So, what is your point ?
Oh yes, but why was Baleno a dud?
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Old 3rd December 2009, 21:06   #87
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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
I don't know what kind of math you are applying in this logic here - you say a 0.002% defect rate is not bad for Honda, but a 0.005% rate is like intolerable for a Linea.

Are you suggesting that just because you did not see a Honda stranded on the road, by extension it means no Honda ever got stranded ? Cars are just like any other product being manufactured and there is always room for error.

And let us confer the epitome of reliability award on Honda after the oldest Hondas in India do another 10-15 years and match what humble Suzukis have been doing as a matter-of-fact.

On a lighter note, I wonder if the Ikons/Balenos/Accents you saw "stranded" had a flat tyre or the driver had parked for a smoke or whatever. How did you conclude they were all stranded ? Did you stop and check with them ?

EDIT : I just had to do a search on tbhp - since I could not believe that in all the Hondas sold in India, not even one had issues or left the owner stranded. And guess what, there are quite a few threads on this subject.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...-not-care.html (Problems With My Civic And Honda Does Not Care)
This Civic owner was left stranded on the highway in sweltering heat. I did not bother to read the whole thread, but looks like he got a lemon. Ofcourse, he can take consolation in the fact that he did not get a normal lemon, but a premium Honda lemon.

Another thread about manufacturing defect in an ANHC.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ng-defect.html (The Sob Story of my brand new Honda City S MT and its serious manufacturing defect.)

Civic manufacturing defect
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...g-defects.html (Civic Manufacturing Defects!!!!)
You don't seem to get the drift do you? I was comparing sales of two cars one who has half of what the other sells along their breakdown and quality issues they are having.

if you go through linea/fiesta(frank mehta and others) threads, almost all have some kind of problems which made them visit service center to get it repaired. for me this is a part of reliability. if its not for you then i have nothing to say.

as for those cars that i saw, i was myself in baleno and accent which developed a mechanical problem while going to udaipur. It so happened that in accent even if we apply pressure on accelerator pedal, the revs won't go higher and there was no momentum. in case of baleno which was 6 month old at that time had a problem in radiator cooling. had to go to nearby city in rickshaw to get help. this is not we expected from an almost new car. as for ikon i saw near nadiad, it had its hood open, i don't think he was repairing a blown tire there.

as i have mentioned before, Honda and Toyota is also included but the amount of breakdown is negligible when compare to cars they sell. and i had given epitome of reliability to Toyota and not Honda if you didn't notice it.
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Old 3rd December 2009, 21:08   #88
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I want some clarity about the rattle that people talk about Suzuki. Is it some specific noise or various different noises depending from vehicle to vehicle.
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Old 3rd December 2009, 21:08   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
I don't know what kind of math you are applying in this logic here - you say a 0.002% defect rate is not bad for Honda, but a 0.005% rate is like intolerable for a Linea.

Are you suggesting that just because you did not see a Honda stranded on the road, by extension it means no Honda ever got stranded ? Cars are just like any other product being manufactured and there is always room for error.

And let us confer the epitome of reliability award on Honda after the oldest Hondas in India do another 10-15 years and match what humble Suzukis have been doing as a matter-of-fact.

On a lighter note, I wonder if the Ikons/Balenos/Accents you saw "stranded" had a flat tyre or the driver had parked for a smoke or whatever. How did you conclude they were all stranded ? Did you stop and check with them ?

EDIT : I just had to do a search on tbhp - since I could not believe that in all the Hondas sold in India, not even one had issues or left the owner stranded. And guess what, there are quite a few threads on this subject.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...-not-care.html (Problems With My Civic And Honda Does Not Care)
This Civic owner was left stranded on the highway in sweltering heat. I did not bother to read the whole thread, but looks like he got a lemon. Ofcourse, he can take consolation in the fact that he did not get a normal lemon, but a premium Honda lemon.

Another thread about manufacturing defect in an ANHC.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ng-defect.html (The Sob Story of my brand new Honda City S MT and its serious manufacturing defect.)

Civic manufacturing defect
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...g-defects.html (Civic Manufacturing Defects!!!!)
You don't seem to get the drift do you? I was comparing sales of two cars one who has almost half of what the other sells along their breakdown and quality issues they are having. please refer to clevermax's post who has explain the same thing i was trying to explain you. thank you

if you go through linea/fiesta/baleno threads, almost all have some kind of problems which made them visit service center to get it repaired. for me this is a part of reliability. if its not for you then i have nothing to say.

as for those cars that i saw, i was myself in baleno and accent which developed a mechanical problem while going to udaipur. It so happened that in accent even if we apply pressure on accelerator pedal, the revs won't go higher and there was no momentum. in case of baleno which was 6 month old at that time had a problem in radiator cooling. had to go to nearby city in rickshaw to get help. this is not we expected from an almost new car. as for ikon i saw near nadiad, it had its hood open, i don't think he was repairing a blown tire there or a smoke with hood open.

as i have mentioned before, Honda and Toyota is also included but the amount of breakdown is negligible when compare to cars they sell. and i had given epitome of reliability to Toyota and not Honda if you notice it carefully.

Last edited by chevelle : 3rd December 2009 at 21:25.
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Old 3rd December 2009, 21:23   #90
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Originally Posted by clevermax View Post
What a funny statement this is.

If you are living in India for quite sometime, how can you not see a Maruti breakdown on the roads? I am not making a point that Marutis are unreliable, but just by considering the huge number of Maruti cars running in India, chances are high that you can see one on the road - broke down. I saw one M800 just yesterday.
There You Go clevermax

This is what i was referring to when i compared to cars who's sales are poles apart. But supremebaleno doesn't seem to understand this point.

If i find a couple of swift stranded on highway, i was pass it as a one off problem, as it literally sells 10k units a month since 3 4 years. so a manufacturing defect for 1 lakh units is bound to be a little big ratio. Same goes for m-800. Similarly for city's segment, the sales it does, finding a couple is not a big deal compared to linea/verna/fiesta that sell less than 1/3rd of city.

hope supremebaleno sees what i meant to say in my previous post

mods: please delete the previous thread. its duplicated. thank kyou

Last edited by chevelle : 3rd December 2009 at 21:33.
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