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Old 5th December 2009, 15:15   #121
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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
Sales of G3HC need not prove its best car. By those standards, Alto is the best car, right.
G3HC sells for many reasons and not just value. There are others delivering better value.
Sales are not perfect indication of
a) highest technological advantage.
b) Best value.
Note that this changes from segment to segment.
@aaggoswami, my exact sentence was:

Quote:
there is no worthy competitor to City in that segment
So, where did Alto come into picture here?
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Old 5th December 2009, 17:31   #122
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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
1) Baleno. Drive one for long to believe me.
hmmm... you are entitled to your views. To me Baleno was never a topper is any of the things you mentioned. Its not a bad car, in fact it was a pretty good drivers car. Apart from that it has the GC issues that you pointed out in NHC, was a very plain looking car, seating was uncomfortable and probably the first real loser from Maruti.

It is also the first Maruti to have withdrawn from the market so fast. usually they keep their products till kingdom come.
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Old 6th December 2009, 00:24   #123
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ROTFL! (Twenty Chars)
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Originally Posted by ImmortalZ View Post
Altis is equated to Civic on engine and drive train? Have you even driven both these cars?
Some people seem to be exceedingly good at doing this at the face of sensible reasoning. No prizes for guessing which category of people.

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Originally Posted by ImmortalZ View Post
The public doesn't give a damn about what we think. Neither does Honda. But Honda (or rather, whoever runs the City projct) knows what the public is thinking and delivers smack on target, every time. No use crying about it - that's how it is.
I didn't say it wasn't like that. People want snob value and thats what Honda delivers smack on target above everything else. (this everything includes the other tangible aspects like quality, reliability, efficiency, technology which can be found in other brands as well.). Now I have already discussed the Jazz story in previous posts so please. And I don't give a damn about what people think about what I think.

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Originally Posted by AnonymousCoward View Post
Thanks man; it is quite hard to stay sane with some posts here
Quite predcatable and surprising at the same time .

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
1) Civic engine manages timing, lift and duration whereas altis manages timing.
But that does not mean Civic's motor is far better than Altis. A drive in bumper to bumper traffic proves the point.
Overall, as far as powertrain goes, Civic and Altis can be compared. Bottom end of Altis is much better than Civic. Civic has good top end, but Altis has a better spread of punch.
At the end of the day, VVTi engine of altis is better to use than i-VTEC IMHO. Civic has only great top end, but altis has fantastic bottom end, good midrange and good top end.

BTW, I have driven both.

A thread here for this : http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...on-thread.html (Variable Valve Timing discussion thread)

A lot depends on how and where the cars are used. And niggle free brand is too big a statement. I have heard of fuel pump issues in Accord also. Nobody is perfect and good as you think. Honda is not king as far as niggle free car goes.
Thank you Aggoswami for chipping in with the comparo between Civic and Altis and I second all the points mentioned.
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Old 6th December 2009, 10:22   #124
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You've got to be joking. Honda delivers snob value? How can a brand deliver snob value? Snob value or any type of perception for a specific brand is not created by the brand, but by their customers because of other - tangible - factors delivered by the brand. Reliability or the lack of it, good service or the lack of it, expensive spares or otherwise, etc etc.

FIAT has a perception for being troublesome to own - they created that perception by having reliability problems in the past. Their new generation cars maybe as troublefree as any Japanese brand, but the perception stays. Why? Because the previous owners burned by their FIATs still refuse to recommend a new age FIAT to anyone.

Why does Honda have snob value? Because their previous customers are very happy to boast about how they paid a premium for peace of mind. Regardless of how wrong you feel they are, that's how the badge's snob value became established in India. Honda only delivered reliability and performance in the age of slow as molasses, cranky, unreliable cars. Image followed. It's hard earned.

As for the Civic vs Corolla debate, it has raged on for decades and it will keep raging on. Well maybe it'll reverse because Honda has gone green and cancelled the new NSX and changed the next Civic to a greenmobile while Toyota is happy to make and sell things like the LF-A.

This post will now transition from facts to psychobullshit. When I was in the market for a car, I test drove both several times. It's a very personal thing, the feel you get from a car. The Corolla's engine maybe the most practical with lots of torque down low, better mileage, blah blah blah. Funny thing is, even when I drove the car in bumper to bumper traffic, I loved the Civic. I didn't hate the Corolla, but I sure as hell didn't want one. Yes yes yes, it is packed full of kit and is easier to live with and on and on and on. I didn't give a damn because I didn't feel that... ugh, I hate using that phrase... "x factor" as I did with the Civic.

More than a year later, I don't regret the decision. And for me, that's all that matters. Snob value be damned.
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Old 6th December 2009, 12:00   #125
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You know what, it has become a norm for someone who has not own a Honda in their lifetime to ridicule the brand just because they can't afford it.. and its only natural, I guess.. I for once was there too, because when I owned a Maruti, I believed that it was the best in that segment, but guess, what, it was just the emotion and arrogancy of not wanting to accept that there is a better car... and I see that a lot happening here in this thread/forum... so, peace be with you, and some day when you do own and experience a Toyota/Honda, you will know why their cars sell...cheers!

Last edited by iTNerd : 6th December 2009 at 12:04.
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Old 6th December 2009, 18:13   #126
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Originally Posted by iTNerd View Post
You know what, it has become a norm for someone who has not own a Honda in their lifetime to ridicule the brand just because they can't afford it.. and its only natural, I guess.. I for once was there too, because when I owned a Maruti, I believed that it was the best in that segment, but guess, what, it was just the emotion and arrogancy of not wanting to accept that there is a better car... and I see that a lot happening here in this thread/forum... so, peace be with you, and some day when you do own and experience a Toyota/Honda, you will know why their cars sell...cheers!
+1.
Brilliantly summed up iTNerd. There's nothing left to be said.
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Old 6th December 2009, 18:27   #127
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Guys, I have not been able to understand one thing

the title of the thread is Honda sold 50K ANHCs in 1 year
There as been >125 posts, >5000 views of the thread, there has been discussion on allroundedness, Performance, Engine, Fuel efficiency, Quality, Reliability, and now on the SNOB value or lack of it.

I do not understand why the fans need to fight over the cars, undermine each other, call each other sane / insane etc etc.

i see the event as a successful milestone in the Indian automotive Industry, let us cellebrate and move on

if any one has to buy a car, evaluate all options available, make an as objective decision as possible and be at peace with the decision.
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Old 6th December 2009, 18:46   #128
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Wonderfully said it nerd ....couldn't have said it clearer myself.

There is just one more thing i want to add.
Throghout the globe Honda places a premium on its products.

The Civic is more fun to drive and the interiors are awesome.
I test drove and compared all the cars in that segment few days ago..
Even the ANHC is a wonderful package

Please read my comparison thread:-


http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/sedans...-titans.html:D (The Battle of the Titans)
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Old 6th December 2009, 19:54   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ImmortalZ View Post
FIAT has a perception for being troublesome to own - they created that perception by having reliability problems in the past. Their new generation cars maybe as troublefree as any Japanese brand, but the perception stays.
I didn't want to join issues on this thread!

But, I had to clear the air on the above comment!
Fiat cars never suffered from reliability issues, infact their cars are known for their ruggedness & Built to last quality.
The let down in the past was the Service, which is getting better slowly & steadily, though the perception still remains.

And, as SB mentioned before, Reliability is not any brand's monopoly!
All modern day cars, if maintained well, serviced at regular intervals, are reliable & lasts long!
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Old 6th December 2009, 21:07   #130
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+100 iTNerd - I remember, there were many posts here wishing the ANHC debacle when it was launched...people even said, wait for few months and there will be decline... i have seen such 100+ posts here...you like it or not, ANHC is a success now and it is not only because it is from HONDA. we indians aren't fools to buy just for brand sake...had it been the case even JAZZ should have been a runaway HIT.

Truth is, it is accepted by mass market as a VFM - my vote goes for the same
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Old 6th December 2009, 21:49   #131
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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
Ride and Handling. Cars costing less give better ride and handling.
Agreed, Linea and Fiesta top in that dept. But it surely isnt too far from them in that dept. I dont get your point of cars costing less give better ride and handling -then i would say Ikon which is cheaper is better than Baleno in ride and handling???? Simpler way Ride and handling is not ANHC's USP.

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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
High cost of spares. IIRC, cost have gone up as compared to rivals.
Could you mention your source here?? Or atleast give some data. The only drawback i see is the maintenance plan . You can kindly ask GTO and other HC owners on cost of spares and i dont think there would be a big difference in price of spares of ANHC compared to OHC/NHC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
People have image of honda as ultimate complete package cars. I never believe in this.
But the 50k odd customers did. I bought an ANHC but i dont say its an
ultimate package , it suited my needs very well and im actually quite happy with the decision and im sure other ANHC owners too feel the same.


Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
Reliability as Honda USP.
A joke. A similar joke is Maruti offering less reliability than Honda. The king here is Toyota without doubt.
Agreed Toyota is the king , but calling it a joke is a bit too much. Own it to believe it!!!!
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Old 6th December 2009, 22:30   #132
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Originally Posted by iTNerd View Post
You know what, it has become a norm for someone who has not own a Honda in their lifetime to ridicule the brand just because they can't afford it.. and its only natural, I guess.. I for once was there too, because when I owned a Maruti, I believed that it was the best in that segment, but guess, what, it was just the emotion and arrogancy of not wanting to accept that there is a better car...
I agree with Immortalz and ITNerd.Everyone who owns a Honda will usually recommend the car to a buyer.But as a previous TATA owner I am afraid to recommend their products to a friend.Before buying my ANHC I had consulted some "so called auto experts" (not in Team BHP).Almost everyone suggested Linea!But now I am happy that my decision was correct.

I dont agree that Toyota is many times better than Honda.Toyota is a bigger company and sells a lot of cars.My father had used many Toyotas abroad which were much better than the Corolla in India.Still he feels NHC Gxi is a very good car.

Honda is not perfect.I had written to Honda that I am disappointed because of the lack of climate control and cd player in ANHC.But the car is so good that we tend to overlook all these deficiencies when you own one.But I am really disappointed with the ownership experience of Swift diesel(not comparing it with Honda).


My honest opinion is that,if you are looking for a car in in C segment and can afford the running cost of ANHC go for it.If you are looking for a car in a higher segment,still take a test drive of ANHC.You may love it and save a few lakhs


But if you cannot afford ANHC (short of few lakhs) like me wait for few more months,make the money and go for it or ?start bashing Honda for pricing it too high,lack of cd player,climate contol etc.

Friends this is my personal opinion, don't take it too seriously.

Last edited by Mevtec : 6th December 2009 at 22:34.
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Old 6th December 2009, 22:45   #133
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Slightly OT. Does Auto climate control really matter? Is the Ride Quality is so bad when compared to the Linea? I find that people make an huge issue about really small things The only odd thing about the ANHC is that it doesn't have CD/MP3 player. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Last edited by twinblades : 6th December 2009 at 22:48. Reason: added something
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Old 6th December 2009, 23:09   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ImmortalZ View Post
1) Why does Honda have snob value? Because their previous customers are very happy to boast about how they paid a premium for peace of mind. Regardless of how wrong you feel they are, that's how the badge's snob value became established in India. Honda only delivered reliability and performance in the age of slow as molasses, cranky, unreliable cars. Image followed. It's hard earned.

More than a year later, I don't regret the decision. And for me, that's all that matters. Snob value be damned.
1) By the time Honda entered India through Indian production, we already had reliable and quick cars. If you are talking about exports ( before Honda started manufacturing unit in India ), then obviously it has not earned the value by being in the mass market.


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Originally Posted by AnonymousCoward View Post
@aaggoswami, my exact sentence was:
So, where did Alto come into picture here?
Point is, I dont believe that there is no competitor to Honda City in that segment. And sales of G3HC does't mean that its the best in that segment and there is no competitor to it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iTNerd View Post
You know what, it has become a norm for someone who has not own a Honda in their lifetime to ridicule the brand just because they can't afford it.. and its only natural, I guess.. I for once was there too, because when I owned a Maruti, I believed that it was the best in that segment, but guess, what, it was just the emotion and arrogancy of not wanting to accept that there is a better car... and I see that a lot happening here in this thread/forum... so, peace be with you, and some day when you do own and experience a Toyota/Honda, you will know why their cars sell...cheers!
What about those who are capable of owning one but dont like Honda cars ?
Better car can be defined as per what your expectation from a car.

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Originally Posted by finneyp View Post
Fiat cars never suffered from reliability issues, infact their cars are known for their ruggedness & Built to last quality.
The let down in the past was the Service, which is getting better slowly & steadily, though the perception still remains.
Partly correct. It started with Uno where they could not deliver the car. My uncle was the who had initially booked Uno.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shrinivasap View Post
ANHC is a success now and it is not only because it is from HONDA. we indians aren't fools to buy just for brand sake...had it been the case even JAZZ should have been a runaway HIT.

Truth is, it is accepted by mass market as a VFM - my vote goes for the same
I repeat that sales does not mean market has accepted the car as a VFM car. By those standards, Innova is better VFM than Xylo ?

Higher sales does not mean VFM IMHO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by karanraheja View Post
2) Agreed, Linea and Fiesta top in that dept. But it surely isnt too far from them in that dept. I dont get your point of cars costing less give better ride and handling -then i would say Ikon which is cheaper is better than Baleno in ride and handling???? Simpler way Ride and handling is not ANHC's USP.

3) Could you mention your source here?? Or atleast give some data. The only drawback i see is the maintenance plan . You can kindly ask GTO and other HC owners on cost of spares and i dont think there would be a big difference in price of spares of ANHC compared to OHC/NHC.

4) But the 50k odd customers did. I bought an ANHC but i dont say its an
ultimate package , it suited my needs very well and im actually quite happy with the decision and im sure other ANHC owners too feel the same.
2) I was referring to post where it was claimed that there is no competition to G3HC in its segment.

3) March ACI issue. Read there that City spares are expensive than SX4.

4) Correct. But here its the feeling that Honda offers more reliability,etc. that is what I feel is incorrect. I have stated this in my post a car is better than other depends on requirements.

Last edited by aaggoswami : 6th December 2009 at 23:11.
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Old 7th December 2009, 00:25   #135
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"Higher sales does not mean VFM IMHO".

Can you explain that aaggoswami??
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