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Old 4th December 2009, 21:54   #16
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how 'small' this small car market will go to?

its really getting crowded!

anyway good luck to Maruti in their small car venture.
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Old 4th December 2009, 22:11   #17
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Originally Posted by longhorn View Post
If the Maruti 800 is on its way out, so is the Omni. No two ways about it. In which case the Alto will end up with the K series unit since they are going to phase out the F8D motor.
Recent Autocar issue suggests otherwise. It says that although engine would be upgraded to E-IV norms, it wont be K-series. It would be current F8D motor only.
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Old 5th December 2009, 12:49   #18
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Originally Posted by hpzone View Post
Maruthi has been milking Indian customers with outdated products for long time. Now all the iternational carmakers are eyeing India and the entire market will change in next 5 years.

They don't bring any innovation or safety feature unless a competitor force them. Its high time for Maruthi to change their strategy or else they will be like Ambys and Premier of yester years!
Fully agree. I will stick my neck out and say that the only reason Maruti enjoys the top seller spot is due to wide spread A.S.S. and not because they provide great cars. I don't know how long the presence of Maruti has been (close to quarter of a century I guess), and in that period, how much innovation and originality with safety they have given, is anybody's guess.
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Old 5th December 2009, 13:00   #19
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Originally Posted by NutsNBolts View Post
Fully agree. I will stick my neck out and say that the only reason Maruti enjoys the top seller spot is due to wide spread A.S.S. and not because they provide great cars. I don't know how long the presence of Maruti has been (close to quarter of a century I guess), and in that period, how much innovation and originality with safety they have given, is anybody's guess.
Many manufacturers have good A.S.S. Particularly in the bigger cities, you will find a service center no matter what car you buy. Maruti sells so well in India because

a) They specialize in small cars and most of the cars sold in India are exactly in the price range where Maruti is strongest. The number of options you have in a Maruti showroom below five lakh is mind-boggling. Its not hard for anyone to find the perfect car from such a wide range.

b) You can't go wrong with one. Their cars, like it or not, are reliable, efficient and basically get the job done for the average Indian. That is quite an achievement in itself. They do make a 'special' car, like the Swift, occassionally, but their mainstay is from bread and butter models that appeal to our heads.

In many ways, Maruti is sort of the default option for the Indian buyer. That's come about after a quarter century of solid performance in the market.

Last edited by McLaren Rulez : 5th December 2009 at 13:01.
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Old 5th December 2009, 16:10   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hpzone View Post
Maruthi has been milking Indian customers with outdated products for long time. Now all the iternational carmakers are eyeing India and the entire market will change in next 5 years.

They don't bring any innovation or safety feature unless a competitor force them. Its high time for Maruthi to change their strategy or else they will be like Ambys and Premier of yester years!
Quote:
Originally Posted by NutsNBolts View Post
Fully agree. I will stick my neck out and say that the only reason Maruti enjoys the top seller spot is due to wide spread A.S.S. and not because they provide great cars. I don't know how long the presence of Maruti has been (close to quarter of a century I guess), and in that period, how much innovation and originality with safety they have given, is anybody's guess.
Is it only Maruti who is milking the Indians? What do Hyundai and Honda do? They are also either selling very old models along with new models, or charging very high premium for their cars. So, it's not only Maruti.

Maruti first brought safety features into the C-segment in SX4, only after which even Honda included those options in their NHC.

Maruti brought the first super hatch Swift into the Indian market, when other options were dull cars like Palio and Getz.

And, it is a long 10-12 years when other manufacturers came to India. Still, Maruti holds a near 50% market share here. And we know who are like old Ambys and Padminis now. Example: Fiat. Even after their much awaited launches like Punto and Linea, they sell just around 2000 cars per month! If Maruti sells just 2000 cars per month for a model, they just stop the production of that car and replace with another one. Eg: Esteem, Baleno, Versa, old Zen.

Another one: GM. Struggles to sell their cars here.

And A.S.S. is a very important matter in this sales industry. We know what A.S.S. Fiat is giving even after their tie-up with Tata. Not even A.S.S., but the buying experience itself!

Last edited by romeomidhun : 5th December 2009 at 16:29.
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Old 5th December 2009, 18:54   #21
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+1 to both the above posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hpzone View Post
Maruthi has been milking Indian customers with outdated products for long time. Now all the iternational carmakers are eyeing India and the entire market will change in next 5 years.

They don't bring any innovation or safety feature unless a competitor force them. Its high time for Maruthi to change their strategy or else they will be like Ambys and Premier of yester years!
Yes my friend. They have been milking but by the way far less than others do.

FYI, they are the first to introduce a class leading car, engine and saftey features in 2 or more segments - twice or more. If that is not innovation, I don't understand what is.

Ans when they give out a modern car with all saftey features 0 A-Star - people don't buy it as it is expensive.

FYI, MASS are one if the best equipped, possibly the first ones to equip their A.S.S's with such equipment and in a very wide network. An, do you know how good their customer care works? Forget a negative feedback, even if you don't give feedback they are after you. A sense of displeasure in your tone, they sense a fire on their bottom side. I was blown out by this kind of a response.

For me, there's no better peace of mind than buying an affordable Maruti car (even saftey comes affordable with Maruti in comparison with others) knowing that it is reliable, can be attended by anyone anywhere and that parts cost considerably less in comparison to others. Yesh, they have their own set of niggles but the positives far out class the negatives.
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Old 5th December 2009, 20:50   #22
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Originally Posted by romeomidhun View Post
Is it only Maruti who is milking the Indians? What do Hyundai and Honda do? They are also either selling very old models along with new models, or charging very high premium for their cars. So, it's not only Maruti.

Maruti first brought safety features into the C-segment in SX4, only after which even Honda included those options in their NHC.

After more than a quarter of century, if the leading car manufacturer of the country offers safety features and is yet bettered by other manufacturers, there is something amiss.

Maruti brought the first super hatch Swift into the Indian market, when other options were dull cars like Palio and Getz.

Maruti is a pioneer is bringing fresh change to Indian roads by bringing in very contemporary looking cars. But what happened after Swift? The title of this post is another small car from Maruti and that is what needs to be kept in perspective. I am not denying what Maruti has done for the Indian car market, but presently, it appears they are not reading the market as well was their wont.

And, it is a long 10-12 years when other manufacturers came to India. Still, Maruti holds a near 50% market share here. And we know who are like old Ambys and Padminis now. Example: Fiat. Even after their much awaited launches like Punto and Linea, they sell just around 2000 cars per month! If Maruti sells just 2000 cars per month for a model, they just stop the production of that car and replace with another one. Eg: Esteem, Baleno, Versa, old Zen.

Exactly my point. It has taken Maruti a long long time to reach where they are today. I have maintained that no predictions can be made about a manufacturer in a year. Fiat might succeed or even wind up, no one can predict that, in similar vain, no one can predict where Maruti will be few years down the line.

And A.S.S. is a very important matter in this sales industry. We know what A.S.S. Fiat is giving even after their tie-up with Tata. Not even A.S.S., but the buying experience itself!
A.S.S is the single most factor, as i wrote earlier, that has ensured a top of the mountain position for Maruti. When Hyundai started out in the small car segment, I remember quite a few of my friends bad mouthing the the Hyundai A.S.S. So things change with time. And dear sir, I am not sure if your comment about buying experience is borne out of personal experience or hearsay. As far as my personal experience goes, buying experience as well as the A.S.S has been as good as, if not better than any other manufacturer.

I stated my point of view and I stick to what I said. You have yours and are likely to stick with that. So lets leave it at that rather than getting into something that's akin to Hanuman Peace.
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Old 5th December 2009, 21:05   #23
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Originally Posted by longhorn View Post
If the Maruti 800 is on its way out, so is the Omni.
============
Anyways we get to see how good Maruti engineers are in designing a car at the Auto Expo!
AFAIK, both the alto and the wagonR are not to get the K series engines. Their engines will only be upgraded to meet the new emission standards
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Old 7th December 2009, 00:25   #24
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Originally Posted by NutsNBolts View Post
A.S.S is the single most factor, as i wrote earlier, that has ensured a top of the mountain position for Maruti. When Hyundai started out in the small car segment, I remember quite a few of my friends bad mouthing the the Hyundai A.S.S. So things change with time. And dear sir, I am not sure if your comment about buying experience is borne out of personal experience or hearsay. As far as my personal experience goes, buying experience as well as the A.S.S has been as good as, if not better than any other manufacturer.
For me, it's not only A.S.S. that made Maruti what Maruti is now.

1. Problem free cars. Most problems related to Maruti are not blockers, but just some extra sounds from here and there. And if a problem occurs once in a while, you will find a very-nearby automobile shop with Maruti spares, and service station / local mechanic who can service it. Consider it with other manufacturers where you need to go to big cities for finding spares as well as service stations. For Indian conditions, the Maruti style is the way to go.

2. Mileage. Better than most other manufacturers in India, I can say.

3. A range of products. If you want sleek cars, you will get one In Maruti stable. If you want masculine cars, you will get that also there.

4. Funky designs. Look at Swift, SX4, Ritz, A-Star, old Zen and Gypsy. Either you will love it or hate it. But can't ignore it. Compare it with other models like Santro, Palio, U-VA, Fusion, Indica, Getz, Accent, Ikon, Indigo, CS, NHC, Aveo, Logan, Elantra and the Mahindra jeeps.. All are plain styles for me, and will get bored after you see them for some time.

5. Price. They don't charge too much for their cars. Compare it with others, as I mentioned earlier.

6. The mentality of Maruti sales / service personnel - they are not as arrogant as Hyundai / Tata / Fiat people at any day.

Last edited by romeomidhun : 7th December 2009 at 00:33.
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Old 7th December 2009, 03:08   #25
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+1 to both the above posts.
.

For me, there's no better peace of mind than buying an affordable Maruti car (even saftey comes affordable with Maruti in comparison with others) knowing that it is reliable, can be attended by anyone anywhere and that parts cost considerably less in comparison to others. Yesh, they have their own set of niggles but the positives far out class the negatives.
I do agree Maruti has given a inexpensive range for Indian customer for long time, only because there was no competition.

My point is not just against Maruti, but everyone milking Indian customers like the Ambys and Premier did in 70's and 80's. Now The the competition is going to drive the market (at last) with so many options for customers.

How do you justify selling a car like 800 for 25 years... it happens only in a market with hardly any competition!
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Old 7th December 2009, 08:32   #26
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Things are looking good for the customer. Eventually I guess Maruti will lose the the 50% market share. Until recently Hyundai was the only challenger in the small car bracket who was doing well, Now the rest of the wolfs want a piece of the pie and they are working at maximum speed to get it.
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Old 7th December 2009, 12:15   #27
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Originally Posted by hpzone View Post
How do you justify selling a car like 800 for 25 years... it happens only in a market with hardly any competition!
What wrong did Maruti do if no one else is able to compete with the Maruti 800 ? Did Maruti stop the others from selling a car at the Maruti 800's price point? IMO everyone woke up only after Tata brought out the Nano. Till then they were too lazy to think about it (including Maruti). Just look how many manufacturers are trying to compete with the Nano now. Couldn't they have tried that earlier?
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Old 7th December 2009, 12:33   #28
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Maruti has more than fulfilled its promise of being the "family" car for the average Indian.
Their cars are pretty decently put together, deliver decent performance, fuel efficiency and are easy and inexpensive to run and maintain.

Add to it their phenomenal reach of sales-distribution networks, standardization, parts availability, service centres and consumer trust - and you have a winning combination in this huge country of ours.

We Indians suddenly got to see this side of the coin, which was a glaring difference between the earlier available cars and Maruti. It was literally like coming out of the wilderness of the protectionist days into the open landscape of early- liberalization!
Maruti had the advantage of being first movers in India which I think they used pretty decently to their advantage.

No wonder they have been successful.

The main thing is that even today, 25 years on, for the average Indian individual as well as family, Maruti signifies a decent level of aspiration as well as that rare thing -Trust! Maruti has indeed earned that Trust!

It is only now in the last 7 -10 years that the urban Indian consumer has evolved to a certain extent and with the relative ease of access to travel, information and knowledge, is able to appreciate the various nuances of the choices being offered to him/her.

Yet, despite the proliferation of manufacturers and brands today, Maruti continues to enjoy a huge chunk of consumers - simply because they pretty much have something for everyone in this complex marketplace of ours!

All manufacturers/ brands need to realize and internalize and genuinely believe that their consumer is the person who makes their worlds go around and therefore they need to respect the consumer - let them learn - the consumer is the one who will ultimately benefit and this, to me is an excellent state of affairs!

Consumer education and changing consumer behaviour can take at least a generation or two in a complex market like ours. Todays kids will probably aspire to different things as compared with the kids of the '80's and '90's.

But I think we can be pretty sure that for quite a while to come, a youngster's first, entry level 4 wheeler will more probably be from Maruti than from anyone else.

The other later entrants into our marketplace will take time to establish themselves as a viable choice here - like they say, Rome wasn't built in a day!

Last edited by shankar.balan : 7th December 2009 at 12:36.
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Old 18th December 2009, 05:23   #29
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according to Suzuki Fan Maruti Suzuki is plan 2 new lowcost small car.
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Old 18th December 2009, 05:40   #30
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Is Maruthi coming up with a face lifted Gypsy ?
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