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Old 27th July 2010, 23:35   #76
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@ A350XWB,

Bollock$$

The Smart's 800cc Diesel only started producing 54 bhp & 130 Nm in its latest guise introduced in Dec' 09, so not been a year let alone 'years'. When introduced it produced 45 bhp.

The mileage is impressive but its also a two seater with a plastic body. Oh and not to forget the Diesel starts at GBP 10k (converted Rs.7lacs.). That is what I call hype.
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Old 28th July 2010, 00:02   #77
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^^ Even the Nano Diesel (If it goes for sale in Europe ever) with Euro specifications with all the safety equipment and better trim will cost much much more than price tag we get in India. And if we compare both Nano and Smart head on, the Smart is much superior car.
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Old 28th July 2010, 01:06   #78
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No the Smart in no way is 'Superior'.

Lets take a few things into context; This car was designed and made by one of the oldest and biggest names in the car industry, Mercedes Benz. In its latest avatar this car is a two seater and starts at 8k pounds (5.6 lacs). If this is the best city car they can come up with, well Tata has trumped them, at least with the basics.

The Nano seats 4 has an all steel body, take it any which way is still just one third the price of a Smart. Not only that at the Smart weighing 770 kgs is nearly 30% heavier than a Nano, again despite being mostly plastic and having only two seats.


When Autocar UK was given the Europa version and previewed the car this is what their report said...

'it is likely to cost from £4000 - £5000 in the UK.........It will be powered by a 1.0-litre three-cylinder engine, which will produce around 60bhp. The Europa will get a five-speed manual ‘box to allow for longer gearing, improved fuel economy and reduced CO2 emissions.........
It features an all-steel body, with an overall length of 3300mm...... Under the skin, all-independent rear suspension features, while Europa models will get ABS, traction control, electric power steering and twin airbags....'


source: Autocar UK


Forget a Europa for the price of a Smart one can buy a loaded Vista.


Of course the Smart is more refined and safer against the version of the Nano we see at present. But this in no ways justifys the steep price. i cant wait till the Europa gets launched in UK and starts to give things like the Smart a run for their money.
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Old 28th July 2010, 07:48   #79
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Now all it needs is a nice AT. That would complete the package.
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Old 28th July 2010, 11:24   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
^^ Even the Nano Diesel (If it goes for sale in Europe ever) with Euro specifications with all the safety equipment and better trim will cost much much more than price tag we get in India. And if we compare both Nano and Smart head on, the Smart is much superior car.
Smart is superior, but Nano is more cute. Smart looks like a car cut into half, Definitely not proportionate. For the same price, i will go with Nano anytime.
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Old 28th July 2010, 14:14   #81
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Originally Posted by shortbread View Post
@ A350XWB,
Bollock$$

The Smart's 800cc Diesel only started producing 54 bhp & 130 Nm in its latest guise introduced in Dec' 09, so not been a year let alone 'years'. When introduced it produced 45 bhp.
Brother, I was commenting on the below post, which is a bit far fetched. Smallest CRDI engine after the Multijet? Give me a break!

Quote:
Originally Posted by amarprusty View Post
Smallest CRDI 800 CC engine in the world after the 1248CC Multijet diesel engine from Fiat.

India's answer to the west it will be a major hit in Asian & African market with high fuel economy on diesel.
I never told that Smart is superior or Nano is inferior. I just commented on the above post.
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Old 28th July 2010, 14:33   #82
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nano with CRDI !! Would request tata's to give it along with airbags and abs. With no mass whatsoever at the front of nano, drivers are in for a serious trouble!
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Old 28th July 2010, 14:39   #83
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@ A350XWB

Sorry, that over reaction was after a couple of pints, never good.

But I still disagree, within the parameters of their design, a cheap city car one meant for India and the other for Europe, the Nano is anyday a superior design. It achieves a lot more for a lot less. The only factors that the Smart has an advantage over the Nano like refinement and safety can still be incorporated into the Indian at a fraction of the Smart's price. On the otherhand the Smart cant grow into a four door, or be cheaper, and will just be even more heavier.
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Old 28th July 2010, 14:49   #84
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^ Yeah. I agree with a few of you who say that Tata should improve on safety. It feels pretty insecure while driving, just like the OMNI's. May be TATA should provide airbags and put in a 5 speed gearbox for the diesel version. The good torque would further ensure that the users can drive at higher gear within cities and extract the best possible mileage.
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Old 28th July 2010, 15:02   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shortbread View Post
@ A350XWB
Sorry, that over reaction was after a couple of pints, never good.
No offence taken

Quote:
Originally Posted by shortbread View Post
But I still disagree, within the parameters of their design, a cheap city car one meant for India and the other for Europe, the Nano is anyday a superior design. It achieves a lot more for a lot less. The only factors that the Smart has an advantage over the Nano like refinement and safety can still be incorporated into the Indian at a fraction of the Smart's price. On the otherhand the Smart cant grow into a four door, or be cheaper, and will just be even more heavier.
As told in my earlier post, my comment was solely on the engine front. I agree with your comments above. On a price/feature/space comparison, it's hard to beat tthe Nano.
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Old 28th July 2010, 15:15   #86
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What could be the purpose of a Diesel in such a small car with an excellent FE on petrol. With chances Diesel and Petrol prices coming to parity in the near future that advantage will also be lost.
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Old 28th July 2010, 16:07   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m_upreti View Post
What could be the purpose of a Diesel in such a small car with an excellent FE on petrol. With chances Diesel and Petrol prices coming to parity in the near future that advantage will also be lost.
The Nano diesel would (most probably) have the advantage of the cheapest CRDI engined city car in the country. Most other CRDI powered small cars are approximately 1L more expensive than their own petrol driven models, which is why only the big difference in the cost of diesel and the engines superior fuel efficiency are negated unless one expects the car to be used extensively.

Although there will be a difference in the cost of a diesel Nano wrt the petrol, I think the difference will not be as much. And now due to the better power/torque figures, people looking at a cheap, fuel efficient city car which can also manage the short highway trip may now also consider the Nano. At least, that's what I think.

Last edited by VeluM : 28th July 2010 at 16:12. Reason: :D
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Old 28th July 2010, 18:44   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m_upreti View Post
With chances Diesel and Petrol prices coming to parity in the near future that advantage will also be lost.
Even if the prices of Diesel and Petrol are SAME, the diesel car will have a lower RUNNING cost per km than the petrol one because of better FE
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Old 28th July 2010, 19:43   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m_upreti View Post
What could be the purpose of a Diesel in such a small car with an excellent FE on petrol. With chances Diesel and Petrol prices coming to parity in the near future that advantage will also be lost.
Quote:
Originally Posted by headers View Post
Even if the prices of Diesel and Petrol are SAME, the diesel car will have a lower RUNNING cost per km than the petrol one because of better FE
@headers

When petrol and diesel prices become similar, the cost of the diesel variant should also come in the petrol variant's range to justify the cost advantage. I am not sure how practical that is, especially assuming NANO is a low(er) margin venture for TML.
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Old 29th July 2010, 09:10   #90
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Originally Posted by gshanky View Post
@headers

When petrol and diesel prices become similar, the cost of the diesel variant should also come in the petrol variant's range to justify the cost advantage. I am not sure how practical that is, especially assuming NANO is a low(er) margin venture for TML.
I agree. Infact thats another reason why the diesel vehicles are priced more than the petrol ones of similar range.

Regarding the lower margin stuff, TATAs are big enough to pull this off and still retain their margins!

And we get a torque monster RWD for all the drifting
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