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Old 17th December 2009, 08:32   #1
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Default Is the BUMP creating a problem to Honda's Ground clearance?

Hi

i have some geniune doubt..

Honda or Fiat or toyota as a brand are well accepted cars wordwide. i am sure everyone will agree that.

but their cars like CIVIC, CITY, COROLLA, LINEA when driven in indian roads why there is a big issue related to Ground Clearance.

There might be 2 reasons.

1. These companies never take indian roads in to account but decides to sell in india
2. even if they consider indian road condition, it is quiet unpredictable as the bumps(speed breakers) made by our road development is not as per a standard. it might vary place to place, which creates this problem.

i used to have this GC problem when i used to drive my CIVIC..but nowadays i get this problem even with my i10 and for that matter even with indigo & M800 i have experienced this issue.

CIVIC spec says their GC is 170MM inspite of that you get Grrrrrrgrrrrrrrrr scratches whenever you go over a speed breaker(when we got passengers in rear seat)
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Old 17th December 2009, 09:06   #2
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The problem is that car makers provide what they feel just enough ground clearence.
The issue with them is, more the ground clearence more they will be compromising on the very basic dynamics of their design, that is fuel efficiency and stability. Most of the cars nowadays are designed in such a way that at less speed it lifts up a bit there by providing some more ground clearence but still it is not sufficient. I guess the car makers are happy to live with low ground clearence because for them fuel efficiency and stability is more important than few dents underneath your chasis.
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Old 17th December 2009, 09:09   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soumya_Ramesh View Post
The problem is that car makers provide what they feel just enough ground clearence.
The issue with them is, more the ground clearence more they will be compromising on the very basic dynamics of their design, that is fuel efficiency and stability. Most of the cars nowadays are designed in such a way that at less speed it lifts up a bit there by providing some more ground clearence but still it is not sufficient. I guess the car makers are happy to live with low ground clearence because for them fuel efficiency and stability is more important than few dents underneath your chasis.
Well, I feel that problem is with the way these humps are created. There is absolutely no standard whatsoever that is followed in India. And that according to me is the main reason for scraping the bottoms of all cars. I have seen this practically within my own gated community and we did correct the same to ensure that we don't have scraping problem.
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Old 17th December 2009, 09:28   #4
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Why blame the manufacturer !

Indians have acquired bad habit for demanding all kinds of safety features that dont even exist. "Built like a tank"???? what crap is that?

Instead, the roads should be constructed correctly.
Traffic rules should be followed correctly.

The other approach is very wrong and disastrous for the society.
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Old 17th December 2009, 09:31   #5
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I feel sad whenever I see a CIVIC struggle to go over a "BUMP"!!
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Old 17th December 2009, 10:15   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deepanonline View Post
Hi
but their cars like CIVIC, CITY, COROLLA, LINEA when driven in indian roads why there is a big issue related to Ground Clearance.

There might be 2 reasons.

1. These companies never take indian roads in to account but decides to sell in india
2. even if they consider indian road condition, it is quiet unpredictable as the bumps(speed breakers) made by our road development is not as per a standard. it might vary place to place, which creates this problem.

i used to have this GC problem when i used to drive my CIVIC..but nowadays i get this problem even with my i10 and for that matter even with indigo & M800 i have experienced this issue.

CIVIC spec says their GC is 170MM inspite of that you get Grrrrrrgrrrrrrrrr scratches whenever you go over a speed breaker(when we got passengers in rear seat)

1) GC. The measure value does matter, but one other parameter is how the high or low the body is. Theoretically, number are nice, but lets consider Innova and Altis for example.
Innova GC = 176mm
Innova Wheelbase = 2750mm
Altis GC = 176mm.
Altis wheelbase = 2600mm

Now how many times have you seen Innova scraping the speed breaker ? Altis has more chances of getting its body scrapped than Innova.
But in case of Innova, this does not happen even if Innova is fully loaded.

Here how much high or low the body is makes a difference.

2) In general I have seen that Honda cars face this issue of body scrapping more than cars from any other manufacturer.
This is because they prefer to body is overall lower than others which aids in handling due to low CofG.

3) Suspension sagging. Over period of time due to normal wear and tear, the body does come down a bit. Applies to almost all cars. In case of 800, the rear leaf spring replacement will increase GC bit, but this is applicable only if the car has run a lot of kms. ( though load and road conditions also matter ).
Example, Indigo ( not Manza ) has strut suspension at rear. After good usage, the rear does sag down leading to body scrapping. This is true in case of Baleno and Esteem also. Remember Esteem had 180mm GC, but still with full load, the does scarp. Bring Innova into picture and even with 176mm GC and full load, it will not scrap its body.

4) For one or the other reason the bumps are getting high. Really high. Discussing reasons for the bumps getting higher will be OT. But they are now also to blame.
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Old 17th December 2009, 10:18   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deepanonline View Post
CIVIC spec says their GC is 170MM inspite of that you get Grrrrrrgrrrrrrrrr scratches whenever you go over a speed breaker(when we got passengers in rear seat)
For civic, it is the soft suspension and wheel base making it so vulnerable. If you are driving alone in civic, no bumps can pose a threat - but then why you need a car in India
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Old 17th December 2009, 12:13   #8
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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
Remember Esteem had 180mm GC, but still with full load, the does scarp. Bring Innova into picture and even with 176mm GC and full load, it will not scrap its body.
Esteem has 170 mm GC. However, I have generally seen esteem's rear scraping on uneven roads. This could be due to long overhang in the rear.

Baleno coupled with lower GC also has a very unusual positioning of exhaust pipe. It travels below the rear axle and also loosens overtime due to repeated hits.
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Old 17th December 2009, 12:55   #9
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Innova does not scratch as it is meant for more number of people compared to Altis .Also The suspension is hard on Innova both because it is meant for greater number of people and also since it is much taller than Altis (If it soft than stability will go for toss at high speeds , upon braking too much play in front suspension will happen ).

I do not know why our M800 , 1996 model scrapes barely .The reason i see is since the wheel base is less i am better able to keep it at high places and thus avoid hitting the bumps .Also by the time in M800 when front wheel has crossed the hump the rear is already on the hump .
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Old 17th December 2009, 13:14   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
1) GC. The measure value does matter, but one other parameter is how the high or low the body is. .
I beg to disagree about Innova. My friend uses one, and when fully loaded (6 people and some luggage), it does scrap its belly on speed breakers. And it is really firgtening.
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Old 17th December 2009, 13:23   #11
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I have a Civic (Actually, it's my Dad's ) and I must say that it's extremely hard to drive the car over speed-humps especially when we drive it to Goa (from Bangalore)

The speed-humps you see (The ones on the highways) are made to haul speeding trucks to a stop because if the humps are smaller, they can just glide over them!

These cars are fine elsewhere but horrible to drive in India. So why blame the manufacturers? In fact, most of them have adjusted the suspension for Indian roads.

The reason as to why the Civic has low ground-clearance (despite it being 170mm on paper) is that the suspension has been altered heavily. It's soft setting improves the ride quality quite a lot, but unfortunately, the trade off is - When you fill up the car with people and luggage, the soft setting allows more travel for the springs thus dropping the height when weight is added.
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Old 17th December 2009, 13:53   #12
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Bang! 100% Accurate statement!

There is nothing wrong with the car, the problem is with the execution of these 'car breakers'! Schools, Clubs, RWA's find it necessary to put up these monstrous bumps to deter people from speeding in their vicinities..in almost most cases these aren't even authorized by the MCD...

Traffic Rules should be followed...its as simple as that...

Quote:
Originally Posted by aerohit View Post
Why blame the manufacturer !

Indians have acquired bad habit for demanding all kinds of safety features that dont even exist. "Built like a tank"???? what crap is that?

Instead, the roads should be constructed correctly.
Traffic rules should be followed correctly.

The other approach is very wrong and disastrous for the society.
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Old 17th December 2009, 14:09   #13
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I guess, we drivers also has some indirect role in making those mounteneous speed breakers! Only if we were a bit more sensible in driving we would not have seen so many high ugly speed breakers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
The reason as to why the Civic has low ground-clearance (despite it being 170mm on paper) is that the suspension has been altered heavily. It's soft setting improves the ride quality quite a lot, but unfortunately, the trade off is - When you fill up the car with people and luggage, the soft setting allows more travel for the springs thus dropping the height when weight is added.
The same might be the case for ANHC. The suspesion is soft, so at low speeds, it gives good ride quality. But, you have three folks at the rear seat, you scrape almost all the speed breakers on road. Surely, the softer suspension goes down by a good amount.

Cheers
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Old 17th December 2009, 15:09   #14
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Originally Posted by pratim View Post
I guess, we drivers also has some indirect role in making those mounteneous speed breakers! Only if we were a bit more sensible in driving we would not have seen so many high ugly speed breakers.
I am not so sure Pratim. Each one of those so called speed breakers inside Manyata are of different height, curve and width. Above all, there is one every 50ft . One can spot scrapes (lines, thin and thick, deep and surface level) on most of those speed breakers caused by numerous 2/4 wheelers. Just pointless and thoroughly irritating everytime you enter and leave the campus.
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Old 17th December 2009, 17:19   #15
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While 170mm is a paper spec, the Design of the car and softer rear suspension causes Civic to scrape more than others. The Newer facelifted Civic has got a stiffer rear suspension to sort out this problem.

Even the Swift comes with a GC of 170mm, its never scrapes, One the other end Punto with GC of 171mm Scrapes at front at times, Reason: Longer front overhang.

Last edited by .anshuman : 17th December 2009 at 17:21.
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