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Old 22nd December 2009, 13:54   #31
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Originally Posted by Zappo View Post
Nano is meant to be a car for those who endanger the life of their families by hanging on to a 2-wheeler precariously (Mostly the couple with 2 small kids).
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Originally Posted by Zappo View Post
Nano aims to provide them a respectable and safe mode of commutation at a very affordable cost. Period.

I don't know how did you conclude this. The build quality of Nano is absolutely pathetic. It's just a crumbling tin box. As my uncle correctly said that it is nothing but an Auto ricksaw heart in a CAR body.


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Originally Posted by Zappo View Post
You can not buy this car and then expect everything that other cars provide. Nano sells with the clear instructions that the ideal speed for this car is between 60 and 80. Above that the bearings will wear off very fast.
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Originally Posted by Zappo View Post
P.S.: Just so that it gets all its due credits, I must also mention here that one of the Nanos from this forum recently covered the entire Mumbai-New Delhi stretch within a record 32+ hours (a little bit here and there maybe).
Aren't these two statements contradicting each other?

Anyway, let's not rat hole on the capabilities of Nano. What surprises me is that the way this tin box was declared winner of 2010. The whole world must be laughing at us.

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Originally Posted by Zappo View Post
It never experienced any hiccups and the two occupants who are seasoned auto buffs and drive cars like the RS were absolutely gaga over this tiny wonder. Do check out their experience on the related thread on this board.
Driving Nano? Absolutely gaga? Are you kidding? Aren't you?

Last edited by mohandas : 22nd December 2009 at 13:56.
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Old 22nd December 2009, 15:10   #32
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Anyway, let's not rat hole on the capabilities of Nano. What surprises me is that the way this tin box was declared winner of 2010. The whole world must be laughing at us.
My dear Mohandas,
The Nano is a case study in Business schools in the US. In fact, my brother resides in the US (and finds something to criticize in everything Indian), specifically asked me to take him to a Tata showroom and was absolutely astonished by the car. He examined it in minute detail, seats, space, specs..... End result: he took a whole lot of pictures to email his friends and a whole lot of "Nano" caps to distribute when he got back. Right now I have some American friends visiting, and high on their list of "must dos" is see (if not drive)a Tata Nano.

And my office boy, who now has a bike, is saving up to buy a Nano! Let us recognize that automotive history is being made.
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Old 22nd December 2009, 18:27   #33
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Originally Posted by mohandas View Post

I don't know how did you conclude this. The build quality of Nano is absolutely pathetic. It's just a crumbling tin box. As my uncle correctly said that it is nothing but an Auto ricksaw heart in a CAR body.





Aren't these two statements contradicting each other?

Anyway, let's not rat hole on the capabilities of Nano. What surprises me is that the way this tin box was declared winner of 2010. The whole world must be laughing at us.



Driving Nano? Absolutely gaga? Are you kidding? Aren't you?
Mohandas, can you please post few pics of your uncles NANO. Especially the "CRUMBLING TIN BOX" parts. Also please read :

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/travel...ive-delhi.html (YetiBlog® - The Yeti®, Normally_Crazy and The Tata Nano drive to Delhi!)
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Old 22nd December 2009, 18:34   #34
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Originally Posted by mohandas View Post

I don't know how did you conclude this. The build quality of Nano is absolutely pathetic. It's just a crumbling tin box. As my uncle correctly said that it is nothing but an Auto ricksaw heart in a CAR body.





Aren't these two statements contradicting each other?

Anyway, let's not rat hole on the capabilities of Nano. What surprises me is that the way this tin box was declared winner of 2010. The whole world must be laughing at us.



Driving Nano? Absolutely gaga? Are you kidding? Aren't you?
Your Uncle's opinion on the Nano are well just..opinion, just like the opinion of :- Yogendra Pratap and Vikrant Singh of Auto Bild India, Gautam Sen and Bob Rupani of Auto India, Bijoy Kumar Y and Srinivas Krishnan of Business Standard Motoring, Aspi Bhathena of Car India, Sirish Chandran and Bertand D’souza of Overdrive and Vardhan Kondvikar and Girish Karkera of Top Gear India.

And the opinion of the hundreds of thousands of people who have lined up to buy this car. And BTW, I have met an owner of Nano and this guy( though a very humble person) happens to be a very big and well-off entrepreneur and he too was absolutely in love with Nano. After having sat inside his Nano and having owned 800 in past, IMHO it is much better car than the 800 irrespective of its price.

Though there is no point of refuting drivel, can you please inquire your uncle whether it is wise to compare the Nano with Auto rickshaw.

To make it easy for him and you, I have provided the specifications of the both vehicles.

Tata Nano:-

1) A four wheeler
2) With all sheet metal(japanese) body panels(from caparo).
3) Seating for four individual with seat belts and protective crumple zone and other safety measures. And have also passed the European Norms.
4) Windows.
5) Doors.

Engine:-
Quote:
2 cylinder petrol with Bosch multi-point fuel injection (single injector) all aluminium 33 horsepower (25 kW) 624 cc (38 cu in)
Value Motronic engine management platform from Bosch
2 valves per cylinder overhead camshaft
Compression ratio: 9.5:1
bore × stroke: 73.5 mm (2.9 in) × 73.5 mm (2.9 in)
Power: 35 PS (26 kW; 35 hp) @ 5250 rpm[1]
Torque: 48 N·m (35 ft·lbf) @ 3000 +/-500 rpm[1]
With supplers such as Dürr, Behr, ZF Friedrichshafen AG, Visteon,Vibracoustic,Ceekay Daikin/Valeo,TRW,Saint-Gobain,Mahle,Johnson Controls,ITW,Deltar,INA,GKN,Freudenberg,Ficosa,FAG ,Kugelfischer,Denso,Delphi,HSI AUTO,Continental AG,Bosch,Texspin

Auto rickshaw:-
1) A three wheeler.
2) Covered with a cloth.
3) Uncomfortable Seating for three individual with no seat belts and no protective crumple zone and no safety measures of any kind.
4) No Windows.
5) No Doors.

Engine:-
Quote:
Power: 8.5ps @3000rpm IDI type 4 point cradle mounting
Torque: 2.1 kgm @ 2200 rpm
Cubic Capacity: 416 cc
Engine Mounting : 4 point cradle mounting
4-gear differential
Fork type: suspension
Clutch: dry single plate
Electric feed pump

And Tata Nano costs around 30k more than the Auto-rickshaw.

There is a reason why almost all the Newspapers, General Magazines(Including Time, Economist, BusinessWeek, Fortune,Forbes, Business 2.0,Newsweek, Der Spiegel) and almost all the Auto-Magazines have done story on Tata Nano.

There is a reason why likes of Carlos Ghosn are following suit and developing a similar car, and likes of Daimler are interested to tie up with Renault because of their expertise in smaller cars.

There is a reason why VW have bought stake in Suzuki and are also developing smaller car. Toyota and Hyundai are also doing same.

Which small car made these giants to get interested in a less lucrative and highly competitive small car segment ?

Right now a used Tata Nano is selling for premium, I wonder what is stopping your uncle to make some quick money.

edit: Can you please post a video of your uncle( his opinion and expectations) and his Nano ?

Last edited by anmol2k4 : 22nd December 2009 at 18:39.
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Old 22nd December 2009, 19:00   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anmol2k4 View Post
Tata Nano:-

1) A four wheeler
2) With all sheet metal(japanese) body panels(from caparo).
3) Seating for four individual with seat belts and protective crumple zone and other safety measures. And have also passed the European Norms.
4) Windows.
5) Doors.
Sorry to say this Nano didn't pass European norms and that test was conducted by TATA to journalist to show that Nano can pass European norms and that too is was modified Nano ,not the one we get.

Nano is far more safer car when compared to bikes were even an minor accident will turn fatal.Just think of a lorry hitting you from behind(not very high speed say about 40Km or less) when you drive a bike inside the city and when you drive a Nano.Nano would be safer in this situation when compared to bike which would be a fatal.

so don't compare Nano safety with any high end cars.In simple words Nano replacement for bike not for cars.

Many people said it sounds like an auto and I bet that they never ever have seen a Nano.It doesn't sound like a auto and when it passed near me at a good speed of 40 Km it was silent.

Nano deserves the ICOTY.
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Old 22nd December 2009, 19:05   #36
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Originally Posted by Zappo View Post
You can not buy this car and then expect everything that other cars provide. Nano sells with the clear instructions that the ideal speed for this car is between 60 and 80. Above that the bearings will wear off very fast. The underlining point here is the recommended speed. You can not try and rev the motor skyhigh and then say it sounds like a vaccumm cleaner. The same holds true if you try and compare it with a M800 which even in its most basic form costs 2Lakhs at the least.

So please do keep the perspective in line before you air your expectations or rancour with this car.
Well, M800 is in a different league alltogether than Nano. Nano is purely for city use and the seat comfort is not very good for long distance. The space efficieny is such that it will do city duties very well for a family of 4 or even 5.
Tata never meant Nano for highway drives and the small petrol tank may be an indication for this.

But when we bring M800 into picture, the engine is much smoother than Nano, and can cruise better on highways. We have done 640 kms drive from Mahabaleshwar to Vadodara in one day. 4 people + luggage. Cant think of doing the same in Nano.

My point is that M800 can cruise all day long at 100 kmph without sounding harsh. It can do duty on highways too.

At the end of the day, Tata has given us a nice option. If somebody is buying a car only for city driving, then Nano is one of the best options. And Tata has spent a lot of manpower in designing this car. Most of the work was done in India. This is what I appreciate.


Quote:
Originally Posted by anmol2k4 View Post
1) Your Uncle's opinion on the Nano are well just..opinion, just like the opinion of :- Yogendra Pratap and Vikrant Singh of Auto Bild India, Gautam Sen and Bob Rupani of Auto India, Bijoy Kumar Y and Srinivas Krishnan of Business Standard Motoring, Aspi Bhathena of Car India, Sirish Chandran and Bertand D’souza of Overdrive and Vardhan Kondvikar and Girish Karkera of Top Gear India.

2) And the opinion of the hundreds of thousands of people who have lined up to buy this car. And BTW, I have met an owner of Nano and this guy( though a very humble person) happens to be a very big and well-off entrepreneur and he too was absolutely in love with Nano. After having sat inside his Nano and having owned 800 in past, IMHO it is much better car than the 800 irrespective of its price.

3) To make it easy for him and you, I have provided the specifications of the both vehicles.
And Tata Nano costs around 30k more than the Auto-rickshaw.

4) There is a reason why likes of Carlos Ghosn are following suit and developing a similar car, and likes of Daimler are interested to tie up with Renault because of their expertise in smaller cars.

5) There is a reason why VW have bought stake in Suzuki and are also developing smaller car. Toyota and Hyundai are also doing same.

6) edit: Can you please post a video of your uncle( his opinion and expectations) and his Nano ?
1) Here the views of ACI are not present. IIRC, ACI played a big role in establishment of ICOTY. It is not present in ICOTY since last year. The views may or may not change with inputs from ACI, but I think we missed out AJD and Hormazd Sorabjee.

2) I dont own Nano, but have driven one. Both the cars have their own different capabilities. It all depends on requirements. To me Nano is not as good as M800 because we do take our M800 on highways occasionally and here M800 is better than Nano. All this depends from person to person.

3) Have you factored in running cost and maintenance costs ?
A three wheeler can be repaired almost anywhere, but is the same true for Nano also ?

Why not have a thorough comparison with M800 also ?

4) Renault an expert small car maker ? Leave it to Suzuki. Renault is nice as far as cars above Swift segment goes. Renault has tie up with Bajaj for small car.

5) Are you sure that they are jointly right now developing a car. My guess is that a new car engineered by Suzuki will be badged as VW-Suzuki joint engineered. VW is not an expert in small cars neither do they have a good power plants that can work well in India.
Leave it for another day.

6) Why exactly are you asking this question ?


I think we can unanimoulsy agree on one thing that Tata has achieved something good considering that it was ( and it is ) a truck maker. All this was mostly done inhouse, so thats what we must appreciate.

Lets leave M800 vs Nano vs Auto for some other day.
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Old 22nd December 2009, 19:18   #37
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Originally Posted by Sudan_NFS View Post
Sorry to say this Nano didn't pass European norms and that test was conducted by TATA to journalist to show that Nano can pass European norms
It depends upon who you are listening to, for example the like of New York Time and Autocar.co.uk seem to disagree with you.

This is what AutoCar said on the test. :-
Quote:
The Tata Nano has passed current European front and side impact standard crash tests.

The £1800 economy car was subjected to tests at the MIRA test centre last week under the supervision of an inspector from Britain’s Vehicle Certification Authority.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudan_NFS View Post
and that too is was modified Nano ,not the one we get.
Sorry but the one tested is the same one that is sold in India, Europe will not get the one tested rather they will be getting the Europa version.

This is what Mira(They tested the car) have to say about the test. :-

Quote:
The Nano has been purposely designed with a modular body capable of receiving additional structure to enable it to meet stricter European safety rules, scheduled for adoption as legislation in India in three years time.
source :- Tata Nano Passes Crash Tests at MIRA
http://www.mira.co.uk/Newsletter/M_MIRA-Newsletter7.pdf
http://www.mira.co.uk/Newsletter/M_MIRA-Newsletter8.pdf


Why do you think Tata tested the version which will not be sold in Europe for the norms which will be adopted very soon in India ?

Last edited by anmol2k4 : 22nd December 2009 at 19:24.
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Old 22nd December 2009, 20:06   #38
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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
Well, M800 is in a different league alltogether than Nano. Nano is purely for city use and the seat comfort is not very good for long distance. The space efficieny is such that it will do city duties very well for a family of 4 or even 5.
Tata never meant Nano for highway drives and the small petrol tank may be an indication for this.
Well that is your opinion and when I look back, our experience with 800 wasn't very positive. We used to find it to be very cramped and highly uncomfortable with joke for an AC.

And while have Tata made it clear that the current Nano is meant for city and not for the highways, that does not make the 800 any safer for the highway use. And it won't stop nano users to drive it on highways along with the 800, the auto rickshaws and the tractors (usual sight at Noida-Gr.Noida expressway).

Also as you may or may not know, that they have a much better diesel engine ready and will be launched in coming years. I have read somewhere that the logic behind launching the petrol engine only is because Tata's past experience with petrol engine cars whose sales were cannibalized by the much more VFM diesel cars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
But when we bring M800 into picture, the engine is much smoother than Nano, and can cruise better on highways. We have done 640 kms drive from Mahabaleshwar to Vadodara in one day. 4 people + luggage. Cant think of doing the same in Nano. My point is that M800 can cruise all day long at 100 kmph without sounding harsh. It can do duty on highways too.
I will let the following videos respond to that.




And kindly also see videos of the following Youtube user(s), they did the unthinkable (Delhi to Mumbai).

YouTube - sambigfoot's Channel

Quote:
1) Here the views of ACI are not present. IIRC, ACI played a big role in establishment of ICOTY. It is not present in ICOTY since last year. The views may or may not change with inputs from ACI, but I think we missed out AJD and Hormazd Sorabjee.
Now you are just nitpicking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
2) I dont own Nano, but have driven one. Both the cars have their own different capabilities. It all depends on requirements. To me Nano is not as good as M800 because we do take our M800 on highways occasionally and here M800 is better than Nano. All this depends from person to person.
The owners of Nano have refuted that with videogenic evidence of Tata Nano doing the unthinkable. Also your comment here explains why you may (a possibility though, I am not saying that you are) be biased towards Tata Nano.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
3) Have you factored in running cost and maintenance costs ?
A three wheeler can be repaired almost anywhere, but is the same true for Nano also ?
Well I haven't done that nor have you and while neither of us own an Auto we should refrain to comment on those aspects. Still, no matter how easy it may be to fix Auto or the Jugaad that doesn't change the fact that these things are probably the most dangerous vehicles on road. And with arrival of Nano, there is no reason why we should let these things endanger our lives.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
4) Renault an expert small car maker ? Leave it to Suzuki. Renault is nice as far as cars above Swift segment goes. Renault has tie up with Bajaj for small car.
You should inquire Daimler why they think that way about Renault, or go through their product portfolio.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
5) Are you sure that they are jointly right now developing a car.
According to media reports, Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
My guess is that a new car engineered by Suzuki will be badged as VW-Suzuki joint engineered.
That is a guess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
VW is not an expert in small cars neither do they have a good power plants that can work well in India.
They happen to be largest Automobile company in the world. Also you should take a look at the largest selling small car of all time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
6) Why exactly are you asking this question ?
Because I am curious person and have some doubts also I want to know his uncles perspectives directly from its source.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
Lets leave M800 vs Nano vs Auto for some other day.
Then why did you ask for the comparison ? :-

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
Why not have a thorough comparison with M800 also ?

Last edited by anmol2k4 : 22nd December 2009 at 20:14.
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Old 22nd December 2009, 22:31   #39
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Originally Posted by anmol2k4 View Post
I will let the following videos respond to that.


And kindly also see videos of the following Youtube user(s), they did the unthinkable (Delhi to Mumbai).
YouTube - sambigfoot's Channel
Dude, those outlier videos prove nothing. Sad, but it is a fact that the TML has become a laughing stock in the automobile world. Even, those patriot indians think twice before they buy any tata product.

Anyway,anything is possible in India. We make Rakhi Sawant a star, Nano is the winner of ICOTY 2010

----
What is outlier?
Well, Wikipedia says:
In statistics, an outlier is an observation that is numerically distant from the rest of the data.
Outliers can occur by chance in any distribution, but they are often indicative either of measurement error or that the population has a heavy-tailed distribution.

Last edited by mohandas : 22nd December 2009 at 22:38.
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Old 22nd December 2009, 22:44   #40
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Note from Support: Post deleted. Personal attacks are against Board rules. Any further breach may attract heavier moderator intervention

Last edited by theMAG : 23rd December 2009 at 08:37.
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Old 22nd December 2009, 22:59   #41
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Arguably Tata Nano is one of the best things that has happened in Indian (and I dare say - world) automobile history, and demands a place of its own.
Whether the ICOTY is justified may be debated, as there are better/powerful/safer/good looking cars around, but to see the use of such sharp language (especially towards other bhpians) in tbhp is sure disappointing.
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Old 22nd December 2009, 23:06   #42
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Sad, but it is a fact that the TML has become a laughing stock in the automobile world.
How is it a 'fact'? The reality is that you have not posted anything meaningful or of substance, nor any information, reports, or facts, just your biased opinion that you keep repeating.

I think you are just trolling/flame-baiting.

Quote:
Patriotic, oh u bet I am, dont care which country or carmakers u worship but think twice before posting an ignorant comment like TML being the laughing stock of the auto world, maybe your household but I shall refrain but commenting on that.
Yeah, its what someone rightly called being a Resident Non-Indian.

Last edited by chncar : 22nd December 2009 at 23:09.
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Old 23rd December 2009, 03:09   #43
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Originally Posted by mohandas View Post
Dude, those outlier videos prove nothing. Sad, but it is a fact that the TML has become a laughing stock in the automobile world. Even, those patriot indians think twice before they buy any tata product.

Anyway,anything is possible in India. We make Rakhi Sawant a star, Nano is the winner of ICOTY 2010

----
What is outlier?
Well, Wikipedia says:
In statistics, an outlier is an observation that is numerically distant from the rest of the data.
Outliers can occur by chance in any distribution, but they are often indicative either of measurement error or that the population has a heavy-tailed distribution.
Outlier you say? . Let me provide you with a context

Do you have enough data to claim either that video or those who vouch by it are outliers?

On the contrary I have enough posts and facts to prove that you have an outlier opinion in this thread and forum.

Interesting isn't it?
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Old 23rd December 2009, 05:37   #44
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Feel happy for the NANO. This award is really great.

Remember seeing PALIOs with ICOTY stickers on the rear glass, the NANO with similar sticker would look really cool
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Old 23rd December 2009, 11:54   #45
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Originally Posted by mohandas View Post
Dude, those outlier videos prove nothing. Sad, but it is a fact that the TML has become a laughing stock in the automobile world. Even, those patriot indians think twice before they buy any tata product.
OT: I hope you are having fun trolling on the forum. At the very least, I hope you are not cutting classes and logging on to teambhp. I would also recommend the Yeti's blog on using correct english while posting. I am sure you didn't mean "those patriotic Indians" and were just trying to say something else because it does seem a trifle unkind at first read.

As far as the Nano is concerned, it deserved the iCOTY, it genuinely is a clever piece of engineering and design.

OT again: Pea Brained Nitwit - A combination of words for the day.
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