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|28th December 2009, 10:59||#46|
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Sidindica. I first thought of sending you a PM but them thought its better to make it a post. I do appreciate the efforts you are taking in discussing these things with your friends / relatives and helping them out sort this issue. (truly. no hidden meanings) Please do tell them to contact FIAT FIRST helpline. They seem to be doing a good job these days. If the rust is of concern i'm sure they can get things corrected. They could also get some help with contacts with higher ups in FIAT through PUG.
Probably you have set higher expectations and thats why most people here replied. AS i mentioned earlier i replied just because the thread was started by you.
If you had done a google on complaints about rust on new car you would probably not have created a new thread on this topic. About the mechanical clutter. Well i think we need to discuss about why this clutter comes in the first place. IS it really because of a quality issue with the engine components/materials used? I am in no way competent enough to comment on that. But talking about a BIG quality issue before even knowing if it is one is not what a responsible group like us needs to do.
About these threads being HOT. I have been here for over 3 years now (IIRC) and if you really look at the posts here there has always been "for" and "against" posts by people with a liking towards a particular brand (something that will remain in one way or the other till the end of mankind) but it becomes a heated debate only when someone speaks "for" FIAT. Its right after that post that every thread turns 'RED' with someone or the other getting offended. This thread was bound to be a "RED" one based on experience. Thats exactly why my first post called for more authentic data before we start off with all speculations and opinions.
About the quality issues. What i have to say could not be acceptable to all but i feel that every car has its pros and cons. If you compare the cars in close price brackets probably you would get much more features on these cars and that must be what is making them sell whatever they are doing inspite of the very bad brand name. Well probably FIAT could not match the price lists if the spent more on quality checks. (For those who came in late i believe thats exactly how TATA manages to give you dirt cheap VFM cars. They come out with 'beta' versions and improve them based on customer feedback. The huge money saved on QC/R&D translates into the lower showroom prices). All i am asking is for more authentic data before we bash up a brand that is trying to build its reputation in the country.
All said and done i dont think anyone would disagree that FIAT makes good cars that could stand up with other cars higher up in the segment or even a higher segment. FIAT makes cars with soul. And lets give these poor souls a chance. But if we have real data to prove that there is indeed a BIG or SMALL quality issue. Lets not stand back from BASHING THEM OUT
I'm Out of here. Sid... see you on other threads.
PS: The very fact that no other mod/support/D bhpian has even replied to this thread seems too big a coincidence. Probably i should start a thread on if there is a big quality lapse that is overlooked by us.
Last edited by gemithomas : 28th December 2009 at 11:18.
|28th December 2009, 10:59||#47|
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Fiat is not happy for what it has inherited from Tata and hence the plastics issue. I blame Tata for such things. Next, about rust issue, I dont find it just a normal case. I think Fiat India also silently replaced some other issue ( dont remember which ), but that is infact good and an appreciated move.
Link to thread here : http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...-recalled.html (Clutch Slave Cylinder replacement in Linea - Cars Recalled)
About QC, there is no denying that some errors are there. I think Amit's GP had one of then engine mounts lose. So some QC problem is there, but again if they are working with Tata, initially IMHO, they will take time in accommodating with each other.
I am not a resident of coastal area. My friend's father was in Mumbai for more than 2 years and had Zen ( original one, but facelifted to look like Korean ). No such issues of rust.
One of our neighbors are in Chennai for last 4 years, they have Honda City, but no such rust issue.
I would like to update myself, so if there are rust issues in coastal regions in ALL cars operating there, do post here.
Fiat is not selling Linea and Punto in high numbers. And even then the rust issue is cropping up.
Isn't this deviating from the topic ? The point here is not why Sidindica was called or why people call others who have above average knowledge about cars.
But now as you have posted this, I will take liberty to post a few more reasons why people call others instead of Helpline. IMO, reason are :
a) Helpline people. They are very efficient in diverting calls to respective i.e. nearest dealers. This is done in majority of cases. And the helpline people are not aware of mechanicals of cars.
b) Dealer. They generally are not good. Manpower they employ is even worse. This is true for most of the brands. Here taking a seperate opinion is common sense given the person contacted knows a bit more about cars.
What A.S.C can do :
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ol-engine.html (Diesel engine oil in petrol engine)
A.S.C. also tend to quote for higher prices and more job than required. A thread on how tata charges money for CATCON cleaning and Clutch replacement exists on TBHP itself.
Last edited by aaggoswami : 28th December 2009 at 11:12.
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|28th December 2009, 11:32||#48|
Join Date: Feb 2009
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If the thread starter thinks that rusting is a perenial problem, then how about this?
(Go through all the posts in the above thread)
Many SX4 owners have complained of strong vibrations in their cars, isn't this outrightly disgusting to have vibrations in a petrol car in this modern era and that too in a premium sedan? Isn't this an equally perenial problem as rusting? The sad thing is Maruti is yet to rectify.
I would have been happier if the thread starter has started a thread for this too.
This thread is started in haste, I would request the moderators to take appropriate actions.
I'm not here to defend Fiat, just wanted to say somebody with a D-Bhpian status should have given a thought before starting such threads, as these are problems which all the manufacturers face. Picking up one and bashing it hardly doesn't portray a nice picture for our community.
Last edited by CliffHanger : 28th December 2009 at 11:39.
|28th December 2009, 11:44||#49|
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We had a Contessa Classic bought in the late 80's that died due to rust in the late 90's - I know, we could have taken better care, but it was replaced with a Peugeot 309GL (around '95). And then we had a Santro (2005), and most recently, a Getz (2009).
We live in Besant Nagar, Chennai - for non-Chennaites, it right on the beach. Cars in the neighborhood includes a few Marutis, Innovas, etc. None of these cars have a rust problem. The only place I have seen rust in our cars (except the Contessa) is on the brake discs.
A neighbor bought a Punto 1.4 Dynamic 3 or 4 months ago. Though not a member here, I email him a few threads from Team-BHP that may help him keep his Punto better. And yup, he has noticed rust. I am not in Chennai now, so will try to get him send me a few pics, or will post some when I get back.
Funny part, a colleague who has a pretty old Palio has never spoke of such problems. Infact, I love driving his car, though it is an underpowered 1.2...
Let me make it clear- I love Fiat's cars. Especially the steering feel, and overall sense you get of sitting inside a secure tank or something. But I do get a perception (not from Team-BHP alone, from real world contacts too) that the Punto and Linea may have their share of problems that should not be there.
Every car maker has their own list of problems - Marutis rattle, Hyundais are over priced, Tatas... I can go on. So should we take this as a Fiat characteristic? I don't think Sid or anyone here is trying to say Fiat is bad. Fiat is undeniably a company that makes good, better, excellent cars, but their current line has a scope for improvement. Which I hope they do- I want to drive a 100+ BHP Punto sometime...
Last edited by ph03n!x : 28th December 2009 at 11:48.
|28th December 2009, 11:53||#50|
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Well fellows I have been following this thread from day 1, and it has taken a lot of self control on my part not to jump in.
I fortunately own a Oct 2003 fiat palio S10, and unfortunately i live in Mumbai ( Coastal area) , I can vouch for the fact that my s10 has absolutely no vibrations , or faling plastics ( not even fading) even the side skirts and spoiler are intact. While searching for used Palio GTX in mumbai , i test drove 9 GTX's. Only 1 of these specimen had rusted badly, rest were rock solid. I think to a large extent vibrations from internal plastic parts might be originating from bad roads, or entusiatic driving ( not slowing on pot holes and speed breakers) though my car is pin drop silent.
Being a Palio 1.6 Guzzler owner for 7 months I would accept that spare availibility and A.s.s competence are horrible ! Buttttt atleast these 2001-2003 make Palio 1.6 GTX/S10 are made to last physically !! They are real tanks. though you can question their electrical/electronic reliabilitry.
I also had a 98 esteem before the S10, door pannels, boot and a few places on the floor had rusted badly.
My father-in-law has a 2002 Santro again it has some rusting issues.
I have seen call centre Indica's rusting badly.
Even my family has a few marutis which show sighns of rusting after being faithful for almost 10 years.
(I have come across almost all car brands which face rusting issues after 4-5 years of rusting)
I have seen few Puntos and Lineas in my office ( to be exact 5 nos) , non have absolutely any signs of rusting. Though one linea owner was complaining of some pannel gaps and vibrations from interior fit. ( He said it started after his Mumbai- Kohlapur drive - he coud not diodge a big pot hole).
My S10 goes for a detailed cleaning and waxing every 30 days (washing 350 INR + wax polish 500 INR), it is parked in the basement and securedly covered. I never cover it when its wet.
I am never denying or defending FIAt ( an not paid for it), an just trying to put across that let us give FIAT credit and appreciation for what good it does , and BASH for whatever it lacks for.
But lets not write-off the brand or try and be over critical, PUNTO/ LINEA are excelllent cars in their own right and in my opinion PUNTO in VFM and radically styled. Rusting in Lineas may be a one off incident or problem in a single batch of cars. Buttttt they are fantastic cars !
Palio GTX /S10 are not for faint hearted , its for epople who love cars and understand/ appreciate what they get in return from the cars- driving bliss.
The point am trying to make is we all represent a reliable and reputed group -TEAMBHP - people all over the country scout the forum for automobile advices . Let us not affect minds of prospective buyers with such "HOT THREADS" , if owners are experienceing problems with Linea /Punto they acn put up in their wonership threads or technical sections with photos. Let us take it on case to case basis and with proper back ground information.
Am sure the mods are qualified and rational enough to understand that we are not here to promote XYZ brand and BASH/KILL ABC brand.
I have seen thread here where a prospective buyer had pointed out panel gaps in his ready for delivery i-20, but we all took it as a one-off case.
Could we have reacted same manner to PUNTO ????
|28th December 2009, 12:09||#51|
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Just googled on rust in new car ... results on Page 1 had complaints of the following cars (in the following order):
Page 2 again had:
Page 3 had a City complaint again.
For a common man, seeing the above list will make him think that any car is prone to rust, even if it's the pricey City, forget Fiat.
|28th December 2009, 12:19||#52|
Join Date: Jun 2007
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I am fed up!!
In the past few months, I am increasingly getting fed up with many of the threads being floated. These threads repeatedly bring up the same point for discussion. A few examples are:
1. Honda ripping customers
2. Tata cars having poor quality
3. Poor *** by Skoda
4. Poor ***/ poor quality by Fiat
5. Maruti's extremely great customer service
6. Why is the Palio not selling and why Fiat should stop production
7. How Tata cannot be trusted to launch a fully loaded MPV for upwards of 14 lakhs
8. Toyota legendary reliability
What I observe is that its the same people repeating the same points on various posts threads and may not even ever have experienced a car from the respective brand. Most of the times, the discussions are purely subjective (many a times, born out of preconcieved notions/ bias/ a 10 year old experience). We should all collectively think as to what we are achieving out of all this. Is there any value in such discussions or are we just flogging dead horses?
|28th December 2009, 12:28||#53|
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I think intend of Sid’s thread was to point to FIAT that people nowadays expect better fit and finish especially when they spend well over half a million INR.
Small plastic issues(irritants) could have been sorted out with its vendors.
Long back when I was with FIAT on Palio assembly line there was an issue of head lamp fogging (Water /moisture getting inside the headlamp & tail lamp assembly during shower test). The vendor QA cell woke up when cars were held by Final QA department. The vendors were taken to task but still lot of cars went into production with those defective headlamp assembly.
At Fiat minor Quality issues have been there some thing or the other always. With new generation of cars Fiat should have been more proactive to give a better product to its customers as they are ready to pay.
|28th December 2009, 12:29||#54|
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|28th December 2009, 12:30||#55|
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I feel Mods should allow only owners to report the issues or problems faced in the respective car they own!
Just because 2 cars of a certain brand had rust issues, someone else shouldn't jump the gun & create a Thread declaring that Fiat lacks Quality control!
Such threads with a generalised notion sends a wrong message to all who access this well known & supposed to be reliable Auto forum!
I am also surprised that Sidindica perceives mechanical clatter as a issue!
|28th December 2009, 12:53||#56|
Join Date: Sep 2009
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Hello friends, I am one of the Linea owners who had reported about the rust and clatter of 1.4 FIRE motor. I don't think the clatter is a very big issue because on starting the car the engine is very silent sometimes similar to a Honda. But after running a few kms this thing develops clatter that is just similar to a diesel. I have noticed this many times especially after a small trip when I am trying park the car. I have been surprised by the change in behaviour of this engine before and after running 6-7 kms. I have used my Palio for 7 years and I am still using it but I don't experience any clatter like this. I was expecting this clatter to go away after the run in period but now I don't think it is going to happen. Since I have used my Palio for the last 7 years I always loved Fiat I went for Linea even after having a very bad experience with RF Motors when I was trying to go for Punto. I had made a thread about this. Then I stretched my budget as much as I can and went for Linea. Many of my relatives advised me to go for NHC or Fiesta. I advised them back about the goodness of Fiat vehicles but now I have been cheated. My car has many problems within a month including rusting, jamming of hand brakes, hard clutch, car veering to the right side when the steering is straight, AC vent below the right front seat not working and as a Palio owner these things are hard for me to believe. Quality standards of the Linea is extremely low compared to the Palio. Dealers are cruel to the cars. I have got numerous scratches on my desmodronic key near the switches. I have got scratches in the dash where one layer of plastic has chipped off. I have a clearly visible scratch on the odometer. My rear AC vent was broken during delivery and they fixed it with feviquick. I have dirt on the front seats and the roof. My car had run 173 kms at the time of delivery. But in the midst of all these bigger problems how can I pay attention to these small ones. I really doubt whether my Linea will stand for 7 years like my Palio. Now I hate Fiat. All the love that they generated through the Palio has been destroyed by Linea. I really need a new Linea instead of the one that has these many problems. At present my Linea has run only 383 kms. My Palio even after these many years does not have any rust. I compared my Linea and Palio side by side and there are clear evidences of low quality in Linea. Both Fiat and the dealers are cheating customers and I really doubt how did they sell these many cars! As I have said in my thread only God knows how many Lineas on the road have this rusting. No one is going to open up the beeding to check these things. When I checked the manual they have written a list of things that they have done for preventing rusting. And in the manual I found grammar and spelling mistakes!
|28th December 2009, 13:07||#57|
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The comment from a real owner and one who made a complaint is quite telling. From his location it seems he is not even a proper coastal area dweller. And you dont expect these even at immediate sea shores from a car from this class.
Indeed there is something amiss at Fiat, hopefully limited to some batches. Quite disheartening to people who loved their cars.
|28th December 2009, 13:17||#58|
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I am closely following this thread from Day 1. Was tempted to write from day 1 but had to resist my temptation.
I am writing now as i am one of the affected party due to rusting and my thread is also being discussed here in this forum.
Let me explain. First i noticed rusting near the door lock 3 months back. This was reported to TASS and the area was chemically treated for anti rust and was painted.
After 3 months, i noticed rusting in the areas where the rubber beading covering the upper panels of the door.
I was upset and frustrated. Wrote a mail to FIAT for which FIAT acknowledged the fact that there is a defect in the door and the reason for rusting is the faulty rubber beading.
The rubber beading have a metal rod running across for support. This metal rod had caused the rusting.
FIAT was prompt in changing my doors, painting to factory perfection.
The good thing is that FIAT acknowledged their fault in writing and also gave me an assurance in writing that they would send their Quality Analyst from pune to check the entire car for rusting problem.
FIAT also promised me in writing that they would give me a Guarantee/Warranty certificate after the QA's visit.
It is true that rusting caused quite lot of heartburn and frustration that a 8 lac car has developed rusting in just 6 months of ownership.
The fact is that FIAT acknowledging the fact that rusting is due to defect from their side and their proactiveness in rectifying was what impressed me a lot.
Please refer my thread, there are quite lot of parts i changed at the slightest instance of doubt about their quality. FIAT changed them Free of cost with no questions asked.
How many other manufacturer's would do this ?
I owned an Alto and a SX4 before. I never had access to Maruti Quality team. The only point of contact were the authorised dealers. I dont have any issues with Maruti. Just thought would give a comparison between the two as i have owned cars from both brands.
I am not saying that Linea/Punto are made of high quality materials. Cost cutting is evident in many a places. Let us also acknowledge the fact that selling a sedan like Linea at a cost which is 1.5 lakh cheaper than ANHC requires some amount of cost cutting.
Let us also acknowledge the fact that FIAT is willing to listen to its customers and are ready to rectify their mistakes ASAP unlike other Car manufacturer's who put the blame back on the customer.
You may also refer to my thread for an unbiased reporting on FIAT. I have expressed my anguish when they have not responded as well praised them for their sincerity and promptness.
Regarding the clatter, i notice that Linea's petrol engine is slightly noisy. The engine is very silent intially. After a few Kms, the engine noise increases gradually as the rpm goes up.
I am out of this thread now. I still remain a big fan of your's for your scoop and excellent articles. All the very Best friend.
Last edited by bnzjon : 28th December 2009 at 13:20.
|28th December 2009, 13:20||#59|
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I think enough has been said on this topic & this is now redundant with other threads which discusses issues in Punto & Linea.
So please use the common issues threads for common problems or post a new thread for any specific issue.
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