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Old 11th February 2009, 09:40   #316
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well IMO Toyota should not worry to much.Innova is a tried and tested vehicle it has got a very good brand image+resale value etc etc i don't think the tata's or the mahindra's can match it.Toyota dint become the #1 in the world by selling peanuts,they know how to get their customers.
It is a rather simplistic to brand any car manufacturer as a stagnant entity. Your contention that 'tata's or mahindras' can never catch up to the Japs reeks of denigrated mindset which do not belong to the present times. Tata's like Hyundai's and others are constantly evolving. You will find forumites who have switched over from Honda to Hyundai and are proud of their decision. Each morning brings a new reality and the old has to give way to the new.

Tata's have the accumen of LR and Jag to help them in future endeavours and the product like Xover will be way different in refinement levels from that of the Grande which was pre-LRJ.
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Old 11th February 2009, 12:48   #317
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i dont want to totally condemn the Indian car manufacturers
well how many of them do crash tests?
maybe for the vehicles which are sold abroad but IMO we as indians we should be the priority of these brands.
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Old 11th February 2009, 15:23   #318
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more details are given at zigwheels Search for "time_to_CROSS_over" in site
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Old 11th February 2009, 16:22   #319
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Originally Posted by vinaydas View Post
i dont want to totally condemn the Indian car manufacturers
well how many of them do crash tests?
maybe for the vehicles which are sold abroad but IMO we as Indians we should be the priority of these brands.

Well TATA for sure does, in fact they have their own Crash test facility.
And I think Indian cars are tested here :- Welcome to ARAI - SIAT emission certification structural dynamics advanced engine testing SLED facility CAE industry
And when it comes to safety, I have seen enough Suzuki's crushed like a tin can to think that Japanese(Or others) manufacturers care much about our safety.
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Old 11th February 2009, 18:29   #320
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All carmakers Indian, japanese, korean or otherwise have an obligation towards safety, yet all of them skimp on this where possible. Its understandable when they are in a very competitive position and are on lean margins, they prefer not to take risk and hike car prices in the name of Airbags and what not.
But makers like Toyota and Honda are guilty despite having a dominant position in their segments. The City has always been a run away success for Honda with people willing to wait months before taking delivery. They could have easily added Airbags to their spec. list, a hike in the price of the City for incl. airbags would have easily been swallowed by Honda customers. The same goes for the Innova as well. Instead they prefer to bask in the glory of having airbags in the top spec models, mention this in all the ads and press releases and skimp these important features when it comes to the lower variants. What these MNCs dont have balls to do is take the risk and force local vendors to supply this and ensure volume of scale. Even Indian cos. like Maruti could have done this much earlier, especially considering the market strength they have. This would have changed the market as well, forcing others to follow suit.
In this respect kudos to the likes of Tata for thinking of establishing local sources for airbags etc. thus making it affordable to everyone.
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Old 11th February 2009, 19:16   #321
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I agree with Sidindica. (Man i must congratulate you on the awesomes info you keep dishing out).

After owning 2 generations of Indica and having seen how much Indica was improved, I was have great hope on Vista Indigo to be my new wheels. But sadly I now have decided not to buy any car from TATA until and unless they improve the quality.

My reasons:-
Vista – Good Design………. ???
Smart Interiors
But bad - Fit n Finish.
Panel Gaps
Huge Wheel arks

Grande – Very Macho looking
But Bad – Fit n Finish.
Panel Gaps
Bad Interiors
Bad ergonomic
Straight A pillar looks silly for such a smart MUV.

Guys the M&M team has done much better job on improving their quality compared to the Tata’s.
Its seems like Tata does great on their car designs where as the engine & Fit n Finish is much better with M&M.
I must add TATA design with M&M Fit & Finish will surely compete with the Japanese & European companies. Otherwise these two companies will sink without great margins. Eg:-TATA Fund crisis.

Just Dreaming:-
Does Fiat have a 1.8 or 2lts MJD engine with 150bhp & 320kgm Torque?
If the answer is yes then the new Xover (or what ever they plan to call) with the MJD beauty from Fiat will give Innova a run for its survival
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Old 11th February 2009, 22:15   #322
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinaydas View Post
i dont want to totally condemn the Indian car manufacturers
well how many of them do crash tests?
maybe for the vehicles which are sold abroad but IMO we as indians we should be the priority of these brands.
Tatas were the first to do crash test of the cars in India, not the fancied Japs or Koreans. They started testing in late 90s. M800 is considered to be the most unsafe car. So lets not belittle our Indian collegues
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Old 13th February 2009, 10:23   #323
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That is one smart looking MUV. I wish Tata all the success.

Agreed that Tata does not have the class fit finish nor are they very reliable (like the Japs). I had an Indica for 5 years and did over a Lakh kms travelling far and wide. Not once did my car fail me. Yes, there were some problems with the electricals but never anything serious.

There have been cases reported on T-BHP about the lemons sold by reputed car manufacturers like BMW, Skoda, Mercs. Well these car makers have been around for a while so ideally they should sell cars which are perfect but they don't.

Tata's on the other hand have been around for a decade and considering the short time span and the learning curve I think it's no mean achievement.

Unfortunately Sumo Grande has not worked, but that's OK. It's part of the learning curve.

Let us not belittle their efforts.
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Old 14th February 2009, 04:10   #324
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Lets face it. India is a bunch of very wise buyers. You just don't feed us us rubbish and expect us to be happy about it. Think about the Ford Escort and Peugeot. Wisecracks from the west tried selling us phased out cars. We know what fate they met. Tata on the other hand made out pretty well. Please bear in mind that it didn't have an automobile legacy like the Mercs and BMWs to fall back on. It has simply carved out a space for its own. That does speak something for them. Honestly I do believe they have learnt their lessons and have learnt them well.
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Old 14th February 2009, 08:34   #325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vishdes View Post
Lets face it. India is a bunch of very wise buyers. You just don't feed us us rubbish and expect us to be happy about it. Think about the Ford Escort and Peugeot. Wisecracks from the west tried selling us phased out cars. We know what fate they met. Tata on the other hand made out pretty well. Please bear in mind that it didn't have an automobile legacy like the Mercs and BMWs to fall back on. It has simply carved out a space for its own. That does speak something for them. Honestly I do believe they have learnt their lessons and have learnt them well.
u feel india is a bunch of wise buyers?? sadly i dont think so, including me!

you are saying we dont buy phased out cars? what about the 800, alto (largest selling car in india!), estilo, accent, octavia......?

we are ready to pay a premium just for the brand.... in the name of reliability! consider toyota, honda or skoda. a civic costs 6.5 lakhs in dubai, here we pay th double. skoda is a 'poor man's car' elsewhere, here we have tagged it as a premium brand, hence the pricing.
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Old 19th February 2009, 13:29   #326
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Not sure if this has been posted before. Here are almost unmasked pictures of Indicruz testing in europe.

Tata Safari/Indicruz Spy Photos - worldcarfans
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Old 19th February 2009, 13:57   #327
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nice pics...
from the side it almost looks like a innova.
but indicruz is one i am waiting to have a look... supposed to be based on 2.2 safari platform and price range between 9-10L.. to compete with xylo.. should have been a little less.
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Old 19th February 2009, 16:06   #328
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this new version does have considerably big front and rear overhangs!!

i think might jus take out the sporty appeal of the old safari, maybe they are targettin the innova and xylo customers. which only means the safari will really have no competitor in that segment.
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Old 5th March 2009, 19:32   #329
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Came across a rendition of the X-over on ZIGWHEELS.

Buy New Cars, Used Cars, Auto News and Reviews India - Zigwheels.com
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Old 6th March 2009, 14:38   #330
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On my way to office, I saw a LR Freelander - the starting landrover and a thought struck me. Why would Tata invest in a new Safari when they have a readily available replacement vehicle for the SUV segment in house? Simply concentrate on the Cross Over (whatever it might be called) and introduce the freelander when the time comes to replace the Safari. They can build it in India to keep the price low and you get a first class vehicle without duplicating the investment.
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