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Old 18th September 2009, 17:27   #571
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Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
yes, and that the reason it is the cause of heart attacks for many of its owners!

not trying to offend you buddy, but the QC dept of tata is really sick at this moment. believe it or not, in that segment, safari is the most unreliable vehicle with the poorest fit & finish.
Couldnt agree more with you Raj.. Competion is a little better ofcourse in QC
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Old 18th September 2009, 17:33   #572
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Although I do not own one (I intend too), but I have ridden in many and also driven them. They are nowhere comparable to the so called 'agricultural object' which you may refer too. The Safari has always been known and reputed to be one of the most comfortable cars to ride and drive. This can also be vouched for by people who have experienced it first hand. Which other SUV within the same price band (you make hike it up a few notches) gives you the same level of comfort?

Yes. True that the plastics leave a lot to be desired, but then one would still buy the Safari knowing the pros and the cons. These are minor things that one can live with. As I always like to believe, buying a Safari is more of a 'heart' thing than the 'head' thing!
Yep nothing beats the Safari ride (not even SUV's twice the price or more.) and with the wheel going under this is set to improve.

Yep buying Safari is a heart decision, but later condiering the situations it has worked for me the head also agrees.

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Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
yes, and that the reason it is the cause of heart attacks for many of its owners!

not trying to offend you buddy, but the QC dept of tata is really sick at this moment. believe it or not, in that segment, safari is the most unreliable vehicle with the poorest fit & finish.
Agreed, but then the TCIC version was quite reliable - I am in its 9th owner and have taken mine though hell, and it has backed me each time.

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Couldnt agree more with you Raj.. Competion is a little better ofcourse in QC
Mahindra QC is a bit better I guess, but not much, Tata Pastics Sourcing and process for Electical fixtures are to the blame here i guess.
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Old 18th September 2009, 17:38   #573
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raj_5004 : yes, and that the reason it is the cause of heart attacks for many of its owners!

.. but the QC dept of tata is really sick at this moment.
@Raj, let us leave the rants to the affected owners. Also, it will help if the health of the concerned QC department is pictured in a more objective way.

And yes, I do see that you are not happy with the fit & finish of the vehicle. Let us leave any discussion of that aspect of this yet to be released Safari till the time the vehicle actually reaches the market, instead of speculating what the future holds, based on what was seen in the past.
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Old 18th September 2009, 18:07   #574
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Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
yes, and that the reason it is the cause of heart attacks for many of its owners!

not trying to offend you buddy, but the QC dept of tata is really sick at this moment. believe it or not, in that segment, safari is the most unreliable vehicle with the poorest fit & finish.


Raj - I agree with what you are trying to say. The Safari tends to be more unreliable as a vehicle than its only competitor Scorpio, but i don't subscribe to the way you put it.

I am a comparatively new member of the forum but have still seen you landing in online arguments with others with your thoughts about safari. I think most members, especially those who are regular to Safari and Scorpio specific threads know your strong views against the Safari. There is no point in airing your views again and again and at the slightest drop of a hat, when you know that such comments have the potential to take the whole discussion to a rather unwanted and off topic direction.

Last edited by rrsteer : 18th September 2009 at 18:11.
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Old 18th September 2009, 18:52   #575
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Originally Posted by condor View Post
@Raj, let us leave the rants to the affected owners. Also, it will help if the health of the concerned QC department is pictured in a more objective way.
i was myself an affected owner buddy!

btw, my reply was a response to suman's, rideon's & frank's post that tata needs a new QC dept... and its true.

Quote:
And yes, I do see that you are not happy with the fit & finish of the vehicle. Let us leave any discussion of that aspect of this yet to be released Safari till the time the vehicle actually reaches the market, instead of speculating what the future holds, based on what was seen in the past.
of course, i agree.

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Originally Posted by rrsteer View Post

I am a comparatively new member of the forum but have still seen you landing in online arguments with others with your thoughts about safari. I think most members, especially those who are regular to Safari and Scorpio specific threads know your strong views against the Safari. There is no point in airing your views again and again and at the slightest drop of a hat, when you know that such comments have the potential to take the whole discussion to a rather unwanted and off topic direction.
have you only seen my posts in which i post my views against safari? i can show you numerous posts in which i have recommended a safari or said good things about it! but when the time comes, i am equally blunt to give negative opinions too, that applies even to the scorpio.

i think that what a public forum is meant for. btw, rahul & ACM are among the rare safari owners who agreed to me!

anyways, lets end this OT discussion. if Mods feel my post is inappropriate, please delete my post.

Last edited by raj_5004 : 18th September 2009 at 19:10.
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Old 18th September 2009, 19:46   #576
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It more or less looks like MPV than SUV, so it should be new Indicruz since new Safari in next 1 year won't make any sense. Let TATA bring trouble free Safari first then and bring new Safari. At least right now physically Safari is best product except technical stuffs/electricals etc. Many people get crazy and buy Safari blindly and also because its cheap! I hope TATA do lot of testing of this new product and then launch.

Also TATA must learn to bring stable product which can serve at least 4 years without changes instead of keep changing every year which is really hurting resale value. In resale market Safari has no takers and it is prooved white elephant! I hope new product will come out from this bashing

But still I want to own one!

Ravi.

Last edited by ravibhat : 18th September 2009 at 19:48.
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Old 18th September 2009, 20:37   #577
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well.. when i said they need to have a qc department - meant that in all probabilities the production guys themselves must be doing the quality checks..., In an organization I worked earlier, this was the case, and the result.. .numerous quality defects.

Indian organizations still do not understand the importance of a dedicated quality department, and the result shows.. sadly tho....

But in the same vien, with the hope that now with the fiat partnership, tata does learn something from them - the same is quite evident in the new indica vista.. which is quite beautifully done...

Also I read somewhere that the vitara is being launched with the 1.9 ddis engine, if suzuki is gonna get that, then I hope the safari gets that too.. it will be great combination....
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Old 18th September 2009, 21:19   #578
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Presently the Safari is easily the best SUV one can this side of 10 lacs, but one cant deny the decade long gestation period filled with faults, powerpant upgrades, quality issues, customer complaints etc..etc... before it got to the stage where it is today. Yet there are a lot of rough edges on the Safari. Also a decade of mistrust have shown on Safari's sales and people would prefer to buy lesser alternatives due to the paranoia created by Safari's history.
To taste success in the future Tata will have to get their products right from day 1, Period.
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Old 18th September 2009, 21:42   #579
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Originally Posted by shortbread View Post
Presently the Safari is easily the best SUV one can this side of 10 lacs, but one cant deny the decade long gestation period filled with faults, powerpant upgrades, quality issues, customer complaints etc..etc... before it got to the stage where it is today. Yet there are a lot of rough edges on the Safari. Also a decade of mistrust have shown on Safari's sales and people would prefer to buy lesser alternatives due to the paranoia created by Safari's history.
To taste success in the future Tata will have to get their products right from day 1, Period.
I guess TATA is learning their lessons, starting from Indica Vista and Nano. Let wait and see how the new safari (and indicruz) comes about.
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Old 18th September 2009, 21:59   #580
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Originally Posted by an_and View Post
Also I read somewhere that the vitara is being launched with the 1.9 ddis engine, if suzuki is gonna get that, then I hope the safari gets that too.. it will be great combination....
I think it would be logical for tml to move to 1.9ddis albeit remapped to suit safari. I sincerely hope to see it in a year or two
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Old 21st September 2009, 12:29   #581
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Last night had a talk with the TATA guys, the XOver (crossover) is ready for launch and will be launched in next 15-20 days, close to Diwali I guess. The Xover will compete with the Innova. The new or upgraded Safari will be launched only next year.
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Old 21st September 2009, 15:26   #582
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Helloo All,

I've read the last... 5 pages of this incredibly long thread, and have a few things I'd like to say.
Actually, I have a few things I'd like to tell the top brass at Tata, but I don't know how, so if any of you can help, I'd sincerely appreciate it.

My name is Maurizio, aka "Tatazucca" from "Tata Club Italia Elephant 4x4".
I bought my 3.0 DICOR Safari new in November 2006 and clocked 80.000 Km yesterday!
I'm also an "avid" (enthusiastic, albeit careful) offroader, and have carried out a few very discreet mods to my Safari.

I've heard of interesting news about the new Safari, and hope Tata will not change the Safari's "soul" from "proper 4x4" into an urban SUV.
As she is now, 3.0 or 2.2, the Safari has a wonderful rail chassis which, mated to very efficient suspension, make her a wonderful motorway cruiser (my speed 110km/h, others will speed in excess of 130Km/h cruising) yet she is ready to show anyone just how good she is offroad.

Two months ago TataClub had its 10th yearly National Jamboree, and we forded a small stream to go up a mountain... we had our fun, it started raining, we pulled tarpaulins and sunscreens for the rain, had lunch, toured some more and by the time we made our way back to that ... "small stream"... it had engorged and we had water up to the bonnet !!!

Well, it was "do or die" so I did, forded the stream with water around my rear view mirrors in Low 2nd and gunned the engine (you don't want any water sucked up backwards through the exhaust) and I made it !!!
Here I am coming out, it was much deeper as I crossed left to right, so the Safari is a GREAT 4x4 !!!

If only her QC were as good as a Toyota KDJ... she'd be selling like peanuts !

So, what would I like to see in the new 2010 Safari ?
ENGINE: I've been told of new engines, 3.0 litre V6 in both petrol and TDi form.
That's great, provided they keep the 2.2 TDi for lower tax in Europe; but any serious offroaded will demand the V6 (actually, I'm sorry they ditched the 3.0, but that's another story...)(Could we at least obtain a 16V head for the 3.0 DICOR? pleeease ?)

Gearbox: the current 5-speed may be a strong and versatile unit, but 5 speeds are too few for fast road, and not enough for offroading. I'd like to see a strong, 6-speed manual box (as in LR Discovery) with a 5 / 6-speed autobox as optional (I'd jump ath the opportunity for a 6-speed auto !!!)

Rear Differential: as is, the Dana44 is "Limited Slip" at 30%... really only good on slippery tarmac, but close to useless when offroading... Is there any way to have a 60%LSD Dana44, as optional equipment? One would gladly pay, especially because it would be a "backwards compatible upgrade" to all the 2.0, 3.0, 2.2 Safaris already out there.

Rear Disc Brakes: The rear drum brakes aren't too bad, but as Jeep have the same Dana44 rear axle with disc brakes... why can't we? Incidentally, disc brake pads are so much smaller to produce, store, ship, carry as spares... logistics are greatly improved and so is braking performance.

Roofrack: I don't know about the Indian market, but here in Europe the Safari is not qualified to carry any more than 30Kg on the roofrack... that's because only the front half of the roof actually has luggage rails, while the rear half has those funny plastic "handles" that aren't really much good. There are a few "DIY" solutions by TataClub members here in Italy, but, as they say, "at your risk and peril"... So how about a strong roofrack to carry not only the family luggage, but a tent and sleeping kit, or maybe even a jerrycan or two?

Spare wheel: The door-mounted spare IS a pain to get on and off, and I do agree one will get his shirt dirty, BUT I have seen how difficult it is for an offroader with a Hyundai Terracan and the guy had to lay down in the mud just to free the shackle from grime and grit and mud... ugh... So yes, the new solution will make for a neater-looking and better performing Safari, until you have to change that flat tyre.
May I suggest a mechanism operated through a hole in the rear bumper, with the use of the jack handle, so one doesn't have to lie down and get dirty to lower the spare wheel?

Quarterlights at the Front windows: Comfortable as they may be, I find the windows of the front doors to be very big and prone to excessive vibrations when travelling with in the typical "one inch only" position; they vibrate, cklatter and make all sorts of noises. If the front windows were rectangular (like the rear windows) with an adjustable triangular quarterlight, it would be the ideal solution.

AND NOW... THE EXPLORER PACKAGE

Dedicated to all those with serious offroading in mind, I'd like to propose a number of aftermarket accessories that would make the Safari even more rugged and OFFroadworthy:
1) The already mentioned 60%+ LSD, as a complete Dana44 unit, to allow for a direct replacement of the original unit; as such, the original Dana44 could be returned to Tata for refurbishment and resold through SPARES.
A similar upgrade for the Dana30 front differential

2) The already mentioned rear disc brake conversion.

3) A +2 inch raising kit, made of 4 dampers (shock absorbers) tougher and longer, and 2" taller coil springs for the rear, together with the minor ancillaries required; this would raise the Safari 2" allowing for safer 50cm fords.

4) A "Tata-approved" snorkel for the air filter (here in Italy you can't fit a snorkel without DOT (Government) approval, and they will approve only OEM add-ons), which will fit to the right of the vehicle for 2.0 and 2.2 Safaris, and to the left for the 3.0 models.

4a) A Tata-approved "fording kit", comprising the above mentioned snorkel, plus "breathers", i.e. 1/8th nich, watertight hose running from the differentials (two) gearbox and transfer case to a safe position within the engine bay or fuel filler cap recess, to prevent water from being sucked in through the OEM breather caps already in place.

5) A 2nd battery with charging regulator, to be placed in lieu of the sandard air filter box (snorkel obligatory) for Heavy Duty requirements.

You will notice these are all items readily available, in one form or another, by 3rd party manufacturers.
What I'd like to see is Tata acknowledging the great capabilities of the Safari and the success she has had in Europe (Italy and Spain, most certainly!) and help the Enthusiast Clubs give even better publicity of a 4x4 we all love by ... making our lives a little easier...

If I want to "snorkelize" my Safari, I first have to find a snorkel that will fit my car (none are listed as compatible to the Safari), then I have to pray, beg and grovel with the local DOT authjorities to approve it, because there is no official Manufacturer's authorisation, and I'm helpless...

Thanks for reading all this, I wish I could drive my way to India (can't just yet on 20 days' summer break, 20 days just not enough) I know my Safari could most certainly make it !!!

Again, thanks for your time, and sorry for the looong post, but I just had to get this message through.



Maurizio Pescatori aka "Tatazucca"
this is where I work
NDC Web Site - Home
and this is who we are
Tata Club Italia click on the link, click on "X Raduno" and scroll down to see the links to the pics
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Old 21st September 2009, 17:04   #583
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Good to hear from you, Maurizio.

I have heard about your club and have been following it.

Also I had seen one German enthusiast taking the Safari into a mud pond over the bonnet! He had snorkels I think. Needless to say I was convinced about the Safari. He did this with the 1.9TD!

Tata Safari is an amazing off-roader in the right hands. Unfortunately the 'right hand' part is also rare. Anyways, I am not.
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Old 21st September 2009, 18:11   #584
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Originally Posted by ravibhat View Post
It more or less looks like MPV than SUV, so it should be new Indicruz since new Safari in next 1 year won't make any sense. Let TATA bring trouble free Safari first then and bring new Safari. At least right now physically Safari is best product except technical stuffs/electricals etc. Many people get crazy and buy Safari blindly and also because its cheap! I hope TATA do lot of testing of this new product and then launch.

Also TATA must learn to bring stable product which can serve at least 4 years without changes instead of keep changing every year which is really hurting resale value. In resale market Safari has no takers and it is prooved white elephant! I hope new product will come out from this bashing

But still I want to own one!

Ravi.
Your last line states it all,

Yes the faults are there, so are the positives (best ride this side of 20L) space, crusing capability, etc, that just can't be taken away.

There are so many horror stories, and yet there are so many positives as well, in the Safari.

If a guy like me after 9 years of using the safari still wants to take on the new one in his dreams (stops short to buy at the appropriate time) there must be something in it afterall. It meets some needs for some people all to well. It just not suitable for others.
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Old 21st September 2009, 19:06   #585
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Originally Posted by mpescatori View Post
=
My name is Maurizio, aka "Tatazucca" from "Tata Club Italia Elephant 4x4".
now its time we guys out here appreciate the way you've used your safari the way it should be. really glad to see an international safari lover.
Hope TATA gets to see your post. I'm sure they've addressed part of your list for the upcoming safari if not completely.
Keep posting about your offroad adventures. matter of fact I'm sure we'd like to see more pix from your Offroad trip.
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