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Old 22nd January 2010, 11:22   #211
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Why is everyone going on about indian fuel?? They sell the 1.8 TSI dont they?

The way i see it, the only consideration could be the cost, but then they get the 12% cut in excise duty by using an engine below 1.2l anyway so at worst it should balance out if not be slightly cheaper to use the 1.2l TSI instead of the 1.6l engine. The 1.2 has more torque and better fuel efficiency than the 1.6. thats the engine we SHOULD be getting but unfortunately arent

Edit: forgot to add, @harishnair, 1.5 sec in the real world is a LOT my friend

Last edited by Jaggu : 22nd January 2010 at 11:31. Reason: Back to back posts, please wait for moderator approval to edit the original post.
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Old 22nd January 2010, 11:58   #212
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Originally Posted by vulpine101 View Post
That is a lame excuse given by many Indian manufacturers.
We have 1.8TSi s here BMW Audis sophisticated engines here, then whats the problem.
Better thing to do is ask the customers to get fill the petrol from reputed pumps.
They do face issues.

Also with a above ten/fifteen lakhs car you can always ask them to use premium petrol etc. Its not e big issue. But you cannot ask Polo owners to do so.
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Old 22nd January 2010, 12:17   #213
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Originally Posted by Trapezio View Post
... But you cannot ask Polo owners to do so.
Good point. Imagine an already over-priced small hatch with the additional requirement to ONLY use premium petrol !! VW can as well conspire with the Union bosses to force a factory lockup. Remember, all these firangees are flocking to India only because they are not doing great business elsewhere on this planet. And the only thing that sells by truckload in India are cheap (to run and maintain), fuel-efficient hatches.
So, instead of asking the average Amar/Akbar/Antony to go for premium petrol, why not ask the unscruplous petrol mafia / govt to improve on their ethics act.

Last edited by WindRide : 22nd January 2010 at 12:20.
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Old 22nd January 2010, 12:18   #214
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Originally Posted by adit1329 View Post
cost of the 1.2 which releases in mid march is around 6 to 6.5 lakhs on raod for bangalore....
Volkswagen cannot sell even 100 cars per month if they price the Polo like that.They are not blind to have missed what happened to Jazz from a company which already has a good presence in India.

My guesstimate is the lowest version of POLO will start from 3.99 lac.
This is not an impossible task..already Volkswagen has achieved 50% localisation and they have plans to increase this to 75% in 2 years.

There was TOI article in another thread about how Skoda is planning to reduce Fabia prices to around 3.5 Lac, which means Polo which is supposedly a notch higher in terms of brand value will be priced around 50k extra.
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Old 22nd January 2010, 13:48   #215
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Originally Posted by radiokidb View Post
Why is everyone going on about indian fuel?? They sell the 1.8 TSI dont they?

The way i see it, the only consideration could be the cost, but then they get the 12% cut in excise duty by using an engine below 1.2l anyway so at worst it should balance out if not be slightly cheaper to use the 1.2l TSI instead of the 1.6l engine. The 1.2 has more torque and better fuel efficiency than the 1.6. thats the engine we SHOULD be getting but unfortunately arent

Edit: forgot to add, @harishnair, 1.5 sec in the real world is a LOT my friend
+ 1. There are so many TSI engines running here in India.

I again googled for some info,the 1.2l TSI on POLO is a 4 cylinder engine where as they normal 1.2 which will be seen on the Indian polo is a 3 cylinder engine.

Could that be a reason for not launching the 1.2tsi here in India ?
I mean to keep the costs low a non turbocharged 3 cylinder engine ? ?
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Old 22nd January 2010, 14:02   #216
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Turns out the Diesel mill isn't the same as the Fabia's 1.4 L PD. This one's a 1.2 L Common rail that pumps out 75 BHP apparantly. That's a positive move. I can't stand being in traffic next to a Fabia diesel
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Old 22nd January 2010, 14:12   #217
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Originally Posted by Daewood View Post
Volkswagen cannot sell even 100 cars per month if they price the Polo like that.They are not blind to have missed what happened to Jazz from a company which already has a good presence in India.

My guesstimate is the lowest version of POLO will start from 3.99 lac.
This is not an impossible task..already Volkswagen has achieved 50% localisation and they have plans to increase this to 75% in 2 years.

There was TOI article in another thread about how Skoda is planning to reduce Fabia prices to around 3.5 Lac, which means Polo which is supposedly a notch higher in terms of brand value will be priced around 50k extra.
IMO "lowest version of POLO @ Rs. 3.99Lakh" is impossible to achieve for a company like VW even with 100% localization!! Also Fabia @ Rs. 3.5 Lakh will never happen!!

C'mon guys Polo will be competing with likes of i20, Punto and Jazz and being German it has all the rights to be seen priced equal with i20 or rather slightly higher than i20.

IMO if at all they bring down Fabia's cost, it wont be less then Rs. 4.5 Lakh (base) and Polo base will start at Rs. 5 Lakh to 5.25 Lakh (base).
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Old 22nd January 2010, 14:36   #218
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Originally Posted by HammerHead View Post
IMO "lowest version of POLO @ Rs. 3.99Lakh" is impossible to achieve for a company like VW even with 100% localization!! Also Fabia @ Rs. 3.5 Lakh will never happen!!

C'mon guys Polo will be competing with likes of i20, Punto and Jazz and being German it has all the rights to be seen priced equal with i20 or rather slightly higher than i20.

IMO if at all they bring down Fabia's cost, it wont be less then Rs. 4.5 Lakh (base) and Polo base will start at Rs. 5 Lakh to 5.25 Lakh (base).
Punto base version (1.2) sells at 4 lakh..then why not polo base version at the same price. Figo is being launched at 3.7 Lac!!!

I20 prices are higher beacuse the production is not entirely in Chennai unlike i10..and also Hyundai always has this habit of inflating prices by around 30K and waiving it off as discounts. The 30k discount on i10 has been there for past 12 months.

Fabia base version already sells at 4.4 lakh on road for past 3 months, which means ex-showroom price is effectively only 3.9Lakh!!!!

The year 2010 is going to be a great year for B-segment buyers..
These prices make the Tata NANO AC at 1.9 Lac OTR look overpriced
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Old 22nd January 2010, 14:48   #219
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you can not compare i20 price with polo and sell in India.... i20 is over priced.. Polo can't compete with punto on built, riding interior and every thing.... VW makes Polo 5L+ and they will increase the stock in showroom only... same like Jazz..
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Old 22nd January 2010, 14:53   #220
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Originally Posted by WindRide View Post
So, instead of asking the average Amar/Akbar/Antony to go for premium petrol, why not ask the unscruplous petrol mafia / govt to improve on their ethics act.
Excellent point, and worth making. I was going to say it myself. For too long now, the manufacturers and the consumer are forced to dance to the tunes of a third party who will not bear its responsibility beyond setting the tempo of the music!
The government is doing nothing beyond legislation to ensure that fuel supplies are clean and consistent no matter which corner of the country or which bunk in a city, town, or village you go to.
Why would a manufacturer risk being shamed by poorly performing technology because the fundamental premise of their offering is being subverted by something not in their control?
Case in point being the issues with Skoda TSi engines. Worldwide, Skoda had one of their best years ever in 2009, with sales up over 57% year on year in Germany alone! But here its a different story, and poor quality fuel, I suspect, is one of the woes that are literally gumming up their works.
They take the risk of offering something cutting edge, and bear the brunt of "saar, not working saar!"
Any wonder then that the Polo will come to us tried and tested, and ho-hum as heck.

Last edited by crackingride : 22nd January 2010 at 14:55.
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Old 22nd January 2010, 14:53   #221
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If they price polo below 5.5L I am sure the interior quality is going to be bad. They will use cheap plastics for interior, probably low cost and low quality spares. If it costs 5.5L+ and the ensure very good interiors, plastics, spares then I would prefer to pay a little higher for the car than to start replacing every possible spares after 3 years of usage. I guess that's why Honda Jazz costs so much.
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Old 22nd January 2010, 15:22   #222
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Originally Posted by vnk77 View Post
If they price polo below 5.5L I am sure the interior quality is going to be bad. They will use cheap plastics for interior, probably low cost and low quality spares. If it costs 5.5L+ and the ensure very good interiors, plastics, spares then I would prefer to pay a little higher for the car than to start replacing every possible spares after 3 years of usage. I guess that's why Honda Jazz costs so much.
+1 to that.
If paying a little extra gives me the VW renowned build quality, I would pay it. VW should atleast give an option to get a full fledged german car, in terms of quality and reliability, at a price , ofcourse.
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Old 22nd January 2010, 15:39   #223
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Originally Posted by Neil.Bhujbal View Post
+ 1. There are so many TSI engines running here in India.

I again googled for some info,the 1.2l TSI on POLO is a 4 cylinder engine where as they normal 1.2 which will be seen on the Indian polo is a 3 cylinder engine.

Could that be a reason for not launching the 1.2tsi here in India ?
I mean to keep the costs low a non turbocharged 3 cylinder engine ? ?
They are launching a the three cylinder 1.2 in the base petrol model. it makes 75 hp and this engine should be be dirt cheap.

What i was saying was instead of launching the higher end petrol variant with a 1.6 engine, they could use the 1.2 TSI instead, it would be approx te same cost.

As for the diesel, its a new gen 1.2 TDi engine, downside being its only got THREE cylinders. From reviews on the net, its been rated as just mediocre. Refinement is lacking because of the three cylinder arrangement.

I dont think its launched in europe yet so india probably wont get it until the second half of the year. I wonder if the fabia will get the same engine? It'll save them in the long run because of economies of scale
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Old 22nd January 2010, 15:42   #224
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Originally Posted by HammerHead View Post
C'mon guys Polo will be competing with likes of i20, Punto and Jazz and

Not with a 1.2 liter 3-cylinder engine, it wont.
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Old 22nd January 2010, 15:46   #225
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If it's cheap interiors and 1.2 ltr 3cyl engine, then they are going for the Wagon R, Santro market.

And in next phase they will target the Alto, 800 market with the Up.

they clearly plan to be in the volumes game, I guess. There may be nothing for the 'hatch for the performance enthusiast' here.

Although I think that the latter is where a significant section of the informed, middle-income clientale is/will head towards.
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