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Old 23rd January 2010, 15:43   #241
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Looks like VW is repositioning the Fabia to a lower price point so that the Polo can occupy a higher niche. It makes sense because there no way the VW Polo could take on Maruti in the cheap hatchback segment. Not for another 5 years at least.

The Polo will probably compete with the I20, but with inferior engines, lesser equipment and no automatic, the Polo is bound to lose. Unless VW has plans to release this car with either the 1.2 TSI, or a DSG gearbox, or both, they might as well pack their bags and go back to Germany.
Perhaps better build quality would count for something? Until DSG issues are resolved, it would be a mistake to offer it in such a large volume segment. Plus we don't know what kind of electronic goodies are in the car, they may not provide steering mounted audio controls, but there may be a host of electronic safety features. Whatever said and done, the fabia feels like a tank. I expect the Polo to as well. Even with an "inferior" engine, I'd put my money on the polo.
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Old 24th January 2010, 12:45   #242
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I'm not so confident about the "better build quality" and the host of "electronic safety features". VW has severely compromised the Polo in order to cheapen it for the Indian market. So far only external changes are known to us: cheaper headlights and tail-lights, cheaper ORVMs without indicators, and rear drum brakes instead of disc brakes (bye bye safety). On the inside a bunch of features have vanished: climate control, side airbags (more safety gone), touchscreen head unit etc etc. So if they're willing to make all these obvious changes in order to bring the price down, how can we be sure they haven't used thinner sheet metal, less effective crumple zones, less damping or lower quality mechanical components?

Reminds me of a Nike store I stepped into yesterday. I picked up a pair of socks and asked "what size is this?" to which the salesman replied, "it fits all sizes, Sir". Upon turning over the packet I discovered a size chart which clearly labelled the socks as "large" within a range of sizes. Upon pointing that out to the salesman, he replied "Sir, in America people think about size, but in India this size fits all customers, so we don't have other sizes."

You can't trust companies like these that try to pass off substandard goods in India thinking that we are a nation of easily fooled consumers. Just because it's got a VW badge doesn't mean it's the same VW that you get in Germany.
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Old 24th January 2010, 14:29   #243
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You can't trust companies like these that try to pass off substandard goods in India thinking that we are a nation of easily fooled consumers. Just because it's got a VW badge doesn't mean it's the same VW that you get in Germany.
+1 to that.

I don't think that VW brand alone would make the Polo sell. The Indian customer spending 5 to 7 lakhs on a car would be educated about the pros and cons of the car he/she is buying. Only a brand name should not help sell a car. I hope VW does not take us Indians for a ride and gives us a car that is VFM for the price we pay.
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Old 24th January 2010, 15:20   #244
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Spoke to VW product head in Dec who told me Polo sedan with auto tranny will be here end 2010. This is a tentative plan and no plan to offer auto/DSG in the hatch.
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Old 24th January 2010, 17:58   #245
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VW is trying to imply that German cars are more safer than other manufactures by providing safety features as standard.

Great job VW!!

So the Higher version might have a 1.4 engine or even bigger!
I am more worried about turning radius and front / rear leg space ! :o

Any comments ???
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Old 25th January 2010, 00:12   #246
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THe Polo 1.6 liter...does it have the same engne as the Indian Jetta P?
An article in autocar said that the engine is one generation newer than the Jetta engine. Current engine in the jetta makes 100 BHP. The new 1.6 supposedly makes 105 PS
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Old 25th January 2010, 07:39   #247
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Originally Posted by theEnd View Post
I'm not so confident about the "better build quality" and the host of "electronic safety features". VW has severely compromised the Polo in order to cheapen it for the Indian market. So far only external changes are known to us: cheaper headlights and tail-lights, cheaper ORVMs without indicators, and rear drum brakes instead of disc brakes (bye bye safety). On the inside a bunch of features have vanished: climate control, side airbags (more safety gone), touchscreen head unit etc etc. So if they're willing to make all these obvious changes in order to bring the price down, how can we be sure they haven't used thinner sheet metal, less effective crumple zones, less damping or lower quality mechanical components?
You were seriously expecting to get side airbags, climate control (the one on Swift is not a climate control; its just a manual control with a calibrated LCD display for your kind info!), touch screen head unit etc from VW Polo at 5/6 lakhs in India?
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Old 25th January 2010, 07:50   #248
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You were seriously expecting to get side airbags, climate control (the one on Swift is not a climate control; its just a manual control with a calibrated LCD display for your kind info!), touch screen head unit etc from VW Polo at 5/6 lakhs in India?
I never said 5/6 lakhs. Would be happy to pay 10 lakhs for a properly equipped Polo if it had a good engine too.

I noticed that the Punto also has climate control, electrically operated side mirrors and a bluetooth head unit with steering mounted controls. None of this is available in the Polo (according to VW's brochure).

I'm quite sure my Swift Zxi has climate control. It functions similar to the climate control on my Dad's Civic, by increasing and decreasing the fan speed and compressor to keep the temperature constant (as per my setting). Or does the Honda Civic also come with a "manual control with calibrated LCD display"?
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Old 25th January 2010, 10:07   #249
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I never said 5/6 lakhs. Would be happy to pay 10 lakhs for a properly equipped Polo if it had a good engine too.

I noticed that the Punto also has climate control, electrically operated side mirrors and a bluetooth head unit with steering mounted controls. None of this is available in the Polo (according to VW's brochure).

I'm quite sure my Swift Zxi has climate control. It functions similar to the climate control on my Dad's Civic, by increasing and decreasing the fan speed and compressor to keep the temperature constant (as per my setting). Or does the Honda Civic also come with a "manual control with calibrated LCD display"?
Okay... Now the question is how many people in India is ready to pay 10 lakhs for a good hatch. My feeling is that it won't be many.

I have not opened up the Honda Civic ac and I do not know whether its like the Swift. About the Swift I know it from the supplier itself and so I assume he knows what he is talking about.
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Old 25th January 2010, 10:41   #250
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Reminds me of a Nike store I stepped into yesterday. I picked up a pair of socks and asked "what size is this?" to which the salesman replied, "it fits all sizes, Sir". Upon turning over the packet I discovered a size chart which clearly labelled the socks as "large" within a range of sizes. Upon pointing that out to the salesman, he replied "Sir, in America people think about size, but in India this size fits all customers, so we don't have other sizes."

You can't trust companies like these that try to pass off substandard goods in India thinking that we are a nation of easily fooled consumers. Just because it's got a VW badge doesn't mean it's the same VW that you get in Germany.
That reminds me of what happened to me.
Recently bought a pair of Shoes from a famous german company.
It got soiled during the rains and had to wash it. While washing i misplaced the shoelace.
Went to the same showroom and asked for a new pair of laces.
He said we don't sell laces seperately!!!

Does that mean i have to throw away my 1 month old shoes which i bought for 3.5k? Later had to visit another American company showroom who are actually 3 times bigger(revenues) than the german one and buy laces, but the length is not exactly the same..

These German companies need to be customer friendly too..harping about "GERMAN QUALITY" alone will not bring success in any market.
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Old 26th January 2010, 18:51   #251
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Originally Posted by Trapezio View Post
You were seriously expecting to get side airbags, climate control (the one on Swift is not a climate control; its just a manual control with a calibrated LCD display for your kind info!), touch screen head unit etc from VW Polo at 5/6 lakhs in India?
Why do big companies take india for granted ? It is something i cannot understand ! In many international websites ,you can select customised pages for even countries like thailand, Srilanka and brazil .. but you cannot find one for India . You would think India would be more important for business in asia than srilanka !

Many electronic(comp parts) products cannot be registerd after you buy them because there is no option for india. (It is changing in the last few years though) .

The same is true for cars. @ Trapezio .. why cant we expect these options?
Hyundai Accent 3 - Door Interior This is a Hyundai hatchback sold in USA. The base version starts at 4.5 lakhs !

Its the indian consumer mentality that is letting these companies get away with daylight robbery. GM is starting to change that with the Beat . The FIGO we have to wait and see. If VW comes in expecting to make profit thumping their nose at the Indian consumer with their Superior European TAG , im sure they will fail. I hope they treat us on par with their european or american markets . In fact it is upto us to make sure that the present situation changes and "consumer is king" attitude permeates the indian mind.

The big companies are not doing us a favour by giving us the opportunity to buy their cars , but it is us, the 20th century indian middle class that is doing them a favour by buying their cars ! That should get into the heads of the average car buyer.

@ Daewood , The End .. A similar experience for me .. I bought a RayBan coolers for about 5000 INR . after 1 yer of use i dropped it and broke one side glass . I have been trying to get it replaced withour success. The usual reply from the dealers.. "Sir it is easier to buy a new pair " For service it has to go to Mumbai and will take a minimum of 1 month and they cannot assure if that particular model has spares available. Same applies to all the luxuary brands selling Sunglasses and Watches Etc in big shops like Lifestyle

Last edited by -NUT-case : 26th January 2010 at 18:56.
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Old 26th January 2010, 22:40   #252
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Why do big companies take india for granted ? It is something i cannot understand !
From different forums these are most common things that one desires in his/her hatch:

- Sturdy body
- Refined, powerful and fuel efficient engine
- Highly durable spares which should last for atleast 80K- 1L KMs
- Other features like adjustable steering, height adjustable seats, big boot space, air bags
- good quality plastic.
- Excellent A.S.S

Now,given the import duty and taxation rules in India, do you seriously believe that all the above can be provided with on road price of less than 7Lakhs?

I don't think so. Not even Maruti. A hatch with all the above things will cost at least 8.5-9 Lakhs.

Any company will have to compromise on few of the above things to bring down the cost. I guess even VW is concentrating on some top priority items and going for cheaper stuff for things like plastic, headlights etc.
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Old 26th January 2010, 23:51   #253
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@vnk77 The points you have mentioned are the ones people look for in a car in ANY country .

In regards to FE we are a little idiotic in that we want a powerful engine at the same time want it to be frugal . I grant you that.

But why do we find excuses for the big conglomerates. In mature markets the competition is very high . The choices they have is numerous and hence the manufacturers do not dare give a sub par product or an overpriced one . In india only the small car market has reached that level of competition and we are seeing competitive prices.

When a company localize 80% production the import duty doesn't come into play at all. Yes the tax system sucks.

But take the Fabia for example .. Could you even imagine buying a fabia for 4.5 something Lakhs a year back .. Well it is possible now . HOW? Do you think they are selling it for a loss? They must be making a profit , a little less that's all. What it shows is how much they were overcharging in the first place.
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Old 27th January 2010, 00:40   #254
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@vnk77
But take the Fabia for example .. Could you even imagine buying a fabia for 4.5 something Lakhs a year back .. Well it is possible now . HOW? Do you think they are selling it for a loss? They must be making a profit , a little less that's all. What it shows is how much they were overcharging in the first place.
As someone mentioned just above that GM is trying to set things straight by pricing the Beat 'properly', we can only hope that the other conglomerates entering India get this message straight and fine.

But as long as there are folks in the country who choose to buy a historically overpriced Honda City, the pricing strategy of these car makers get all the more strengthened.
It's actually WE who are gullible and choose to live in Wonderland and the retailers are all there to let us be.

Just hope that VW get their act right for this launch. But they know, there are still lots of 'Alices' around town.
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Old 27th January 2010, 04:13   #255
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Exactly! The market for 10 lakh small hatch would be zilch in India. Actually, with the exception of parts of Europe, the market for expensive small hatches is quite minimal.

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Originally Posted by Trapezio View Post
Okay... Now the question is how many people in India is ready to pay 10 lakhs for a good hatch. My feeling is that it won't be many.

I have not opened up the Honda Civic ac and I do not know whether its like the Swift. About the Swift I know it from the supplier itself and so I assume he knows what he is talking about.
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