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Old 1st January 2010, 17:23   #1
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Default How far will the Thar affect the market?

Note from Mod : The Thar's full test & review has been uploaded at this link (Mahindra Thar : Test Drive & Review). Thread closed. Please continue the discussion over on the review thread.

Considering the Thar does make its way into India. How far would the effects of the same stretch?

1. Will the price of old gen MM 4WD go down in the second hand market?

2. Effect on the price of Army disposals and the ease in acquiring one.

3. Would there be takers for new Gypsy's, assuming there is not much of a price difference?

4. Will we be seeing rebuilds as a wannabe can just pick up one off the shelf?

5. SWB jeeps, will the second hand prices be normal. In the sense reasonable?

Cheers.

Last edited by GTO : 5th January 2011 at 18:40. Reason: Adding link to review thread
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Old 1st January 2010, 17:35   #2
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I guess similar questions would have been raised before launch of invador ..but

point here is how good the product is?
Demand for new gypsy may not get affected .(anyways its not doing nos.)

Last edited by siedo : 1st January 2010 at 17:46.
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Old 1st January 2010, 17:36   #3
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Here is my take (purely from off-roading perspective)

A typical off-roader ALREADY has a family vehicle (car/SUV etc) and then goes on to pick a 4x4 for his off-roading hobby.

Options that he has:
  • Spend 2.5 - 3L MAX for a GOOD 2nd hand vehicle which is READY to go for off-roading (Jeep/Gypsy)
  • Pick a ok-ok condition 4x4 for 1.5-2L and then OVER A PERIOD of time spend another 1-1.5L building it up. Now the key thing is that financial outgo is over a period of time -- slowly so it doesn't pinch much
  • Buy am army auction 4x4 for ~1L and spend 2-3L OVER A PERIOD of time spend building it up.
  • Buy a new THAR for 6-7L
I personally don't see much impact on 2n hand MM/Gypsy market. Yes, civilian Gypsy sales may come down but they are nothing great to write about anyway
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Old 1st January 2010, 17:46   #4
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My opinion on the introduction in bold:

Quote:
Originally Posted by beejay View Post
Considering the Thar does make its way into India. How far would the effects of the same stretch?

1. Will the price of old gen MM 4WD go down in the second hand market?
Definitely

2. Effect on the price of Army disposals and the ease in acquiring one.
Ease of acquiring may not increase but price in the Mayapuri market will definitely reduce

3. Would there be takers for new Gypsy's, assuming there is not much of a price difference?
If the Thar has A/C , PS and someother material goodies, I feel it will definitely sell more than Gypsy provided offroading capability is equal to Gypsy

4. Will we be seeing rebuilds as a wannabe can just pick up one off the shelf?
Today rebuilds from scratch costs anywhere between 3-6 Lakhs depending upon where you start and what you end at. Even then you don't have the reliability of a new vehicle. I think however exciting and involving the whole process may be many people will take the option of plonking down money on a new 4WD

5. SWB jeeps, will the second hand prices be normal. In the sense reasonable?
I may be wrong, but SWB jeeps are supposed to the most agile due to their breakover angles and Thar is LWB , CLs will have their craze.

Cheers.
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Old 1st January 2010, 18:05   #5
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As much as the anticipation is on T-bhp, the Thar would still not be very viable for most people including the 4x4 enthusiast. The main culprit being the upfront money that needs to be shelled out. Buying a second hand Jeep is much cheaper and building it up can be in installments. Moreover the charm of living with a work in progress vehicle is incomparable and goes a long way in building a bond between man and his machine. Where would you get that with a vehicle bought from the showroom.

But having said that, there will be certain takers who would want to byepass the process of building up the Jeep. The prospect of having an instant Jeep will appeal to them as they will turn offroaders from day 1.

Last edited by 1100D : 1st January 2010 at 18:06.
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Old 1st January 2010, 18:54   #6
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i think the Thar will be a hit in the rural areas of India - considering it only carries a small price diff over a new Gypsy and the Diesel engine is enough justification.

Looking at the sheer number of well maintained MM540's/ MM550's in the Nilgiris, Coorg, Chikmagalur and other plantation districts, I am sure the Thar will be well appreciated.
Yes there should be a sort of impact on the second hand market because there will suddenly be some more supply available than there is currently.

India is not yet a mature enough market for "pure-offroading" enthusiasts wanting to invest 7 lacs of rupees on a pure off roader vehicle -at least, not in sufficient numbers to make serious business sense - in that sense the Thar will end up getting cross-subsidized by its brothers - the invader and the bolero 4WD etc.

One only hopes that the Thar will come with a bunch of comforts like PS/AC etc which will then make it more comfortable while yet retaining its character of a rugged off roader jeep - somewhat like the Jeep Wrangler.
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Old 1st January 2010, 22:07   #7
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I don't think the used market will be affected that much as 6 to 7 lakhs OTR is very high for many recreational 4x4 users. There will continue to be demand to build up army vehicles.

@Shankar:

I feel that the rural market is now sold on Bolero and I doubht Thar will make huge inroads into the rural market. Maybe amongst reasoably wealthy estate owners but never amongst the rural junta. They will prefer a no nonsense DI engined Bolero/Major.
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Old 1st January 2010, 23:27   #8
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it all depends how THAR is offered in indian market and targetted at what kind of customer/end user.

In rural india its Bolero all the way.

Invader was launched as a diesel vehicle in comparison to petrol Gypsy, but it flopped!

petrol heads will always go for Gypsy as its the ONLY factory made option available for hardcore 4WD offroadies.

to take on Gypsy, MM should offer THAR with a stripped down version and a diesel plant ofcourse! Civillians hardly buy a new gypsy anyway. though maruti may launch a diesel gypsy if they see THAR sales rising!

if you want a 4WD with PS, AC, you already have Bolero in the market.
if you want a 4WD without frills, you already have Major in the market.

The dabwali and mayapuri will not be decreasing their rates for ex-army disposal jeeps because of THAR being launched, but it will help them with more employment and business making opportunities to build THAR replicas for those who cant afford a brand new THAR!

remember THAR may be replacing Major/Invader, so expect some goodies which these two never had!

THAR's export version is not a SWB, so we expect to see a similar vehicle in india. so SWB MMs will always have their own end user.

so we have to actually wait for the launch and see what catagory of customer MM is targetting with THAR!
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Old 2nd January 2010, 10:10   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post

I personally don't see much impact on 2n hand MM/Gypsy market. Yes, civilian Gypsy sales may come down but they are nothing great to write about anyway
Completely agree with you. It always make sense to have a vehicle within 3L for off roading and some short runs in town.

So I guess the old gen MM and Mpfi Gypsy's would be as pricey as ever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1100D View Post
Moreover the charm of living with a work in progress vehicle is incomparable and goes a long way in building a bond between man and his machine. Where would you get that with a vehicle bought from the showroom.

But having said that, there will be certain takers who would want to byepass the process of building up the Jeep. The prospect of having an instant Jeep will appeal to them as they will turn offroaders from day 1.
Split the enthusiast's into two- One who like to bond with the vehicle irrespective of the various problems that he has to face and vouches to go down the grave with it. The other being someone who does not fancy builds and just buys one of the shelf.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
Yes there should be a sort of impact on the second hand market because there will suddenly be some more supply available than there is currently.
And this would be one of the few New gen 4x4 that can be bought new as of now in India. It should either be a running success or sell a few limited numbers like the Classic did.

I think rather than aimed at the rural areas, this would project itself in the lifestyle segment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
Maybe amongst reasoably wealthy estate owners but never amongst the rural junta. They will prefer a no nonsense DI engined Bolero/Major.
Spot on. There are some people here who are showing interest in purchasing the same. As of now I can forecast one being sold. BTW the same person has a Bolero 4WD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parm View Post
it all depends how THAR is offered in indian market and targetted at what kind of customer/end user.
I think it should primarily target the lifestyle segment/enthusiasts and rural folk for whom 4x4 is a necessity.
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Old 2nd January 2010, 10:16   #10
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Thar will be targetted to a niche market and hence will not have a huge impact on the normal market.

It may come in handy for the Indian Army though.
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Old 2nd January 2010, 11:04   #11
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A new car always has its advantages. Mainly

1. Will invariably be more reliable and refined than a used vehicle

2. Access to Mahindra workshops (some standard) across the country

3. Easy access to new Replacement Parts, as its a current production vehicle

4. Hopefully improved tech in performance, comfort and economy
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Old 2nd January 2010, 12:27   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnabchak View Post
Thar will be targetted to a niche market and hence will not have a huge impact on the normal market.

It may come in handy for the Indian Army though.
They already have Gypsy and MM550 catering to all their needs,and i dont think Thar has anything extra that they need
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Old 2nd January 2010, 13:41   #13
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The THAR would be based on NGCS. Also the Crde engines by Mahindra do offer some serious bang for the money spent.

Wish to mention that there is a PB regd, Di engine Army disposal 550 doing the rounds in Ooty. Now, do you guys think he would even opt for something like this if the Thar were out in a decent with a capital D price range.

Last edited by beejay : 2nd January 2010 at 13:42. Reason: typo....
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Old 2nd January 2010, 17:07   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beejay View Post
The THAR would be based on NGCS. Also the Crde engines by Mahindra do offer some serious bang for the money spent.

Wish to mention that there is a PB regd, Di engine Army disposal 550 doing the rounds in Ooty. Now, do you guys think he would even opt for something like this if the Thar were out in a decent with a capital D price range
Why not?
A Restored MM550 would cost 3L and Thar would not be anything below 6.5L.
So keeping this in Mind,market for used MM550's wont be affected much
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Old 2nd January 2010, 17:30   #15
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This person has spent close to 4.5L now on the 550 on restoration. He got himself a new Di engine, alloy wheels, tyres and the Jeep is one hell of a monster. Considering he was a able to shell out a little more he could have bought a Thar. Again, it is priced decent.
And as far as I know this person, he wanted one blingy Jeep that did not give him any trouble and rode like a car.

Also, I am just curious. Don't you guys think there would have been more takers for a SWB MM Classic on NGCS than a 540 NGCS.

Last edited by beejay : 2nd January 2010 at 17:34. Reason: Also>>>
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