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Old 29th November 2010, 09:21   #391
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Originally Posted by adimicra View Post
What is so special about 4.99L if it does not have even a PS?
The DZire and Manza base version costs same or less and comes with PS and I think adjustable headrests.
Anyone can cut corners and reduce the prices.
I dont think this car is any better than the Manza/Dzire. The interior quality is pretty pathetic and the dashboard is the worst seen in any car in the recent times.

Toyota is trying to cash in on the ypical Indian middle class mindset of owning a Toyota at5-6 lakhs and they will succeed.
No one is saying Etios is better than Manza or Dzire. It is just another competitor in the market. Sure it is better in some areas and falls short in some area. There is nothing called an "Ideal" product which will cater to everyone's tastes.
I am not sure why you are going around bashing Toyota. This is Toyota's effort at introducing an entry level sedan. If this is the best they can do, then be it.
Ultimately it is the huge Indian market which will decide the success or a failure of a product, not the 60000 odd members in this forum.

Lets be realistic and accept the car for what it is and not it could have been. If one doesn't like it then don't buy it. One's food is another's poison.

It doesn't matter how good the car looks or how beautiful the interiors are. In the end what matters in India is reliable mechanicals, good service network and lesser running costs. This is what the Indian market looks at and this is what cars like Dzire, Manza and Etios will deliver and are delivering. The result is quite evident in the sales figures.

And yes, Toyota is targeting the middle class mindset and yes they will indeed succeed. Because they have done their homework and have developed a product which according to them will cater the needs of the customers.
Business is business and no one is here to do charity and the entire ballgame of any business is to make money exploiting the market's interests and needs. So what is wrong with Toyota exploiting the middle class mindset of the Indian population.
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Old 29th November 2010, 09:47   #392
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Originally Posted by speedmiester View Post
No one is saying Etios is better than Manza or Dzire. It is just another competitor in the market. Sure it is better in some areas and falls short in some area. There is nothing called an "Ideal" product which will cater to everyone's tastes.
I am not sure why you are going around bashing Toyota. This is Toyota's effort at introducing an entry level sedan. If this is the best they can do, then be it.
Ultimately it is the huge Indian market which will decide the success or a failure of a product, not the 60000 odd members in this forum.

Lets be realistic and accept the car for what it is and not it could have been. If one doesn't like it then don't buy it. One's food is another's poison.

It doesn't matter how good the car looks or how beautiful the interiors are. In the end what matters in India is reliable mechanicals, good service network and lesser running costs. This is what the Indian market looks at and this is what cars like Dzire, Manza and Etios will deliver and are delivering. The result is quite evident in the sales figures.

And yes, Toyota is targeting the middle class mindset and yes they will indeed succeed. Because they have done their homework and have developed a product which according to them will cater the needs of the customers.
Business is business and no one is here to do charity and the entire ballgame of any business is to make money exploiting the market's interests and needs. So what is wrong with Toyota exploiting the middle class mindset of the Indian population.
Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion. The same way I am criticising Toyota (as the car is not to my taste), aren't you being very vocal about defending Toyota? I am not stopping you from saying anything. So what's the big deal?
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Old 29th November 2010, 09:52   #393
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Mark my words,"RIP swift dzire."
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Old 29th November 2010, 10:01   #394
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This post has already attracted as many as 391 reply’s and 91,069 views till the time I wrote this post on 29th November 2010 09:47.
Lots like it Toyota’s buzz word is already working its charm, Suzuki’s and Hyundai’s must be having sleepless nights.

Waiting eagerly waiting for a GTO’s review comments for a final go, all the other auto shows and magazines have already given a big thumbs up to Etios.
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Old 29th November 2010, 10:19   #395
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Mark my words,"RIP swift dzire."
This is precisely what I want to see ! I am so frustrated that no one gave a tough time to this model and Maruti had a gala time selling this and making its bank statements strong ! Manza did set a good benchmark, but could not break the monopoly.

I still dont understand why should I pay an extra 1 lakh for the boot of Dzire, in addition to the swift ! Or is it actually justified?

Only when the competition is strong, we get better VFM cars ! I seriously hope Toyota doesnt bring in those insane waiting periods !
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Old 29th November 2010, 10:21   #396
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by seeing videos of various auto shows on TV about Etios, i would say the Dzire is safe. I agree Etios is a Toyota, but still going by the looks, the interior styling etc, the Dzire looks way more civilised (atleast in the interior bit) designwise. To me, the placement of A/C vents and Instrument Cluster in the center is a big no no.
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Old 29th November 2010, 10:31   #397
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I am so surprised that no one bothers about Dzire that is being sold at a premium which has cramped interiors and a disgusting look as other cars in the segment; but have a problem with Toyota making a car to the "price" with better space !
Precisely!. I hope that ugly made to fool Indians "sedan" will be less of an eyesore on our roads. If reliability and resale was the only quotient, then Toyota has it in equal or more measure than Maruti. The other features are also much better in Etios. Toyota only has to ramp up production to avoid waiting periods and also increase dealerships to have a wider footprint.

Purely my opinion, no offence to dzire owners
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Old 29th November 2010, 10:45   #398
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Originally Posted by adimicra View Post
Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion. The same way I am criticising Toyota (as the car is not to my taste), aren't you being very vocal about defending Toyota? I am not stopping you from saying anything. So what's the big deal?
I do agree that everyone is entitled to their opinion. But lets not add many posts harping the same tune again and again.
BTW I am not defending Toyota, I have not driven the car. How can I support or thrash a car without seeing a production version in flesh and without a proper test drive.
Infact for that matter Maruti have done a good job in understanding the Indian market sentiment about a three box car. They introduced Dzire which even in my worst nightmare I wouldn't want to buy. But does it matter, it sells like hot cakes. Because that's what the Indian market wants.

Quote:
Mark my words,"RIP swift dzire."
I do not think Etios will mark the end of Dzire.
For a typical customer, an Dzire Lxi makes more sense as it provides more features than Etios base version and also it costs less.
We can expect the number dwindling a bit, but nothing more. After a few months this will consolidate and we will see a steady number for both the cars.
One good thing that one might expect is the reduction in delivery times because of the choices a consumer now has in the market.
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Old 29th November 2010, 11:14   #399
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Originally Posted by sidindica View Post
Mark my words,"RIP swift dzire."
+1

I expect Etios to dethrone Dzire very quickly. The reason why Toyota is delaying the Diesel version, could be that they want to smoothen difficulties in the ramping up the production or else they would end up with a huge waiting period just like the Dzire.

My friend in Lanson Toyota told me that Toyota is actually working on a "Brand-new" diesel engine for the Etios (with some patented technology). I am not sure if this is true. But if it is true, it also explains why they did not launch the Diesel immediately.

Last edited by MAS : 29th November 2010 at 11:15.
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Old 29th November 2010, 11:26   #400
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Originally Posted by sidindica View Post
Mark my words,"RIP swift dzire."
I would beg to disagree.

I'm no fan of the Swift DZire, infact I hate it. But still, Maruti's Sales and Service has reached a high level in sheer numbers and they have been consistent in customer satisfaction as well. I don't think Toyota can match Maruti in sales and service points and the target customer isn't complaining of the Maruti's quality that he wants to shift to a Toyota.

And anyways, is there a New Swift DZire coming?

If priced right, the Etios will be a game changer. But don't write off the competition yet.
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Old 29th November 2010, 11:29   #401
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This is a real disappointment. From the interiors I feel they are trying for a vfm hatchback which should come in the price band of swift.
I know many people who are delaying their hatchback purchase in anticipation of ethios.

Last edited by arunkk : 29th November 2010 at 11:32.
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Old 29th November 2010, 11:39   #402
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Etios' first casualty IMO will be the Manza. People who look at Manza go for it's space and when you have a Toyota with acres of space the natural tendency will be to oversee the Manza. Dzire being a market leader will be hit next. I would expect Maruti to slash the prices atleast by the time the diesel version of Etios is launched. The same will hold good for the regular swift when the Etios hatch is launched.
All these are possible without taking the next gen swift's launch. Who knows the next gen Swift may already be undergoing changes for a Dzire avatar!
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Old 29th November 2010, 11:40   #403
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedmiester View Post
I do agree that everyone is entitled to their opinion. But lets not add many posts harping the same tune again and again.
BTW I am not defending Toyota, I have not driven the car. How can I support or thrash a car without seeing a production version in flesh and without a proper test drive.
Infact for that matter Maruti have done a good job in understanding the Indian market sentiment about a three box car. They introduced Dzire which even in my worst nightmare I wouldn't want to buy. But does it matter, it sells like hot cakes. Because that's what the Indian market wants.

I do not think Etios will mark the end of Dzire.
For a typical customer, an Dzire Lxi makes more sense as it provides more features than Etios base version and also it costs less.
We can expect the number dwindling a bit, but nothing more. After a few months this will consolidate and we will see a steady number for both the cars.
One good thing that one might expect is the reduction in delivery times because of the choices a consumer now has in the market.
with you speedmiester, on both counts.

IMO Toyota Etios is sheer value for money when it comes to sedans priced around Rs.6 lacs.
You get a 1.5L engine that is rated 17kmpl+.
Moreover, there is oodles of space both in the car courtesy the bench seating at the rear & slim seats & the boot is humongous (~600 litres, I bet Indian housewives will be more than happy with this as they tend to carry excess baggage all the times, & with this car they can carry at least 125 litres more than the Manza or Dzire, & almost 100 litres more than Logan, current market leader in terms of boot space in case of sedans under Rs.10 lacs).
Further, if one has watched Overdrive show as well as the C&B on NDTV Profit, one can note that the car has got better interiors than the cars in the segment. If I can recall it correctly, Renuka Kriplani did mention that it has got better interiors than that of Dzire.
In both of the shows, again, the hosts mentioned that the seats were comfortable for long journeys, so city drives should not be bother the owners, despite Nano like seats (I did sit in a Nano, & found its seats better than/ at par with most cars under Rs. 4 Lacs, in terms of comfort + ingress & egress).
To add to this this will be Toyota (with its quality & reliability) in affordable price range, actually priced much below its true competitors Honda, VW, Ford, Fiat & the likes.
There will be high demand for this car despite Dzire like waiting periods.

I feel that the going will be tough for all cars (premium hatches & sedans) below Rs.10 lacs rather than just the Dzire.

I wonder what would happen to i20 & Jazz... & probably Maruti-Suzuki mgmt. will think twice before increasing the price with the 2011 Swift launch.

I think it will do a Corolla (right in the 80's) for Toyota again in the (2010's).

God Bless competition.
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Old 29th November 2010, 11:53   #404
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Originally Posted by kiku007 View Post
I would beg to disagree.

I'm no fan of the Swift DZire, infact I hate it. But still, Maruti's Sales and Service has reached a high level in sheer numbers and they have been consistent in customer satisfaction as well. I don't think Toyota can match Maruti in sales and service points and the target customer isn't complaining of the Maruti's quality that he wants to shift to a Toyota.

And anyways, is there a New Swift DZire coming?

If priced right, the Etios will be a game changer. But don't write off the competition yet.
kiku007, Honda/Toyota's Quality is not dependent on the JD Power ratings. These are actually good, only the customer experience with the dealership need not be good.. say Raj's case with the Innova (sorry for referring to another member w/o permission).

Regarding the 2011 Dzire, I have heard that it is expected in Oct-11.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arunkk View Post
This is a real disappointment. From the interiors I feel they are trying for a vfm hatchback which should come in the price band of swift.
I know many people who are delaying their hatchback purchase in anticipation of ethios.
arunkk, IMO, Toyota are trying for VFM Hatch as well as the sedan, with Etios. Actually, there are not many changes in Swift & Dzire + Polo & Vento interiors (there could be more such cases), & with all these selling well I have no doubt that Toyota will have problems in deliveries with 70K annual capacity.

THey delayed the hatch because of the new facility not being ready for optimum production.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pacman2881 View Post
Etios' first casualty IMO will be the Manza. People who look at Manza go for it's space and when you have a Toyota with acres of space the natural tendency will be to oversee the Manza. Dzire being a market leader will be hit next. I would expect Maruti to slash the prices atleast by the time the diesel version of Etios is launched. The same will hold good for the regular swift when the Etios hatch is launched.
All these are possible without taking the next gen swift's launch. Who knows the next gen Swift may already be undergoing changes for a Dzire avatar!
Apart from good space that Manza has, it has the benefit of almost ready deliveries as compared to Dzire & (in future for the) Etios. So I believe till the time both these can manage ready deliveries, some customers will go for the Manza. But, sales of all the cars will be adversely affected, be it Dzire, Manza, Logan, Fiesta, Vento, Linea, City, etc.

I feel that Etios is going to Figo the sedans' market.

MODS, please merge my two posts, as I have done so by mistake. My apologies

Last edited by CARDEEP : 29th November 2010 at 11:54. Reason: Back-to-back posts
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Old 29th November 2010, 11:58   #405
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Originally Posted by rajtheindian View Post
It may be Toyota's tactics to delay the Diesel to avoid a TAXI badge in the early days, Majority of the Indica and Logan taxis are Diesels.
In Delhi, Esteems are used as taxis with gas kits plonked. Similarly for Accents in Mumbai. Hence if taxiwallahs have their way they can convert Etios petrol to gas and run their biz.
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