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Old 26th June 2010, 00:10   #691
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Expect the Unexpected...
Hope the Aria to be leaps ahead in terms of quality than other Tata products. The JLR affect might bring the cheers here.
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Old 26th June 2010, 01:24   #692
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prmd_cochin View Post
Its not long since the Grande MK2 was launched and it suffers from the same old TATA habits off bad plastics, panel gaps. How can we expect ARIA to come with better quality ? It might still be a success.
I think you missed the launch of a car called the Manza (even the Vista to a certain extent). Also, a visit to the showroom might tell you that the Vista, the Manza and even the Indigo CS (check bhpian vivekgk thread on his CS) have come a long way.

I have no doubt that the Aria will have good quality interiors, the external panel gaps are not in any doubt either.
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Old 26th June 2010, 11:10   #693
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Originally Posted by Amartya View Post
I think you missed the launch of a car called the Manza (even the Vista to a certain extent). Also, a visit to the showroom might tell you that the Vista, the Manza and even the Indigo CS (check bhpian vivekgk thread on his CS) have come a long way.

I have no doubt that the Aria will have good quality interiors, the external panel gaps are not in any doubt either.

Well Manza interiors are way ahead of what Tata used to be but still they are about average. Tata will have to do much better if they want Aria to get into 10+ lakh category the interiors should then look classy not just about average.
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Old 26th June 2010, 11:32   #694
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Achieving good Fit and finish is only one thing. There will be many engineering challenges which requires clever solutions. Tata needs to master these things to make great products.
One such example I can give is the locking mechanism for the rear hatch on Indica/Vista. In most (all?) cars, the hook is present on the body and the actual lock mechanism is located on the hatch door. But in Indica and Vista, you see the mechanism on the body and the hook on the hatch. This is obviously easy to achieve but the down side is, you are exposing the mechanism to possible abuses while loading/unloading.
Hope Tata has paid attention to these small but significant things in Aria.
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Old 26th June 2010, 12:31   #695
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This could turn out to be an 'Innova Killer' if priced right. The equipment/features and space is fantastic! If the build quality and interior quality are as good as they look in the pictures, Tata has a winner on their hands without doubt! I don't think the Xylo will last either!
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Old 26th June 2010, 13:06   #696
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I hope Innova faces some heat, for no other reason but that it would make the market more competitive knowing that other brands are on your tail.I think Xylo might take more of a hit than Innnova from the base version of the Aria if it has got a fair amount of features.

The other thinngs which will be in favour of Aria will be,

1) Looks, although very much subjective, Aria is a better looker,

2) Improved chassis lesser body roll and high speed handling,

3) Powerful engine.

Healthy competition like this makes things so good for potential customers.

Last edited by MihirC : 26th June 2010 at 13:09.
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Old 26th June 2010, 14:21   #697
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I still remember how the Xylo was being considered as the 'Innova' killer. Innova still remains the King of taxis. I haven't seen a Xylo taxi till date. I am not joking, seriously I have not!! Will history repeat itself? Only time will tell.

But, if TATA get the quality and reliability bang on(as it looks on the auto-expo model), it sure will eat up the Innova.

OT: Innova IS getting old now. Maybe time for an upgrade?
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Old 26th June 2010, 15:51   #698
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ranc View Post
Well Manza interiors are way ahead of what Tata used to be but still they are about average. Tata will have to do much better if they want Aria to get into 10+ lakh category the interiors should then look classy not just about average.
Who cares for panel gap and plastics when you get AWD , ABS , 6 Airbags , ESP and host of essential features under 15L when not all of them together are present in anything under 25 L in India ?

There is definately a segment who cares about various other things rather then a "Phoren" brand or the gaps which incidentally Auto journos report and people keep on parroting ?

It's all about the kind of spin you can generate for the product. some companies like M&M are not ashamed of panel gaps and lack of symmetry and they are termed as 'character' , 'Macho' and what not.

I think failure of Tatas is being extremely apologetic about what they sell.

BTW : I do not think ARIA will eat in to Innova Taxi market, Innova E model is just 8.XX Lakhs . There is half Innova (4 Lakh) between base Aria (12 L) and base Innova (8.xx L)

It will create a new segment and to some extent eat in to Safari VX, Captiva , Endeavor , Laura, Innova V market.

Last edited by amitk26 : 26th June 2010 at 15:54.
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Old 26th June 2010, 16:46   #699
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
Who cares for panel gap and plastics when you get AWD , ABS , 6 Airbags , ESP and host of essential features under 15L when not all of them together are present in anything under 25 L in India ?

There is definately a segment who cares about various other things rather then a "Phoren" brand or the gaps which incidentally Auto journos report and people keep on parroting ?

It's all about the kind of spin you can generate for the product. some companies like M&M are not ashamed of panel gaps and lack of symmetry and they are termed as 'character' , 'Macho' and what not.

I think failure of Tatas is being extremely apologetic about what they sell.

BTW : I do not think ARIA will eat in to Innova Taxi market, Innova E model is just 8.XX Lakhs . There is half Innova (4 Lakh) between base Aria (12 L) and base Innova (8.xx L)

It will create a new segment and to some extent eat in to Safari VX, Captiva , Endeavor , Laura, Innova V market.
I totally agree with you Sir. All these Auto Mags, they make a huge hue and cry about the panel gaps, plastic quality, etc in the cars from Indian manufacturers. They do not complain about the same in phoren brands, and I have seen phoren cars with huge panel gapss, and no complains But they fail to see the other things, they do not report when we get an old outdated car that has already been phased out in some country, and is made and sold in India. Or when we get a car that is priced very exorbitantly with regards to the features it offers. India is a market where people are just glued to phoren brands, irrespective of whether they deliver value or not.
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Old 26th June 2010, 22:15   #700
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Bro spotted this a few weeks back at a Worli pump.
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Old 26th June 2010, 22:24   #701
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinaydas View Post
900 safari's compared to the 5k Innova's and 7k(Xylo & Scorpio) are not good numbers.
Even the 20+ Lac fortuner outsells the safari.
Hahaha - I don't know what is your problem against TATA. First of all Safari does not compete against Xylo and Fortuner. Safari is still considered a 5 seater and thats one of the reasons only enthusiasts buy it for mostly off-roading purposes. Comparing safari with people movers is not the best way to make a point . On the other-hand everybody is going against fortuner thats why new gen safari and mahindra world suv are coming for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by prmd_cochin View Post
Its not long since the Grande MK2 was launched and it suffers from the same old TATA habits off bad plastics, panel gaps. How can we expect ARIA to come with better quality ? It might still be a success.
Heh, have you seen the cars that Toyota used to make in the 80s and 90s. They have improved leaps and bounds in the last two decades. But hopefully TATA does not have to spend that long to make good cars. Even a stupid man will not repeat his mistakes(I am sure you definitely would not make the same mistake twice). I assume TATA would have learn't their lessons from Grande and ARIA should be definitely better for about double the price of Grande

Quote:
Originally Posted by ranc View Post
Well Manza interiors are way ahead of what Tata used to be but still they are about average. Tata will have to do much better if they want Aria to get into 10+ lakh category the interiors should then look classy not just about average.
IMO TATA's USP has been to give more features in a lower price point along with their house speciality - huge space. All their cars prove this. Traditionally interiors and refinement have been their weaknesses. You post like you haven't seen the ARIA interiors at all . IMO the interiors are quite good from the pictures I have seen so far from the Autoshow.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Guna View Post
Achieving good Fit and finish is only one thing. There will be many engineering challenges which requires clever solutions. Tata needs to master these things to make great products.
One such example I can give is the locking mechanism for the rear hatch on Indica/Vista. In most (all?) cars, the hook is present on the body and the actual lock mechanism is located on the hatch door. But in Indica and Vista, you see the mechanism on the body and the hook on the hatch. This is obviously easy to achieve but the down side is, you are exposing the mechanism to possible abuses while loading/unloading.
Hope Tata has paid attention to these small but significant things in Aria.
Very good point. This is one of the reasons I think the launch is being delayed from the introduction of new models at the Autoshow. With the management shakeup, more testing and new leadership it seems like finally TATA is moving in the right direction. May the previous top leadership brought the "chalta hai" attitude and since they are gone now lets hope from ARIA onwards TATA hits the ground running.
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Old 26th June 2010, 22:35   #702
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gshanky View Post
Hahaha - I don't know what is your problem against TATA. First of all Safari does not compete against Xylo and Fortuner. Safari is still considered a 5 seater and thats one of the reasons only enthusiasts buy it for mostly off-roading purposes. Comparing safari with people movers is not the best way to make a point .
The Safari By No mean's is an "Enthusiasts Offroader " it is also a fancy people mover with 4wd. Safari Does not come in the 5 seater config. The Scorpio is the Main Competitor along with the Innova to the safari. People Do consider xylo's over safaris (do not mistake it because of its form factor). I had Taken the Fortuner as a reference only denoting that a 20 lac + car can do more numbers than a car
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Old 26th June 2010, 22:37   #703
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Hey V12 nice capture. It looks humongous in this photo. The rear could have been little better though overall I think it will be a good vehicle. The last row window looks a little claustrophic.
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Old 26th June 2010, 22:53   #704
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinaydas View Post
The Safari By No mean's is an "Enthusiasts Offroader " it is also a fancy people mover with 4wd. Safari Does not come in the 5 seater config. The Scorpio is the Main Competitor along with the Innova to the safari. People Do consider xylo's over safaris (do not mistake it because of its form factor). I had Taken the Fortuner as a reference only denoting that a 20 lac + car can do more numbers than a car
Heh, then why don't you say so the first time around .

After the price drop and re-design Scorpio is more VFM in the segment of Safari/scorpio/Innova. I know that because I have a Scorpio and I was looking for a people mover. Thats why I did not go for Safari. Technically you are right that Safari has 7 seats. But no un-biased person will agree with you that Safari is a people mover.

May be cab owners and large families will consider Xylo over Safari. In regards to fortuner let me know if I should bring the case of those TATA buses/trucks (more expensive than Fortuner) outselling Fortuner

It is better for all of us if we remain "on-topic"
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Old 26th June 2010, 22:57   #705
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ARIA is parked in my building's parking lot since 7 pm.
It is maroon and with all the chorme it is looking brilliant.

Sorry no pics - camera battries have discahrged at the right time. Will check if it is still parked tommorow morning and click as many pics.
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