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Old 28th June 2010, 17:45   #736
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IMHO Aria doesnt deserve to be in the league that we are talking about, it doesnt have a proven track record of lets say a Fortuner. It doesnt have the reliability comfort that the Toyota badge offers. It doesnt have a reliable engine that Toyota and Mahindra's offer. I feel the best place to position ARIA will be sub 10 lakhs and hope that it sells more than the Innova and the scorpio and the XYLO because of the features that it offers. The cabin comfort has to be good if not classy to be able to sell more than the Innova. Another factor is that it is not great looking either, looks sort of disproportionate specially in the last pick of a Worli petrol pump. At best it can be described as an average looker.

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Old 28th June 2010, 17:53   #737
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It seems that before the vehicle is launched we are trying to proclaim it as a . Honestly, speaking to sell is manufacturers domain & buy or not is our option. Then why do we try to identify imaginary weaknesses in the car even before it is launched.

I I have the money (Rs.12-15 lacs), I would definitely buy the Innova, but consider the Aria as well, because for that money, I can get more features in the vehicle than what I get in the Innova. Regarding reliability, I know that Toyota is better, but with the kind of brakes on the Fortuner, do they inspire the owners in case of emergency braking. Otherwise there would have been no selective recall by Toyota for brakes replacement for Fortuner.

After the US fiasco, I am more concerned by Toyotas' stopping abilities (or rather not), despite the fact that I am a die-hard Toyota fan. After I would prefer being stranded on a highway, rather than being ploughed into the tail of another vehicle for not being able to stop (putting my & family/friends' lives at risk).

Regarding the Mahindra thingy, I have relative who had woeful experience with India's favourite SUV, not to mention the sub-par ride & seating comfort, only in the name of butch SUV. There are pages in the forum itself where the handling is described as ship in choppy waters. Go to the technical stuff pages, you will see the number pages in of Scorpio Problems thread is half that of the Safari thread. Doesn't that indicate that even Scorpio isn't that good... it is only little better than Safari. Does that means it give you peace of mind... Noooo!!!!!.

My cousin sister has a wonderful experience with Safari. She ditched her City & Papa's Corolla for Safari. Went for Scorpio.. but came back dissatisfied. I have driven the SUV & found it good enough for family of 5 (after all which SUV, not MUV is meant for ferrying the big family). I could manage speed of around 100 kmph between Ambience mall to R&R (Delhi) & yet the second row occupants were comfortable. The grouse (s) that I had was the Turbo's buzzing sound & vary light steering. And she had no reliability problem till date, despite having covered over a lac kms in just two years.

Does that means it give you peace of mind... Noooo!!!!!...again.
Does that means it is better than Scorpio/Innova... never.
But, it has its own identity different from above two.

Why do not we accept the fact that it is new vehicle from Tata (or any manufacturer as of fact) evaluate it before pronouncing any judgement, without any prejudice...
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Old 28th June 2010, 18:23   #738
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Well If I have 15 Lakhs with me I may put it on ARIA provided it gives good off-road performance in mud /slush with it's AWD, By no means I am looking at pure offroader like Jeep / Thar or Trax because I love creature comfirt. I am done with 2WD highway cruiser and need something more that can take me off-road occasionally but that is my personal requirement.

Well For vehicles of class of Aria , Safari and Scorpio speed is not primary ( will refrain from commenting on Fortuner).

My primary requirements would be
1. Can it pull through on broken roads ( ARIA with 17 inch should have better GC then Safari here)
2. Is it comfortable for long journey.
3. Is it safe : ARIA looks safest on paper.
4. Does it break down in middle of nowhere.
Because ARIA has same 2.2 engine which took me places I think it can.
5. Can it give me satisfaction of 4WD : Perhaps ARIA lacks 4L so don't know on this part.

What I am willing to discount for about 7 lakhs is .

1. Brand Image
2. Plastics and panel gaps ( I do not care about them)
3. Minor niggles.

I am sure Aria can do good highway cruising because it is lighter then Safari 2.2 and has same engine. My Safari goes up to 165 and I have driven above 140 Km/hr constantly for more the 50-100 KM on empty roads first from Anatpur to penuKonda on NH7 ,from Madurai to nagarcoil and on NH4 between Bellari and Chitradurga. The limit is mostly self imposed considering the safety concerns,
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Old 28th June 2010, 18:29   #739
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Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
^^ Would you pick an Aria over Fortuner?
How can we compare Fortuner with Aria. I mentioned earlier too I somehow cannot bring myself to picture both these vehicles together for a comparison. First of all, Fortuner has a different body style. Its an SUV. A design which I prefer to all other body style. So even if a day comes when Tata = Toyota in all aspects (even in terms of brand aspiration) and Toyota = Tata (price wise), I will stick to Fortuner over Aria because it is my preferred body style.

Having said that I guess your question has something to do with the brand Tata and it aspiring to offer a 15 lac vehicle. I maintain then, that if I were on the look out of a MUV and Aria is proven to be a very reliable vehicle or on par with the best in industry for its segment, I would have no hesitation what so ever in buying owning and living with it. The brand perception of Tata maybe a problem with others not me.

Finally, to me putting 15 lac on a vehicle is an expensive undertaking and thus the vehicle bought, ought to be world class in every aspect. At present Tata does not instill the confidence in me that they can deliver such a product. Mine is not the last word and so if Aria actually happens to be a world beater I would have no qualms whatsoever in owning it.

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Old 28th June 2010, 21:25   #740
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Ever since they introduced Indica, the strategy of TATA motors has been simple. It is

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Introduce a diesel variant in the price band of existing segments along with traditional TATA featureset like good ride quality, more space, etc.
So indica offered diesel at the price band of existing vehicles like santro/matiz/zen. Then TATA continued the same with Indigo. Now they are trying to do the same with ARIA.

TATA is giving way more features like curtain airbags, AWD, traction control and in the same time introducing the concept of crossovers to india. No points to guess that the car is offered with a diesel engine. Since there is no comparable vehicle, we are ending up comparing Innova at the lower end and then Fortuner at the higher end.

Now that ARIA has significantly more features than both Innova and Fortuner, this is not a good comparison. Innova caters to certain family and people mover category and it is tough to get folks away from it with 2-3 lakhs more price.

If I run a cab service, I would be normally getting good returns with Innova. May be the only reason I might go for ARIA would be if I get a diesel variant for the price of an Innova petrol variant. Naturally cabbies don't worry about ABS,Airbags,AWD, et. al. But to get ARIA for its reputation alone will take a while (or may not happen)

On the other hand, if I am a family man, I could consider ARIA if I can afford between 12L and 18L. The natural choice of customer base would be existing Safari Vx customers who like their vehicle and are looking for an upgrade. But then most folks would be very very careful considering ownership experience of Safari. However this seems like the best bet and TATA can target sales of around 3000 per month if the vehicle is comparably better than Innova. All the better if it compares even a little bit to Fortuner. And IMO this is what TATA want for ARIA for starters - poor man's Fortuner
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Old 28th June 2010, 21:55   #741
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Originally Posted by mercedised View Post
Guys,

Let us give sometime to Indian Manufacturers to be in the lines of Japanese and other foreign companies. These companies have a experience of 20-40 years minimum in producing 'Luxury Class' passenger vehicles. They have reached such a reliable stage because in foreign countries the customer is more towards safety, comfort and reliability of vehicle. Rather than cost they focus on other aspects. The Indian manufacturers right from their beginning have tried to win the hearts of Indians by producing 'low cost more valuables' and the mighty TATA's and MAHINDRA's which are being compared here with Japanese companies, when we put light on the history of Indian companies they are hardly in the production of passenger cars from last 10 years.(I am talking about a hard focus on producing only passenger cars) While the Honda has more than 20 years of experience and Toyota in the same category. If we are comparing a 10 year old child with a 30 year old guy in capabilities, then you will find it that a 30 year old guy wins effortlessely. Same goes with these companies.

The thread has gone a total wrong way. Please let us stop these offtopic here only. And not debate on quality of Indian and Foreigners, as there is no end to this debate.


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Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
i totally agree with mercedised. I tried to point this perspective in other threads also.

it always we indians who have downgraded indian products. from phones to DVD players to cars, we always want a "phoren" brand. if it all we buy an indian brand, then it should cost half of its japanese/chinese counterpart.

as many have said before in this thread, they will readily buy a 22L fortuner but will never think about a 15L tata. We force the manufacturers to cut costs first & then we degrade their products & stop them from growing. sad indeed.

as far as i am concerned, if tata gets its issues sorted out & promises me a reliable aria, i would be more than happy to buy the aria instead of the fortuner. in fact, i am desperately waiting for the mahindra world SUV (W201).
I agree with you guys totally. Toyota created it's first car in1936, honda 1963, Suzuki 1937. Still, Tata and M&M should be proud that they are able to compete with them.
Diesel Toyota Altis FE 21.43
Tata Indigo e-cs Fe 23.03.

I would wait for Aria to be launched before I pass my judgement.
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Old 28th June 2010, 23:41   #742
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Originally Posted by airbender View Post

Diesel Toyota Altis FE 21.43
Tata Indigo e-cs Fe 23.03.

I would wait for Aria to be launched before I pass my judgement.

This comparison is almost like one between apples and oranges. Two cars from entirely different segments/Body size.
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Old 29th June 2010, 00:13   #743
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Originally Posted by 1100D View Post
This comparison is almost like one between apples and oranges. Two cars from entirely different segments/Body size.
While the comparison indeed was an apples to oranges one, the basic premise of the post was quite correct.

Anyway, in this fiercely competitive market place, being new to the game cannot be an excuse. So, although I am proud of both our home grown manufacturers (more of Tata), they need to push forward stronger.
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Old 29th June 2010, 01:35   #744
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Heh, have you seen the cars that Toyota used to make in the 80s and 90s. They have improved leaps and bounds in the last two decades. But hopefully TATA does not have to spend that long to make good cars. Even a stupid man will not repeat his mistakes(I am sure you definitely would not make the same mistake twice). I assume TATA would have learn't their lessons from Grande and ARIA should be definitely better for about double the price of Grande.

My answer is, you would have been lucky enough to watch these cars running around gleefully even with half a million or more kms on the odo had they been launched in the 80's or 90's here in India.

Is Tata anywhere near Toyota in terms of quality? ( or any of the ities for that matter)

At the moment: NO!

In future:....................!
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Old 29th June 2010, 01:51   #745
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Originally Posted by VINUMON View Post
My answer is, you would have been lucky enough to watch these cars running around gleefully even with half a million or more kms on the odo had they been launched in the 80's or 90's here in India.

Is Tata anywhere near Toyota in terms of quality? ( or any of the ities for that matter)

At the moment: NO!

In future:....................!
May be you are the lucky one to have spent quite some time watching cars running for 5 lakh km. Since the 80s, TOYOTAs have become very ambitious and hence they went on to create Lexus, then Scion and now the strategic investment in Subaru. So, it is only natural that TATA is also ambitiously chasing growth. And with maturity comes quality.

And yes TATA is defintely no where in terms of toyota QUALITY - the quality of recalling millions of vehicles? Hell no.

Haha - just say you don't know the future, the only difference is that I am being an optimist and you are being a pessimist.
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Old 29th June 2010, 02:08   #746
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Coming back to the topic: Any info on the launch date? I do not believe Aria will kill innova or Fortuner. But they will co-exist. The vehicle looks promising. I like the one in gray the most.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post1939389
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Old 29th June 2010, 23:41   #747
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Originally Posted by gshanky View Post
May be you are the lucky one to have spent quite some time watching cars running for 5 lakh km. Since the 80s, TOYOTAs have become very ambitious and hence they went on to create Lexus, then Scion and now the strategic investment in Subaru. So, it is only natural that TATA is also ambitiously chasing growth. And with maturity comes quality.

Let's hope you would be lucky in your next life.

And yes TATA is defintely no where in terms of toyota QUALITY - the quality of recalling millions of vehicles? Hell no.

There you are! Millions is the term!

Haha - just say you don't know the future, the only difference is that I am being an optimist and you are being a pessimist.
Sorry, I aint a fortune teller.
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Old 30th June 2010, 00:10   #748
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Originally Posted by airbender View Post
Coming back to the topic: Any info on the launch date? I do not believe Aria will kill innova or Fortuner. But they will co-exist. The vehicle looks promising. I like the one in gray the most.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post1939389

By the looks and the features of it.

Certainly the dated Innova will take a beating.

Hoping to see the product launch soon.
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Old 30th June 2010, 11:57   #749
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And yes TATA is defintely no where in terms of toyota QUALITY - the quality of recalling millions of vehicles? Hell no.
If Tata had courtesy of recalling the vehicles, they would have easily recalled 70% of vehicles by now. Everybody here knows Tata sort of does Beta testing on its customers, and the best time to buy a Tata vehicle is when it has spent some time being on sale.
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Old 30th June 2010, 12:25   #750
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The root cause of this is the current brand perception which TATA is trying to change with the ARIA. If Honda/Toyota/Maruti recall a million vehicles , in India it will be percieved as a great initiative or effort by these companies to resolve the issues in the car and cater to its customers but if TATA does any recalls at the moment, it would be immediately branded as a a non reliable brand. Its just the way the brands have evolved over the years.

As of now Aria and then the Prima sedan has the burden of improving this perception from the Indian market and I sure as hell hope they are upto it.

Last edited by MihirC : 30th June 2010 at 12:27.
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