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Old 11th August 2010, 17:00   #1006
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Originally Posted by suman View Post
I don't think the comparison is with either (I'm talking about the top end Aria here with all the bells & whistles). The Aria is a Crossover vehicle & neither the Innova, nor the Fortuner fall into that category. The Aria falls in-between the two categories (MUV & SUV).
I do not want to get into the classical vs romantic debate. While a set of buyers would put emphasis at the underlying function, there would be another set putting emphasis at the external form. Some may consider both, degree of consideration varying. Both, form and function, are important, and I think it is incorrect to ignore one over the other.
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Old 11th August 2010, 17:11   #1007
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While a set of buyers would put emphasis at the underlying function, there would be another set putting emphasis at the external form.
You could be correct. (The latter are probably the same set who keep bringing in the Innova in every "Safari or Scorpio" thread).

I feel that as a part of India's best Automotive forum, we should take the trouble of making the distinction in our own minds at least. If we are not clear on what constitutes a Crossover, how would the masses be any different.

And I missed your reply on how you see the Captiva.
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Old 11th August 2010, 18:07   #1008
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You could be correct. (The latter are probably the same set who keep bringing in the Innova in every "Safari or Scorpio" thread).
Not sure of this, but they could be talking from a utility point of view. I have not seen those threads, just a guess.

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Originally Posted by suman View Post
And I missed your reply on how you see the Captiva.
Van-like? Don't think so. Fortuner-like? Not there either.

BTW, just found this conversation from another thread.
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Originally Posted by scopriobharath View Post
Toyota Fortuner will have competition if tata Aria is launched as planned by End of this year.
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Originally Posted by nitrous View Post
A Toyota SUV vs a Tata van?
Coming back.
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Originally Posted by suman View Post
I feel that as a part of India's best Automotive forum, we should take the trouble of making the distinction in our own minds at least. If we are not clear on what constitutes a Crossover, how would the masses be any different.
Yes, I get your point.

When I said Aria could be compared with Innova, I did not intend to say Aria needs to be priced like Innova. Aria may open up a new segment altogether. Hence it might be priced higher. Some number of potential Aria buyers might be gravitating towards Innova now. Tata might be better off targetting Innova sales than Fortuner sales. Tata being Tata, needs to have considerable plus points in its vehicle to compete with Toyota. Perceptions are difficult to change.

Some prospective buyer may consider Innova and Aria. And even Bolero and Fortuner. There is no harm in someone considering all these, right? What matters is the value proposition for that buyer.

Having said that, why would we, as the forum, want the masses to chose function over form?
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Old 11th August 2010, 18:26   #1009
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Tata might be better off targetting Innova sales than Fortuner sales.
This is pure speculation wouldn't you agree? How do we know that TATA would be targeting Fortuner sales?

The Fortuner is 20+ on-road, there are cheaper Softroaders to target (if at all), why the Fortuner?
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Old 11th August 2010, 18:48   #1010
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Originally Posted by suman View Post
This is pure speculation wouldn't you agree?
Yes, pure conjecture. Or it could be dismissed as just my opinion.
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Originally Posted by suman View Post
How do we know that TATA would be targeting Fortuner sales?
Yes, we don't know. Not based on facts either.
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Originally Posted by suman View Post
The Fortuner is 20+ on-road, there are cheaper Softroaders to target (if at all), why the Fortuner?
As I said earlier, Fortuner has set the benchmarks. Hence it comes up in discussions. I have seen lots of comments on Aria vis-a-vis Fortuner in the forum.

If you see the below sales chart, which potential slice would you target? This is for the first 7 months of 2010.
Pics: Tata Motors unveil the Aria (Indicruze) at the Auto Expo 2010. Video: Pg 52-carsales2010janjuly-suv.jpg
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Old 11th August 2010, 19:28   #1011
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@ sbraj

From the perspective of pure domestic sales, yes Innova is a product that sells the most.

But then that is too narrow a target especially if one takes the Aria into a global context. Innovas arent sold in western markets, and had Tata aimed at making a cheaper or better Innova rival, they would miss a larger and more potent market.
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Old 11th August 2010, 22:33   #1012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbraj View Post
When I said Aria could be compared with Innova, I did not intend to say Aria needs to be priced like Innova. Aria may open up a new segment altogether. Hence it might be priced higher. Some number of potential Aria buyers might be gravitating towards Innova now. Tata might be better off targetting Innova sales than Fortuner sales. Tata being Tata, needs to have considerable plus points in its vehicle to compete with Toyota. Perceptions are difficult to change.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbraj View Post
As I said earlier, Fortuner has set the benchmarks. Hence it comes up in discussions. I have seen lots of comments on Aria vis-a-vis Fortuner in the forum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbraj View Post
If you see the below sales chart, which potential slice would you target? This is for the first 7 months of 2010.
Attachment 404018
@sbraj
Re-arranged a few snippets above from your previous posts:

From what we know so far ARIA is going to be priced between Innova and Fortuner. Conservative estimates of ARIA sales in India could be around 2500 a month. This is inline with a post from a TATA insider about TML having started ARIA production with about 75-90 (don't remember the exact no) vehicles a day.

If TML had to compete with Innova, (which they are not doing a good job at until now) in terms for form and function IMO they need to improve the Grande platform with some interior and exterior borrowings from new gen Safari and ARIA. And new gen Safari will also compete with Innova in similar price point albeit in a different form and function. I hope the new safari is a 7 seater to begin with

Quote:
Originally Posted by shortbread View Post
But then that is too narrow a target especially if one takes the Aria into a global context. Innovas arent sold in western markets, and had Tata aimed at making a cheaper or better Innova rival, they would miss a larger and more potent market.
+1.

The strategy of Toyota so far is to bring their South East Asian products to compete with Indian and Global products from competitors. That is why they have brought Innova and Fortuner. Even Honda has been successful with City which is not a global product. The reason for success? They are still better than competing INDIAN products at the similar pricepoint and provide better VFM when compared to global products from global auto majors.

Perception or not, the only chance TML (and M&M and other indian manufacturers) have is to continue to produce quality VFM products and try to change people's mind set and they get my vote for continuing to do that.
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Old 12th August 2010, 12:10   #1013
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@ sraj

I think crossover doesnt target any particular type of vehicle but all

So if you think Innova is a target for Aria due to kind of out line, so be the Fortuner with its 4x4 and may be the corolla

i didnt consider buying innova when I was evaluating cars for purchase because its just to functional car with no flesh, I wouldnt have settled for SUV too, they are too loud for my image, but I would always want to have their off Road behaviour, with no good choice I settled for a Sedan

So in my view ARIA retains the sofactication in looks with some bit of SUV stance but its not offending and underlines the SUV performance with 4x4,

I would definately consider it
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Old 12th August 2010, 13:37   #1014
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Quoting from another thread where Bhpian Flyingspur got a chance to TD an Aria -
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Originally Posted by flyingspur View Post
And compared to the Innova?

Shoot me for saying this, but I'd definitely say it eats the Innova, in terms of comfort, drive, equipment, everything. If they were priced similarly, I would never buy an Innova over this, except if third row seating was a critical deciding factor. I sat with the second row completely pushed back, but I'm quite sure that there would never be enough space for a 5'8"+ adult to get in there (you may consider this as a limitation of my quick review).
Do check that thread out for his impressions.
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Old 12th August 2010, 14:24   #1015
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I think the time's now ripe to close this thread, as first-drive impressions have started to trickle in, courtesy of fellow TBHPian, flyingspur.
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Old 17th August 2010, 16:26   #1016
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Yes, thread has gone stale after the test drive thread, launch date for ARAI is been notified to be in September, its coming.

Note from Mod : Please continue the Aria discussion in GTO's test-drive thread. Thanks

Last edited by GTO : 12th October 2010 at 01:20. Reason: Adding thread closure note
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