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Old 14th June 2010, 13:42   #346
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@echo

Tjet before the punto VGT makes more sense anyways. people are not as much disappointed with the MJD's performance as they are with linea's petrol variant.

makes sense to launch it first, and then come up with a better engined punto to rope in the enthusiasts who have a higher running and would opt for diesel.
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Old 14th June 2010, 13:59   #347
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Originally Posted by samyakmodi View Post
Tjet before the punto VGT makes more sense anyways...makes sense to launch it first, and then come up with a better engined punto to rope in the enthusiasts who have a higher running and would opt for diesel.
Totally agree. In fact it is the petrol version of the i20/polo were launched first and then followed by the diesel variants respectively. Launching the T-Jet in JUL and the VGT in SEPT is the way to go IMO.
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Old 14th June 2010, 14:32   #348
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yes, it does make sense.

i'm more frustrated with the ever changing launch dates
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Old 14th June 2010, 14:49   #349
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I have the opposite opinion. Punto has a lot more competition now - refreshed i20, Polo, Beat and the Figo - more coming in the form of Micra and Etios soon. Punto sales have definitely taken a hit in the last 2-3 months. We have already seen Fiat introducing new Petrol 1.2 variants. Since most of the new competition have diesel variants as well, it's now time to introduce new diesel variants.

On the other hand, Linea has lesser competition. Linea sales have been steady and hovering above the 1K mark. New competition will arrive soon in the form on the VW Polo sedan and the Etios sedan, but maybe it would be better to introduce the new Linea variants closer to the launch of the competition to take some limelight away from them.

In summary:
Punto - competition is already hot, need new variants now to renew the public's interest in the car.

Linea - Fiat has some time on it's hands before the competition strengthens. And when it does, it's good to have an ace (T-jet) up your sleeve.
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Old 14th June 2010, 15:30   #350
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Also think from the operations perspective. Between both Punto and Linea, the MJD far outsells the 1.4. Hence the capacity relevant for 1.4 FIRE would be highly underutiltized whereas the 1.3 MJD specific capacity would still be at a certain respectable utilization level.

By bringing the Punto VGT first will further skew this gap. Underutilized capacity is a opex for the company.
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Old 14th June 2010, 15:42   #351
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarrySky View Post
In summary:
Punto - competition is already hot, need new variants now to renew the public's interest in the car.

Linea - Fiat has some time on it's hands before the competition strengthens. And when it does, it's good to have an ace (T-jet) up your sleeve.
I completely agree with this. Comparative sells numbers (compared to respective market sizes) indicate that Fiat has a much more urgent need to "fix" Punto first and can afford to wait on Linea.

Another motivation could be that they can study the market response to a better engine spec'ed Punto (which has been the main crib about it from the enthusiasts) and then use the learning for pricing and spec'ing the Linea T-jet. The main complaints for both Punto and Linea are the same (i.e. the engine), and therefore, the market feedback and learning from one are also applicable to the other.

Since there is not a big urgency to "fix" Linea, Fiat can afford to wait and learn and apply the learning for Linea. They can't afford to wait like this for Punto.

Quote:
Originally Posted by p'arth View Post
Also think from the operations perspective. Between both Punto and Linea, the MJD far outsells the 1.4. Hence the capacity relevant for 1.4 FIRE would be highly underutiltized whereas the 1.3 MJD specific capacity would still be at a certain respectable utilization level.

By bringing the Punto VGT first will further skew this gap. Underutilized capacity is a opex for the company.
This is assuming that the production capacity for 1.4 FIRE and 1.3 MJD is the same. Who knows, it may not be the same. Fiat may have anticipated more demand for MJD and even more demand for MJD-VGT, and therefore, the capacities could also be designed in that proportion.

In fact, it may very well be the case that MJD-VGT capacity is underutilized and by introducing that engine in Punto, Fiat can leverage underutilized capacity at not much additional cost. Since 1.4 FIRE is common in Linea and Punto, the combined sells may be OK, but since VGT only goes in Linea, the specific line capacity may be underutilized.

So while I agree you have an important point from operations point of view, unless we know the planned capacities of both engine lines, we can't use this argument to conclude anything.

Last edited by Dr.AD : 14th June 2010 at 15:53.
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Old 14th June 2010, 17:21   #352
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The soon-to-launched wouldn’t be called the ‘Punto Sport’ a association central simplified when Indian Autos Blog inquired them about the car progressing this month.
The ‘powerful’ Fiat Punto, that would get VGT (Variable geometry turbocharger) chronicle of the 1.3 Multijet engine from the Linea, is approaching to be launched in the initial week of July, 2010. This would progress the motor fuel Punto’s energy from 76 bhp to 90 bhp.
Recently, Fiat launched latest various of the Fiat Punto in the Brazillian market. The latest Fiat Punto ‘Attractive’ has assimilated the ‘Active’, ‘Dynamic’ and ‘Emotion’ variants.
Could Fiat operate the same various name for the latest absolute motor fuel Punto?
Fiat could additionally operate this various name for the ‘powerful’ models, similar to the T-Jet Linea with a turbocharged 1.4l motor fuel engine building 120 bhp. The absolute Linea T-jet would be launched by August, 2010.
Originally appeared on:
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Last edited by jacksons : 14th June 2010 at 17:24.
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Old 14th June 2010, 17:52   #353
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i failed to consider the point that fiat anyways is making the 1.3 MJD with VGT. so plonking it in punto would not be that big a problem considering it is using it's current equipment only.
while in t-jet they have to start off with a new engine altogether.

this is purely just a contemplation.

but on a serious note, other than the afore mentioned point, it still makes more sense to come up with the linea t-jet more. (though i am waiting for the 90 bhp punto quiet desperately)
before jumping the gun consider these points from a company's point of view.

1. linea was introduced prior to punto, so a new model is now needed to push some more sales. 1k per month is definitely not a respectable figure considering the number of vehicles that are sold in the same segment pan india.
2. the major complaint from all the current and prospective linea customers was just one - the vehicle feels way too under powered!! these complaints were from the people who actually came across their prejudice about fiat's after sales service and history.
3. punto just a month or so back came up with new variants in its line up. sales are going up for it anyways because of the new variants. launching another model now, will do little to push the sales. and they would not have anything left to offer once the punto's sales become constant or stop dropping.

if i would have been in-charge of fiat india, i definitely would have launched the t-jet before the punto VGT. and once both the vehicles settle down comfortably in the market and it becomes un-exciting again -- then come up with a punto sport featuring the t-jet engine just to keep the fire of desire burning!!

now since i am not in-charge of fiat india, i really want that fiat should come up with a punto VGT for these reasons
1. it won't be difficult considering they are anyways making the same engine for different vehicle.
2. i have been waiting from 6 months to buy that car.

and this ofcourse is by assuming that fiat india has a lot of spare capacity to make the 1.3 MJD VGT engines to support the extra demand caused by the punto.

Last edited by samyakmodi : 14th June 2010 at 17:55.
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Old 14th June 2010, 18:03   #354
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Yesterday while going towards Bhor, I spotted 3 white Linea zooming past me. All were with temp reg and were cruising at almost 130-140. I hope those were production ready TJets. As they were moving and overtook me from left I could not see any emblem nor could see the pattern of the alloys at moving speed (Somebody had posted that new Linea would come with new alloy design) I had to turn right so could not follow them.
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Old 14th June 2010, 18:07   #355
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyWalker View Post
with FIAT, i will believe it when i see it. We have been hearing info from reliable sources that it would be here from Mar 2010.
+1, I do feel the same as the VGT Punto was supposed to come out in mid June and T-Jet was supposed to come by Mar 2010. Will wait till the FIAT comes out in press announcing the launches.

Also wonder whats taking such long time to introduce these models for FIAT and to add salt to the wounds, they do this when they need to take the competition head on. Atleast get the Punto VGT out as soon as possible.
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Old 14th June 2010, 19:19   #356
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Quote:
As per information from reliable source
T-Jet - end July 2010
Punto - 90 bhp - August/September
Now more confusion! IMHO, August/September is too late to introduce Punto. People are waiting with lot of patience for months to buy Punto-S. Also Micro will come in to picture from next month.

Visited TATA-FIAT showroom last Saturday in Bangalore. Sales person advised that FIAT will launch Punto mid of next month. Linea T-jet would be introduced mid of August.
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Old 14th June 2010, 20:39   #357
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Ideally, Fiat should've one year anniversary of Linea and Punto launch by launching these two new breeds. For whatever reasons, they have not been able to. Personally, I think they would wait for the onset of festive season to offer newer versions.
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Old 15th June 2010, 00:53   #358
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Originally Posted by NutsNBolts View Post
Ideally, Fiat should've one year anniversary of Linea and Punto launch by launching these two new breeds. For whatever reasons, they have not been able to. Personally, I think they would wait for the onset of festive season to offer newer versions.
My thoughts precisely.
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Old 15th June 2010, 01:16   #359
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there are pros and cons for both case (which to launch first). another reason to launch Punto sport first is that Punto still has one more ace up its sleeve (Punto t-jet). so the order could be Punto sport - linea T-jet - Punto T-jet
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Old 15th June 2010, 10:38   #360
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One thing that everybody is overlooking is the fact that the Manza is being manufactured at the same plant.

Manza (5000 units) + Punto & Linea (2300 units) = a total of 7300 units. The capacity though stands at 200,000 units for the factory is still not ramped up to that number. So I believe the plant is at optimal utilization. Hence the delay might actually be due to the expansion of the capacity.

On another note, the engine capacity stands at 300,000 units. Export of these engine stands at around 8000-10,000 units. The rest utilized by the local demand of manza, linea, punto, Vista. Vista 5000-6000 + Linea & Punto 2300 + Manza 5000 units. So there seems to be some genuine reason for the delay.

Also the suppliers needs to be ramped up for the capacity as well

Whatever the case may be, FIAT should have been prepared for this knowing that the Manza was being launched. With the Launch of the VGT Punto, it would be more economies of sale as the VGT is already running on the Manza and Linea.

FIAT is making reasonable amount of money from the Linea/Punto and good amount of money by way of the powertrains to Manza and Vista.

Last edited by nkrishnap : 15th June 2010 at 10:43.
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