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Old 17th January 2010, 09:57   #16
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1) This car is went on sale in 2002. Its too old now.

2) This car was withdrawn from US for poor sales. And reportedly again the car is made available in US from December 2009. It shows that VW could not sell the car in US for long.

3) Its like cheating Indians for the luxury badge. This car is here for just for image building ? It shares some components with earlier generation A8. They have already launched Toureag twice.

To me it looks like a pathetic move just for cheating. And many people think VW is the best brand. But to me, its just an old car being dumped here for image, and VW is taking a negative advantage of its image in India.

@GTO : I think a small group of people will think like : VW for Rs. 5 lakh ? Wow. But hey, what about maintenance cost ?
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Old 17th January 2010, 10:42   #17
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The car they provided here is the latest from VW.

The fact that it didn't sell in US does not matter in India. Camry sells well in US, but what happened in India? There are so many cars which sell well in India and which do not have a chance in US! I (personally) do not hold US as the guiding star in the auto industry!

Also, its too harsh to call it cheating!

Moreover VW will not pay a single person's salary by selling the Phaeton in India to dub it as a blind move for profit.

At the end of the day if you do not find it attractive, please do not buy it! But "it ain't cheatin boy!" (a booming dialog from some old flick which I can't remember)

Last edited by Trapezio : 17th January 2010 at 10:43.
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Old 17th January 2010, 11:04   #18
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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
To me it looks like a pathetic move just for cheating.
Well I think it is the Govt of India with its high duties that make such cars prohibitively expensive - the GoI may justify it saying that imports will not provide any jobs and hence high import duties (either as CBD or CKD).

On balance it seems that is not a bad idea, atleast in the car industry, as we now have all majors producing cars locally with locally sourced components mostly. The ones that are not viable to be locally produced but desired by a few (relative to the 1.2 billion we have here) has to be imported and price paid to meet their desires.

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Old 17th January 2010, 11:50   #19
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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
1) This car is went on sale in 2002. Its too old now.

2) This car was withdrawn from US for poor sales. And reportedly again the car is made available in US from December 2009. It shows that VW could not sell the car in US for long.

3) Its like cheating Indians for the luxury badge. This car is here for just for image building ? It shares some components with earlier generation A8. They have already launched Toureag twice.

To me it looks like a pathetic move just for cheating. And many people think VW is the best brand. But to me, its just an old car being dumped here for image, and VW is taking a negative advantage of its image in India.
You're making no sense with this post.

1) So what? If Maruti is allowed to sell the 800, why can't VW sell this one?

2) The American market has little relevance to ours. In any case, failure in one market is not an indication of the car itself. The Indica has bombed in the UK but is a fine car if you ask me for India.

3) This is so ridiculous, I don't know what to say. Cheating? Really? And VW has every right to build its image using whatever means they want to.

End of the day, you're free to buy an A8 or S-Class or the BMW 7. Its absurd to expect VW to do what you want them to.
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Old 17th January 2010, 12:04   #20
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Originally Posted by McLaren Rulez View Post
You're making no sense with this post.

1) So what? If Maruti is allowed to sell the 800, why can't VW sell this one?

2) The American market has little relevance to ours. In any case, failure in one market is not an indication of the car itself. The Indica has bombed in the UK but is a fine car if you ask me for India.

3) This is so ridiculous, I don't know what to say. Cheating? Really? And VW has every right to build its image using whatever means they want to.

End of the day, you're free to buy an A8 or S-Class or the BMW 7. Its absurd to expect VW to do what you want them to.
1) Cost ? After paying Rs. 75 lakh what one gets is an old model loosely based on earlier generation A8. You pay much less for M800. Fact is, the competition offers better products. And the attitude is just for brand building by selling an old product for a high cost.

2) We cannot compare Indian market with American market, that is right. Apart from taxation, many things are different. But my point is different. Phaeton was a luxury attempt by VW, and in US the car was withdrawn as it was not upto the mark as compared to its competition even back in 2002. Also, the badge played its role. So its not as good as competition any given day.

3) Its the attitude why they are bringing it here. Why now, why not an year earlier ? The fact that they are bringing this up just before Polo proves that they in either way want to build image, which IMO is not good considering what VW is going to offer either in Phaeton or Polo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by diffsoft View Post
Well I think it is the Govt of India with its high duties that make such cars prohibitively expensive - the GoI may justify it saying that imports will not provide any jobs and hence high import duties (either as CBD or CKD).
Yes, duties play their role, agreed. Now look at other side and reason why they are bringing this car here. A car loosely based on earlier gen A8 and costing Rs. 75 lakh is not good IMHO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trapezio View Post
The car they provided here is the latest from VW.

Also, its too harsh to call it cheating!

At the end of the day if you do not find it attractive, please do not buy it! But "it ain't cheatin boy!" (a booming dialog from some old flick which I can't remember)
This is not latest. It hit streets in 2002, count in 2 years in development so its development started way back. And its not a good idea to give customers a product that is 8 years old at such high price. Why not focus on reducing price of spares ? How about Jetta 1.8 TSi ? Or giving a 4 cylinder 1.2 in Polo which will definitely be better than the three cylinders ?

May be, but I just hate motive behind this car being launched in India.
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Old 17th January 2010, 16:32   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
1) This car is went on sale in 2002. Its too old now.

2) This car was withdrawn from US for poor sales. And reportedly again the car is made available in US from December 2009. It shows that VW could not sell the car in US for long.

3) Its like cheating Indians for the luxury badge. This car is here for just for image building ? It shares some components with earlier generation A8. They have already launched Toureag twice.

To me it looks like a pathetic move just for cheating. And many people think VW is the best brand. But to me, its just an old car being dumped here for image, and VW is taking a negative advantage of its image in India.

@GTO : I think a small group of people will think like : VW for Rs. 5 lakh ? Wow. But hey, what about maintenance cost ?
The Phaeton is a fantastic car and is much better than the S, 7 or A8. The reason why it did not sell in the US is that the US (like India) is a very brand conscious county. The Phaeton is related more closely to the Bentley Flying Spur than the Audi A8. Think that for 75L, VW is selling the Bentley in a VW Passat shaped body. It is a great sleeper.

Did you know that Ferdinand Piech set 10 parameters for the Phaeton Engineers when it was being devised. These were meant to make the Phaeton the best car in the world. Period.

I dont remember them all but here is the one that stuck to my memory. The Phaeton should be capable of being driven all day at 300 kilometres per hour with an exterior temperature of 50 °C while keeping the interior temperature at 22 °C.

My assumption is that this was probably meany for the W12 engine but you can imagine the engineering that went into creating this masterpiece.
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Old 17th January 2010, 18:56   #22
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The Phaeton shares some of its underpinnings with the Bentley Continental. However this is a Car that will make tremendous sense when buying it used. That is still some years down the line in India, however have a look at this article, a comparison of a used Phaeton against the new Passat:

VWvortex Forums: UK Autocar article: Used Phaeton v new Passat online?

I know which one I would buy. Which one would you buy?

Dont miss the last line of the autocar article: Passat is a car that exists because it needs to. The Phaeton exists because someone wanted it to.
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Old 17th January 2010, 19:10   #23
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Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008 View Post
Fortunately, for the shareholders of the company, you are not in charge of pricing.
......and for the sake, most of us Indians!
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Old 17th January 2010, 21:46   #24
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I feel this is a bad move by VW. The Phaeton for one is too understated and in India people want flashy cars at that pricerange. Second, no diesel. Third...its OLD. has been on the international market for ages.

They should have gone ahead and launched the brilliant VW CC priced against the 3 series and the brilliant Tiguan priced just above a CRV.

VW is not trying to sell the PHAETON as pointed out by GTO, but is trying to gain an image in the minds of indian people, a company that has the technology to make high end luxury cars can also make better small cars.

now imagine maruti/tata coming up with a 30 lakh+ car, we can predict the best quality maruti can offer currently in indian market, the launch / showcasing of expensive and better cars literally means that if a company can produce a high quality expensive car, then it can definately launch some power packed small cars with some similar technologies.
Now the million $ question is "Can Maruti/Tata (atleast) showcase such Quality and Technology?"
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Old 17th January 2010, 22:08   #25
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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
1)
@GTO : I think a small group of people will think like : VW for Rs. 5 lakh ? Wow. But hey, what about maintenance cost ?
This the same thought I got and i think many people might think of maintenance cost.For example even some late 90's E class are sold for just 5 lakh rupees(source ACI) but many people shy away from that due maintenance.India maintenance is something which most of them think twice before they buy.
I feel 75 Lakh for Phaeton is high but when you consider it has an CBU the they have priced it well,because base V6 cost 45000 pounds and then multiple with Rs 80 and add 110% you will end 60 thousand more than what the price is they have given.
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Old 18th January 2010, 07:24   #26
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VW should wait for its next model change and then release it in india.
It might have decent sales.
this one looks plain boring and an average joe version of the a8 which again is Very boring.
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Old 18th January 2010, 10:37   #27
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
The Phaeton is not here to sell, and VW very well knows that it won't. The sole purpose of the 75 lakh Phaeton is to raise the value of the VW brand in the market. Think about it, super cool Beetle, 75 lakh luxury car, 60 lakh Touareg......and last, a 5 lakh rupee hatch. "Wow, I want a VW".

That's the plan atleast.
Couldn't agree more. But at some point they will expect atleast some volume and save them the shame of negative publicity that will be received for launching the biggest flop. They can't sell the a8 at this pricing how do they expect this to even get double digit sales! I think a 60ish pricing will be good
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Old 18th January 2010, 13:15   #28
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VW have had problems sellng the car right from the start. A lot went to employees at heavily discounted rates. Many were offered as government limo's at "influential" prices - mainly - germany, austria, e. europe, hong kong and China.

Some were given to dealer as 'demo's" - ie use it and then flog is cheap
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Old 18th January 2010, 18:09   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
Its like cheating Indians for the luxury badge.
Quote:
To me it looks like a pathetic move just for cheating.
Aaggoswami, please exercise some discretion and keep the comments realistic. It's a free market and anyone is free to sell whatever they want. As long as emissions / safety / ARAI regulations are met.

We do have many cars on sale in India, some rather successful, that are over 10 years old. Heck, there's also the 25 year old 800 and the 60 year old Ambassador!
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Old 18th January 2010, 18:17   #30
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Just because you discovered the business trick, doesn't mean that you should declare it a failure doomed decision, just because you don't have the power to execute the same.
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